More players for next season . (15 Viewers)

[V]

I think people are obsessed with us having many Italians in our team. I do agree that should be the case if possible but I would still take quality over Nationality any day of the week. And both Samuel and Heinze would be much better choices for the next 4,5 years.

Barzagli is overrated IMO, he is talented and can become someone great but people are thinking too much of him. I mean he doesn't have CL experience, plays for a mid-table team and "leads" their defense. A defense which has had a negative goal difference last season -2 for crying out loud!!! 52 goals conceded!! I don't need excuses, in this case the numbers speak for themselves. Even more so they are on a good way of matching that record as they already have 30 goals conceded after 24 games.

7,8 mil and it's still somewhat of a gamble.

 

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[Marc]

I think people are obsessed with us having many Italians in our team. I do agree that should be the case if possible but I would still take quality over Nationality any day of the week. And both Samuel and Heinze would be much better choices for the next 4,5 years.

Barzagli is overrated IMO, he is talented and can become someone great but people are thinking too much of him. I mean he doesn't have CL experience, plays for a mid-table team and "leads" their defense. A defense which has had a negative goal difference last season -2 for crying out loud!!! 52 goals conceded!! I don't need excuses, in this case the numbers speak for themselves. Even more so they are on a good way of matching that record as they already have 30 goals conceded after 24 games.

7,8 mil and it's still somewhat of a gamble.

Agreed on all points. Barzagli has a long way to go before he can lead Juventus and Italy´s defense, if he could lead it in the first place.....

 

[tonykart]

Palermo plays an aggressive style. That is what happens when teams try to play "entertaining" football in the serie a. Samuel isn't even starting for inter milan and that is all I have to say. Heinze plays for Man United who don't even play defense. His adjustment is going to be great. Heinze is a good SB, but it will take him time to adjust to a completely different style of play in a completely different team philosophy and league that he is used to. SB would be a quick translation, but CB is much more complex in Serie A than in the Premiership. Italians don't just blindly attack CF's coming at them. It is just a whole different philosophy. Samuel would be the better option here, but like I said he doesn't even start for inter and he plays for Inter.

I think people want to make an easy and safe choice and get a pretty good defender for a pretty good price, when now is the time, IMO, to go after a potentially great player for a big price. We have plenty of positions to fill, but this position is not one to get cheap on.

 

[tonykart]

Agreed on all points. Barzagli has a long way to go before he can lead Juventus and Italy´s defense, if he could lead it in the first place.....

So say Milan takes a chance on him (i really don't know how big of a chance it could really be), he ends up being everything he is supposed to be. Best defender in Italy, Leader of the Azzurri and a staple for their defense for years to come. If he fails and ends up being awful (doubt it) they wasted 1 transfer period, can get some of their money back and move on. If he stays the same (solid, smart and talented) then they might have paid a bit too much, but still have a solid, smart and talented defender on the pitch for years to come. I think some people just like to be negative and choose proven "good" CB's that are backups for really good teams, instead of taking a chance on someone who could be great. He shows the promise and he is very solid at the very least. What is the problem. We can get a deal on a lot of good CB's, what is the point for a team in our position to do that now?

I wonder if Lippi was coaching Juventus if he would want him on his team? I value his opinion an awful lot.

 

[Tobias]

Are we interested in GUILY?

 

[V]

Palermo plays an aggressive style. That is what happens when teams try to play "entertaining" football in the serie a. Samuel isn't even starting for inter milan and that is all I have to say. Heinze plays for Man United who don't even play defense. His adjustment is going to be great. Heinze is a good SB, but it will take him time to adjust to a completely different style of play in a completely different team philosophy and league that he is used to. SB would be a quick translation, but CB is much more complex in Serie A than in the Premiership. Italians don't just blindly attack CF's coming at them. It is just a whole different philosophy. Samuel would be the better option here, but like I said he doesn't even start for inter and he plays for Inter.

I think people want to make an easy and safe choice and get a pretty good defender for a pretty good price, when now is the time, IMO, to go after a potentially great player for a big price. We have plenty of positions to fill, but this position is not one to get cheap on.

Samuel has made 2 very wrong career choices in a row, Real Madrid and Inter. I'm not saying this because I hate those clubs, but they were just not the clubs right for him ATM. He came to Real as the saviour of their defense, exactly like Cannavaro, and flunked. Not because he "lost" it but because it was a team in distress, same as it is now. Then to revive his career he went to Inter, that speaks for itself. It's a poorly managed club with a blind idiot president, it's not a coincedence so many talents fail in Inter. I have absolutelly no doubt in Samuel's ability, whom I considered to be one of the best cb's while he was in Roma. He just needs a club to find himself.

Heinze is class, pure and simple. He's not playing at Man U right now because there are Rio and Vidic there, two great cb's who are playing excellently. Even when he did play he played as left back, where now there's Evra. Heinze was just a little unlucky with his time in Man U. If I'm not mistaken injuries have not spared him also.

