Moment of Clarity (6 Viewers)

[Maresca]

Happy that finaly we all agree

 

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[ßöмßäяðîëя]

And we know who to thank dont we?

Hey, I said in the first post it was not meant to be a religious debate.

 

[Rami]

Hey, I said in the first post it was not meant to be a religious debate.

aha and you can honestly say that you did not see all this coming? Anyways its all good, I have no problem discussing all this....

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I didn't say that, I just said I didn't start it to make a huge problem, I just wanted to state something that I thought about, that's it.

It's all good, I have pretty much stayed out of all of it.

 

[Zé Tahir]

I started reading Zé Tahir's long post, but after I realised the guy was proving Jesus couldn't have been God's son, I had had enough. Believing Christ was God's son is a huge pillar of christian belief. You can't rationally explain that, you have to believe it. So please don't come along with "evidence" Jesus couldn't have been God's son, because we all know it's impossible to give birth when there hasn't been sex in the first place.

You should finish reading it, it touches all kinds of points, not just rational explainations.

 

[Eddy]

Why are people here justifying that "Christians" believe that Jesus is the son of god..It is only the Catholics, the other are different..I would get into more detail but Im tired, just celebrated christmas, drank too much and..goodnight

 

[Snoop]

The reason u cannot have a proper discussion with us Snoopy is because the statements you make are pulled out of your ass and have no facts or any valid arguments behind it.....once you start discussing things in a better fashion hostility will go down.....like i said earlier in some post ...you cant just walk up to a Hindu and tell him cows arent shit, your just looking for trouble if you do that.....

I wouldn't or didn't tell you you can't belive in Islam because Muhammad is a shit. Did I say something that offensive?no. I told you you are acting like a brainwashed because you are turning agressive very fast when someone tells you something that you don't won't to hear.

I told you in PM to relax,and ignore the insults if there is one,but you started to insult me.not just that,Tahir also agreed with you(when you called me a child), that's I didn't like to see from him,he is one of the guys I like here.anyway,I don't have anything against anyone Because of his religion,If I have something it is against Islam (the religion),is that offensive?? that's a honest opinion from me,that is something most of the users have against a religion,but they don't dare to say it loud.

 

[Snoop]

Why are people here justifying that "Christians" believe that Jesus is the son of god..It is only the Catholics, the other are different..I would get into more detail but Im tired, just celebrated christmas, drank too much and..goodnight

Huh?? I agree you are tired,you need to sleep

I am Orthodox,not catholic.and yes we beilive he is the Son of God.

 

[Hambon]

I wouldn't or didn't tell you you can't belive in Islam because Muhammad is a shit. Did I say something that offensive?no. I told you you are acting like a brainwashed because you are turning agressive very fast when someone tells you something that you don't won't to hear.

I told you in PM to relax,and ignore the insults if there is one,but you started to insult me.not just that,Tahir also agreed with you(when you called me a child), that's I didn't like to see from him,he is one of the guys I like here.anyway,I don't have anything against anyone Because of his religion,If I have something it is against Islam (the religion),is that offensive?? that's a honest opinion from me,that is something most of the users have against a religion,but they don't dare to say it loud.

Read that out loud and tell me snoopy if you are not looking for trouble ??? How would u like us to react to those comments?? Those types of remarks could get your ass in some serious trouble if they are said publicly .....but it seems to me your an Uneducated fool living in your mama's house protected by your PC screen...so u can get away with your stupid remarks......get educated and then bring it...in the mean while dont sing your bullshit out here aight..

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I'm sorry if I hinted that, but I didn't say Islam promoted violence. I said violence was justifiable for muslims, but it isn't for christians. As for the prosecution argument: I can very well understand Mohammed's humanity in using violence, but Jesus also went through prosecution and never used violence. He tells us to turn the other cheek.

I started reading Zé Tahir's long post, but after I realised the guy was proving Jesus couldn't have been God's son, I had had enough. Believing Christ was God's son is a huge pillar of christian belief. You can't rationally explain that, you have to believe it. So please don't come along with "evidence" Jesus couldn't have been God's son, because we all know it's impossible to give birth when there hasn't been sex in the first place.

Again it is very disturbing to view "Christianity" as an independent dogma from it's hebraic roots. Jesus was jewish. He never called his disciples christians. One of the reasons why Jesus was more of a civil disobedient is because he was more of a reformer than an innovator in his society. So to say Jesus didn't endorse the torah is blasphemous, he was a rabbi for crying out loud. I would suggest to browse this if you have some time http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/

 

[GordoDeCentral]

to those interested in more rational theology i have these two links sorry for not summarizing , i tried to but i felt i wasn't doing them justice, especially the second one, have fun reading:

http://www.homestead.com/philofreligion/files/Jewislam.html
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/pg1.htm

 

[Vinman]

Here is a question for people of the Muslim faith...

This may be a silly question, but since I dont know all the in's and out's of the religion, I honestly don't know the answer to this...

do you guys believe there is a satan, and is there mention of him in the Quran ??

I know that we (Christians) believe he exists, and there are enough mentions about him in the Bible

 

[Zé Tahir]

Here is a question for people of the Muslim faith...

