Moment of Clarity (13 Viewers)

[Holygr4le]

For me organized religion is a crock of shit. No offense to anyone intended

But you approve of disorganized religion…, or???

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Enron]

Probably should have read the rest of the post.

 

[Holygr4le]

Probably should have read the rest of the post.

I did. But since this is quite a religious thread I read it from the bottom and right to left. Made no sense. Did I do it wrong?

 

[Enron]

I dont know. I typed it on a Aramaic keyboard and didnt look at the screen the whole time. I have know idea what it says.

 

[Holygr4le]

I dont know. I typed it on a Aramaic keyboard and didnt look at the screen the whole time. I have know idea what it says.

I did not understand 100% of it but if you read between the lines it says something about a great god called Benitez with 11 angels all on earth. God son was Hyypiä or something. Does that make sense to you?

 

[Enron]

I did not understand 100% of it but if you read between the lines it says something about a great god called Benitez with 11 angels all on earth. God son was Hyypiä or something. Does that make sense to you?

Its becoming clearer.

 

[LoScoglio]

Although I have never chosen to react before and although I mostly read only Juve related threads, this thread caught my eye and I would like to have my say in it.

First off I don't want to offend anyone. If people are offended with what I'm going to say now, I want to make it perfectly clear that that wasn't my intention. Since religious discussions are always going to be inflammable, I'll try to keep as neutral as possible towards other religions and beliefs.

What has become clear in this thread is that Islam simply does not acknowledge the fact, yes fact, God isn't a certainty. Moreover, stating you're not sure about God's existence is deemed a personal insult. To defend that rather agressive opinion we are told it says so in the Qu'raan. Of course you couldn't challenge the Qu'raan either and of course the Qu'raan was written by Allah. We aren't allowed to doubt that either.

Now I happen to be studying history at my university and I happen to be studying the Islam. What strikes me most is that Mohammed does have the intention of killing the unfaithful. Unlike christians, muslims were very intolerant at the beginning. Killing has always been judged by christians, but it hasn't been by muslims. Perhaps we could understand this very agressive muslim attitude of some people on this forum now. Later on, Islam would prove to be a far more tolerant religion than catholicism though and one would expect that it would still be today.

But I do believe the line has been crossed on this forum. When one isn't allowed to even doubt God's existence and one is deemed harsh, stupid and offensive for doing so, that's when free will is abolished. That's when extreme fundamentalism is born. That's when religion forms a big threat. That's when the most fundamental right is brutally attacked: your right to think whatever you want.

 

[Holygr4le]

Although I have never chosen to react before and although I mostly read only Juve related threads, this thread caught my eye and I would like to have my say in it.

First off I don't want to offend anyone. If people are offended with what I'm going to say now, I want to make it perfectly clear that that wasn't my intention. Since religious discussions are always going to be inflammable, I'll try to keep as neutral as possible towards other religions and beliefs.

What has become clear in this thread is that Islam simply does not acknowledge the fact, yes fact, God isn't a certainty. Moreover, stating you're not sure about God's existence is deemed a personal insult. To defend that rather agressive opinion we are told it says so in the Qu'raan. Of course you couldn't challenge the Qu'raan either and of course the Qu'raan was written by Allah. We aren't allowed to doubt that either.

Now I happen to be studying history at my university and I happen to be studying the Islam. What strikes me most is that Mohammed does have the intention of killing the unfaithful. Unlike christians, muslims were very intolerant at the beginning. Killing has always been judged by christians, but it hasn't been by muslims. Perhaps we could understand this very agressive muslim attitude of some people on this forum now. Later on, Islam would prove to be a far more tolerant religion than catholicism though and one would expect that it would still be today.

But I do believe the line has been crossed on this forum. When one isn't allowed to even doubt God's existence and one is deemed harsh, stupid and offensive for doing so, that's when free will is abolished. That's when extreme fundamentalism is born. That's when religion forms a big threat. That's when the most fundamental right is brutally attacked: your right to think whatever you want.

Welcome to this forum.
Rep on the first post. Thats a new one!

 

[Zé Tahir]

For me religion is a crock of shit. No offense to anyone intended. I think having faith in something more than yourself is a good thing. But needing someone to tell you why you have faith and take your money to prove that you still have it is ridiculous. And on top of that religion makes you look at someone and say "Im better than that guy because he isnt my religion" even if the guy still worships the same god as you. Take for instance Muslims v. Christians. Koran and Bible are very similar but differ in certain instances. Both religions worship the same god but differ in the idea of which prophets are cooler. Yet this is enough have wars over? You could say the same thing with Catholics and Protestants in N Ireland. Minor differences, yet enough for war. Here in the states if youre not a certain religion the "liberal media" such as Bill O'Rielly, Anne Coulter, and Rusch Limbaugh deem you a traitor to the American people. (None of them are liberal, all three are Americanadists. They claim there is a liberal media slant in the states which doesnt exist. ) If you say happy holidays to include other religions youre deemed the same thing. Those are my reasons why religion doesnt pay off for me.

are you kidding me?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Although I have never chosen to react before and although I mostly read only Juve related threads, this thread caught my eye and I would like to have my say in it.