I do agree defense is not the department to be cheap on, but it's also not the one to be insane on. Everything over 10mil is drastically expensive for a still unproven player. That's the bottom line, I don't care if he's Italian.

Just for the record, the Criscito deal was a little steep also, I wasn't pleased with it.

 

[RAMI-N]

Just for the record, the Criscito deal was a little steep also, I wasn't pleased with it.

too steep IMO

 

[Marc]

So say Milan takes a chance on him (i really don't know how big of a chance it could really be), he ends up being everything he is supposed to be. Best defender in Italy, Leader of the Azzurri and a staple for their defense for years to come. If he fails and ends up being awful (doubt it) they wasted 1 transfer period, can get some of their money back and move on. If he stays the same (solid, smart and talented) then they might have paid a bit too much, but still have a solid, smart and talented defender on the pitch for years to come. I think some people just like to be negative and choose proven "good" CB's that are backups for really good teams, instead of taking a chance on someone who could be great. He shows the promise and he is very solid at the very least. What is the problem. We can get a deal on a lot of good CB's, what is the point for a team in our position to do that now?

I wonder if Lippi was coaching Juventus if he would want him on his team? I value his opinion an awful lot.

You missed my point. My point is that Milan can afford this transfer more than we do. What if we splash the cash on Barzagli and we have only 10 more millions to spend. Don´t you think we have other departments to improve besides CB position??

And what if we end up with another Legrottaglie in the squad?? These are big risks that we cannot afford to take in this moment....

 

[tonykart]

Samuel has made 2 very wrong career choices in a row, Real Madrid and Inter. I'm not saying this because I hate those clubs, but they were just not the clubs right for him ATM. He came to Real as the saviour of their defense, exactly like Cannavaro, and flunked. Not because he "lost" it but because it was a team in distress, same as it is now. Then to revive his career he went to Inter, that speaks for itself. It's a poorly managed club with a blind idiot president, it's not a coincedence so many talents fail in Inter. I have absolutelly no doubt in Samuel's ability, whom I considered to be one of the best cb's while he was in Roma. He just needs a club to find himself.

Heinze is class, pure and simple. He's not playing at Man U right now because there are Rio and Vidic there, two great cb's who are playing excellently. Even when he did play he played as left back, where now there's Evra. Heinze was just a little unlucky with his time in Man U. If I'm not mistaken injuries have not spared him also.

I do agree defense is not the department to be cheap on, but it's also not the one to be insane on. Everything over 10mil is drastically expensive for a still unproven player. That's the bottom line, I don't care if he's Italian.

Just for the record, the Criscito deal was a little steep also, I wasn't pleased with it.

So Samuel has failed to achieve at two separate clubs, yet Barzagli has yet to fail at a club. But, you sell Barza short because of this. Samuel is no better physically and his experience is questionable. He also has jumped through a lot of teams and I always question that. His situation is not easy to defend I am suprised you tried. And not to mention your arguments on his behalf probably made your point less solid. Heinze was not able to crack into the CB role on a premiership side that plays poor defense. English teams don't play good defense and in my opinion taking a defender from an EPL team does not exactly make me feel comfortable. Like I said it is a huge adjustment going from aggressive defensive play in the EPL to intelligent collapsing team defense in Serie A. He would only suit us as a side back at this point in my opinion.

Unproven is not a fair description of Barza. He is Solid, Smart and Talented. Perhaps you mean he is uproven because he is yet to reach his peak. These high expectations are on him for a reason and many nobles from the football world see him in this light. Maybe you think we should save 12-15M (which is what he could cost) on him and spend the money on Samuel or Heinze, but I strongly think that would be considered skimping a few Mil on a potentialy great player. He isn't 28 and has played for three good teams and failed at two. He is 25, played for the world cup champions, and is captain of a defense lacking worthy couterparts (besides Zaccardo). He hasn't gotten his chance, has everything to prove and has talent, intelligence and age working in his favor.

Very true he could end up never reaching the peak people think he will, and that wouldn't be so bad because that peak is very high. However, if he does reach that peak it will be money more than well spent. Now is the time. We need to fill our roster with quality not quantity. And we need to take a chance on Barza.

my opinion

 

[tonykart]

You missed my point. My point is that Milan can afford this transfer more than we do. What if we splash the cash on Barzagli and we have only 10 more millions to spend. Don´t you think we have other departments to improve besides CB position??

And what if we end up with another Legrottaglie in the squad?? These are big risks that we cannot afford to take in this moment....

If we paid 15M for Barza we would have plenty of cash to spend elsewhere. I also said 20M was too high. Pizarro and Metzelder are free so there is no excuse to not sign them. Kovac and Boumsong are good backups and could fill in when neccessary. Chiellini, Grygera and Balzaretti are a good group of SB's to get us to the next transfer window. Zebina might stay, he might go, but if he stays he is a good sub. Ljunberg will be a free transfer as well and would be a very good asset to the team.