This may be a silly question, but since I dont know all the in's and out's of the religion, I honestly don't know the answer to this...

do you guys believe there is a satan, and is there mention of him in the Quran ??

I know that we (Christians) believe he exists, and there are enough mentions about him in the Bible

We don't believe in Satan as a different being that exists. But that the absense of God is Satan. If you something bad it's the "satan" in you that is controlling you. This sums up our belief pretty good:

With regard to Satan, it should be remembered that in man's nature and composition there have been included two forces and they are both opposed to each other and it is so in order for a person to be tried and tested and, with a successful outcome, to become deserving of God 's nearness . Of the two forces, one pulls man towards goodness and the other invites man towards evil. The force that pulls towards goodness is called 'malk' or 'angel' and the force which invites towards evil is called 'Satan'. In other words, you can understand it like this, that there are two forces which work on a person, one calls towards good (dc'i khair) , and the other towards bad (dc'i shar) . Someone may not like the use of the terms 'angel ' and 'Satan', but he wouldn't be able to deny the existence of these two types of forceswithin man. God never intended any evil. God only does what is good.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

We don't believe in Satan as a different being that exists. But that the absense of God is Satan. If you something bad it's the "satan" in you that is controlling you. This sums up our belief pretty good:

mmh thats not what 99% of muslims believe, Satan(shaytan) is clearly mentioned in the Quran. He was too arrogant to bow to adam since he(satan) was made of fire and Adam of clay. His actions warranted him eternal damnation. As far as demons, the subject is not as clear cut; some believe they're rebellious Jin, others see them as an independent form.

 

[HelterSkelter]

Altair is right about satan or iblees as he his known to us.He was Allah's favourite angel,but when he refused to bow infront of Adam,he was banished forever.I do think Satan has an independent form.as for the subject of Jinns,well yes they do exist and it has been mentioned in the Qur'aan.There are both good and evil demons.i belive they do have an independent form,but one where they can alter their outlook and can be visible to the naked eye in a different form rather than their own natural form.

and yes,it wasnt a typing error.Satan WAS an angel.

 

[LoScoglio]

I actually had a bit of the opposite impression myself, IMO, and you're talking to someone who grew up Catholic as a kid.

Take a look at what happened to Jerusalem. Under Islamic rule, things were far more open and peaceable than when it was under Christian rule, where pretty much any non-Christian was executed -- man, woman or child. I think any Christian who thinks that their religious lineage has cleaner hands than a religion like Islam really needs to do some introspection and learn more about the history of their Church, IMO. It's bogus information like this that continues to spread misunderstanding and irrational intolerance.

I just don't think you can make generalizations like that.

I can and I will. You see when I say violence is justifiable for muslims that in no way means they will apply that violence whenever they can. Catholics have never been tolerant ever since they became the religion of the state in the Western Roman Empire, but christian belief has always judged violence. Christians disobeyed their religion. So you see, the last thing I'm thinking is that our Church has cleaner hands. In fact I would go as far as saying the attitude of the Catholic Church has been absolutely appalling in previous times.

 

[LoScoglio]

Saying Muhammad did this while Jesus did not or vice versa is just disgraceful, as both are infallable and believe it or not shared almost, if not all, beliefs. I as a Muslim would never think comparing two prophets

QUOTE]

I've been saying all along they christianity and Islam are very much alike. But it's a fact christianity judged violence for whatever reason, whereas Islam does not. Does that mean muslims are more violent than christians? No the past has shown us it doesn't.

 

[Hambon]

Altair is right about satan or iblees as he his known to us.He was Allah's favourite angel,but when he refused to bow infront of Adam,he was banished forever.I do think Satan has an independent form.as for the subject of Jinns,well yes they do exist and it has been mentioned in the Qur'aan.There are both good and evil demons.i belive they do have an independent form,but one where they can alter their outlook and can be visible to the naked eye in a different form rather than their own natural form.

and yes,it wasnt a typing error.Satan WAS an angel.

spot on axlrose....he was an angel and refused to bow to man "Prophet Adam" when Allah commanded all angels to bow. Ever since then him and his subjects have been banished

 

[LoScoglio]

Altair is right about satan or iblees as he his known to us.He was Allah's favourite angel,but when he refused to bow infront of Adam,he was banished forever.I do think Satan has an independent form.as for the subject of Jinns,well yes they do exist and it has been mentioned in the Qur'aan.There are both good and evil demons.i belive they do have an independent form,but one where they can alter their outlook and can be visible to the naked eye in a different form rather than their own natural form.

and yes,it wasnt a typing error.Satan WAS an angel.

Well, that's the exact same story christians believe in. But TBH all three Holy Books are more or less the same. Christians simply took the Thora and Muslims put together a mélange. I may sound disrespectful and I apologise for that, but that's what all three of them are really: the same book. Which makes mutual hate even more ridiculous.

 

[Rami]

We don't believe in Satan as a different being that exists. But that the absense of God is Satan. If you something bad it's the "satan" in you that is controlling you. This sums up our belief pretty good:

Ze Satan exist physically (or lack of better word), and was mentioned in the Quran as a creature created by god but was disobedient..there are countless (easily over 200) mentioning him...that goes to you vinnie also