First off I don't want to offend anyone. If people are offended with what I'm going to say now, I want to make it perfectly clear that that wasn't my intention. Since religious discussions are always going to be inflammable, I'll try to keep as neutral as possible towards other religions and beliefs.

What has become clear in this thread is that Islam simply does not acknowledge the fact, yes fact, God isn't a certainty. Moreover, stating you're not sure about God's existence is deemed a personal insult. To defend that rather agressive opinion we are told it says so in the Qu'raan. Of course you couldn't challenge the Qu'raan either and of course the Qu'raan was written by Allah. We aren't allowed to doubt that either.

Now I happen to be studying history at my university and I happen to be studying the Islam. What strikes me most is that Mohammed does have the intention of killing the unfaithful. Unlike christians, muslims were very intolerant at the beginning. Killing has always been judged by christians, but it hasn't been by muslims. Perhaps we could understand this very agressive muslim attitude of some people on this forum now. Later on, Islam would prove to be a far more tolerant religion than catholicism though and one would expect that it would still be today.

But I do believe the line has been crossed on this forum. When one isn't allowed to even doubt God's existence and one is deemed harsh, stupid and offensive for doing so, that's when free will is abolished. That's when extreme fundamentalism is born. That's when religion forms a big threat. That's when the most fundamental right is brutally attacked: your right to think whatever you want.

Blue: Bold statement, can you cite that please?

Red: Are you talking about Muslims or Islam? There is a difference.

 

[Hambon]

Blue: Bold statement, can you cite that please?

Red: Are you talking about Muslims or Islam? There is a difference.

I second that, he lost my intrest earlier with that lousy comment about which propehet is "cooler" come on give me a break!

 

[Alucard Belmont]

What has become clear in this thread is that Islam simply does not acknowledge the fact, yes fact, God isn't a certainty. Moreover, stating you're not sure about God's existence is deemed a personal insult. To defend that rather agressive opinion we are told it says so in the Qu'raan. Of course you couldn't challenge the Qu'raan either and of course the Qu'raan was written by Allah. We aren't allowed to doubt that either.

well said. +rep

 

[Hambon]

Although I have never chosen to react before and although I mostly read only Juve related threads, this thread caught my eye and I would like to have my say in it.

First off I don't want to offend anyone. If people are offended with what I'm going to say now, I want to make it perfectly clear that that wasn't my intention. Since religious discussions are always going to be inflammable, I'll try to keep as neutral as possible towards other religions and beliefs.

What has become clear in this thread is that Islam simply does not acknowledge the fact, yes fact, God isn't a certainty. Moreover, stating you're not sure about God's existence is deemed a personal insult. To defend that rather agressive opinion we are told it says so in the Qu'raan. Of course you couldn't challenge the Qu'raan either and of course the Qu'raan was written by Allah. We aren't allowed to doubt that either.

Now I happen to be studying history at my university and I happen to be studying the Islam. What strikes me most is that Mohammed does have the intention of killing the unfaithful. Unlike christians, muslims were very intolerant at the beginning. Killing has always been judged by christians, but it hasn't been by muslims. Perhaps we could understand this very agressive muslim attitude of some people on this forum now. Later on, Islam would prove to be a far more tolerant religion than catholicism though and one would expect that it would still be today.

But I do believe the line has been crossed on this forum. When one isn't allowed to even doubt God's existence and one is deemed harsh, stupid and offensive for doing so, that's when free will is abolished. That's when extreme fundamentalism is born. That's when religion forms a big threat. That's when the most fundamental right is brutally attacked: your right to think whatever you want.

I doubt your seriously listening to your prof in History class buddy....how could you say that when the christians themselves started crusades against the muslims:faq1:

 

[Maresca]

Although I have never chosen to react before and although I mostly read only Juve related threads, this thread caught my eye and I would like to have my say in it.

First off I don't want to offend anyone. If people are offended with what I'm going to say now, I want to make it perfectly clear that that wasn't my intention. Since religious discussions are always going to be inflammable, I'll try to keep as neutral as possible towards other religions and beliefs.

What has become clear in this thread is that Islam simply does not acknowledge the fact, yes fact, God isn't a certainty. Moreover, stating you're not sure about God's existence is deemed a personal insult. To defend that rather agressive opinion we are told it says so in the Qu'raan. Of course you couldn't challenge the Qu'raan either and of course the Qu'raan was written by Allah. We aren't allowed to doubt that either.