After this we need 1 CMF/DMF and 1 CF in my opinnion.

 

[RAMI-N]

But as Mark said, we cant take this risk coz of our tight budget !!!
we cant afford another Legro !
remember how Legro was doing wonders in Chievo? look at him now

 

[tonykart]

according to a source on these forums we have 35M euro to work with next year. If we spend 15M on Barza, pickup Metzelder, Pizarro and Ljunberg we will have 19M euro to spend on a CMF and CF. Plus, the money from the Trez sale who is undoubtedly leaving at the end of the year and Camo may leave as well giving us more money to work with. I don't see the problem.

 

[tonykart]

But as Mark said, we cant take this risk coz of our tight budget !!!
we cant afford another Legro !
remember how Legro was doing wonders in Chievo? look at him now

Dont compare Barza to Legro

 

[V]

So Samuel has failed to achieve at two separate clubs, yet Barzagli has yet to fail at a club. But, you sell Barza short because of this. Samuel is no better physically and his experience is questionable. He also has jumped through a lot of teams and I always question that. His situation is not easy to defend I am suprised you tried. And not to mention your arguments on his behalf probably made your point less solid. Heinze was not able to crack into the CB role on a premiership side that plays poor defense. English teams don't play good defense and in my opinion taking a defender from an EPL team does not exactly make me feel comfortable. Like I said it is a huge adjustment going from aggressive defensive play in the EPL to intelligent collapsing team defense in Serie A. He would only suit us as a side back at this point in my opinion.

Yes but Samuel has won a Scudetto with Roma, which is, I hate to say it as I remember Totti's words, worth like 3 Scudetto's with Juventus or Milan. Samuel is a world class centre back, proven and experienced in ALL competitions. So Cannavaro who has failed at 2 different clubs now is also a failure, bad defender, what is he/they? They are still world class players, you don't loose quality like that but you gotta gain it.

Oh and Barzagli is yet to fail? Are you freaking kidding me? What has he achieved anyway? Over a hundred goals in his net for 2 seasons?

And your opinion on EPL is a complete stereotype and is complete nonsense. Ferdinand and Vidic would walk into any defense at the world this moment, not to mention John Terry for example. There are good defenders outside of Serie A.

Unproven is not a fair description of Barza. He is Solid, Smart and Talented. Perhaps you mean he is uproven because he is yet to reach his peak. These high expectations are on him for a reason and many nobles from the football world see him in this light. Maybe you think we should save 12-15M (which is what he could cost) on him and spend the money on Samuel or Heinze, but I strongly think that would be considered skimping a few Mil on a potentialy great player. He isn't 28 and has played for three good teams and failed at two. He is 25, played for the world cup champions, and is captain of a defense lacking worthy couterparts (besides Zaccardo). He hasn't gotten his chance, has everything to prove and has talent, intelligence and age working in his favor.

Very true he could end up never reaching the peak people think he will, and that wouldn't be so bad because that peak is very high. However, if he does reach that peak it will be money more than well spent. Now is the time. We need to fill our roster with quality not quantity. And we need to take a chance on Barza.

my opinion

I'm sorry but it's a fair description, he is unproven in every single sense of the word. Barza=potential, that's all and potential is not always fullfilled.

Yes, spending reasonable money on proven players for our weakest department is what we should be doing. We are not in a position to take a gamble on anyone.

And please don't play that WC card, Italy would have been champions with or without him, he wasn't exactly crucial.

 

[tonykart]

but it shows how much the best coach in the world thought of him. There are many defender in Italy that could have had that spot.

 

[Marc]

but it shows how much the best coach in the world thought of him. There are many defender in Italy that could have had that spot.

For example who??

 

[Falafel]

For example who??

cesare bovo

 

[V]

but it shows how much the best coach in the world thought of him. There are many defender in Italy that could have had that spot.

Like who? Nesta, Cannavaro were brought with a cemented place, Materazzi was third choice, Barzagli was there to fill up a spot.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate him or think he sucks, but I do belive people desperatelly want the new Nesta and they want him to be that for us so badly. I feel it's a gamble not worth taking in this point in time.

 

[RAMI-N]

Dont compare Barza to Legro

why not?!

 

[Marc]

according to a source on these forums we have 35M euro to work with next year. If we spend 15M on Barza, pickup Metzelder, Pizarro and Ljunberg we will have 19M euro to spend on a CMF and CF. Plus, the money from the Trez sale who is undoubtedly leaving at the end of the year and Camo may leave as well giving us more money to work with. I don't see the problem.

We don´t know how much we will spend yet, these are only rumours. And what´s the point in getting money from Camoranesi and Trezeguet when we will have to fill their shoes, so that bascially leaves us at the same point.

cesare bovo

Nice try.