Now I happen to be studying history at my university and I happen to be studying the Islam. What strikes me most is that Mohammed does have the intention of killing the unfaithful. Unlike christians, muslims were very intolerant at the beginning. Killing has always been judged by christians, but it hasn't been by muslims. Perhaps we could understand this very agressive muslim attitude of some people on this forum now. Later on, Islam would prove to be a far more tolerant religion than catholicism though and one would expect that it would still be today.

But I do believe the line has been crossed on this forum. When one isn't allowed to even doubt God's existence and one is deemed harsh, stupid and offensive for doing so, that's when free will is abolished. That's when extreme fundamentalism is born. That's when religion forms a big threat. That's when the most fundamental right is brutally attacked: your right to think whatever you want.

welcome to the forums,
It is really funny that your first post is not about juve. your have readen about so many juve threads and then choose this thread to start your membership? the members were about to forget about this thread and you try to add fuel to the fire. May be it was gonna be better not to speak

 

[LoScoglio]

I doubt your seriously listening to your prof in History class buddy....how could you say that when the christians themselves started crusades against the muslims:faq1:

Actually christian belief would condemn crusades. I'm sure that not too many christians today agree with the actions of medieval popes. They invented the concept of "bellum justum", just war. Whereas christian belief doesn't talk about holy wars, Islam doés talk about Jihad. You might want to pay attention before you make such a statement towards christians.

 

[/usr/bin]

Actually christian belief would condemn crusades. I'm sure that not too many christians today agree with the actions of medieval popes. They invented the concept of "bellum justum", just war. Whereas christian belief doesn't talk about holy wars, Islam doés talk about Jihad. You might want to pay attention before you make such a statement towards christians.

I'm sorry, but do you even know what Jihad actually stands for , or do you think what the propaganda you're fed with is actually true?

No disrespect to any Christans, of course..

 

[LoScoglio]

welcome to the forums,
It is really funny that your first post is not about juve. your have readen about so many juve threads and then choose this thread to start your membership? the members were about to forget about this thread and you try to add fuel to the fire. May be it was gonna be better not to speak

I don't think it really matters. Religion will always be a hot topic be it in this thread be it in another. I don't really feel the need to react in the Juve related threads as some members there probably know more about football than I do (Stuart, Andy, Denco, Vinman..).

I did feel the need to react in this thread as I simply cannot believe there are muslims in this community who condemn people who say God's an incertainty. William of Ockham once took the following stance:

There are no universals or, what amounts to the same thing, if there are, we cannot have knowledge of them, so, in effect, they do not exist for rational discussion. What we know are individuals. It is simply nonsense to speak of a thing being known as present in an intelligible form in the mind of the knower apart from the real existence of the individual. Being itself, insofar as it is a metaphysical concept, is undiscussable rationally, since by definition metaphysical entities are beyond nature and, therefore, beyond apprehension. No metaphysical knowledge is possible, from which it follows that none of the truths of religion are demonstrable.

William was prosecuted by the Church for saying this in the 14th century. I suggest we have advanced since then.

 

[LoScoglio]

I'm sorry, but do you even know what Jihad actually stands for , or do you think what the propaganda you're fed with is actually true?

No disrespect to any Christans, of course..

I do. Of course Jihad doesn't only mean religious war, it has many meanings, but religious war is one of them. I'm sorry, but it's a simple fact war isn't necessarily condemned in Islam as it is in christianity. Doesn't mean christians are any less intolerant than muslims though.

 

[/usr/bin]

I do. Of course Jihad doesn't only mean religious war, it has many meanings, but religious war is one of them. I'm sorry, but it's a simple fact war isn't necessarily condemned in Islam as it is in christianity. Doesn't mean christians are any less intolerant than muslims though.

Please check out this thread for further reference:
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9346&highlight=jihad

Rami's made some brilliant points there.. I hope you'd understand my frustration then..

 

[Maresca]

I don't think it really matters. Religion will always be a hot topic be it in this thread be it in another. I don't really feel the need to react in the Juve related threads as some members there probably know more about football than I do (Stuart, Andy, Denco, Vinman..).

I did feel the need to react in this thread as I simply cannot believe there are muslims in this community who condemn people who say God's an incertainty. William of Ockham once took the following stance:

There are no universals or, what amounts to the same thing, if there are, we cannot have knowledge of them, so, in effect, they do not exist for rational discussion. What we know are individuals. It is simply nonsense to speak of a thing being known as present in an intelligible form in the mind of the knower apart from the real existence of the individual. Being itself, insofar as it is a metaphysical concept, is undiscussable rationally, since by definition metaphysical entities are beyond nature and, therefore, beyond apprehension. No metaphysical knowledge is possible, from which it follows that none of the truths of religion are demonstrable.

William was prosecuted by the Church for saying this in the 14th century. I suggest we have advanced since then.

I had posted my opinion in another post in this thread. No one can prove anything. humans can either in a relligion or make an own vision of life, god etc. William of Ockham can not change this fact. He just represents a group of people who have their own vision.