Michel Bastos - LW - Olympique Lyonnais (40 Viewers)

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Quetzalcoatl

It ain't hard to tell
Aug 22, 2007
66,765
So many teams play with just one formation. It isn't as easy as you make it out to be to play with different systems.
Strong teams who can beat you just because of their vastly superior quality can do it. We shouldn't go into every game thinking we can beat anyone playing one way all the time.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Ya, i agree, but some people make it sound like its ok to just shuffle between different tactical systems like you're playing Football Manager or something.
 

Red

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Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
So many teams play with just one formation. It isn't as easy as you make it out to be to play with different systems.
:agree:

It certainly isn't easy to play different formations to a high standard.

Man Utd are about the best at it in recent years, going between 4-4-2 and 4-3-3/4-5-1 pretty smoothly.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
If you change the role of the Dm next to pirlo, a 442 would work. You would need an absolute work horse that destroys. A sissoko/melo hybrid.
 

Kasaki

Moggi's Assistant
Jun 1, 2010
13,750
Since Delneri?

Did Capello ever not play 4-4-2?

Deschamps was only flexible when injuries forced him to be.

Ranieri played 4-3-3 a few times, but was steadily 4-4-2 the rest of the time.

Ferrara was just about the only one who changed things about a bit, but that was probably due to how poorly the squad had been put together for the planned 4-3-1-2 system.
it was joke...
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
:agree:

It certainly isn't easy to play different formations to a high standard.

Man Utd are about the best at it in recent years, going between 4-4-2 and 4-3-3/4-5-1 pretty smoothly.
I grudgingly agree. Throws away the myth(that used to be true imo) of Ferguson supposedly being an incompetent tactican.
 

Red

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Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
Don't know why he didn't do better in Europe with Man Utd earlier, as he'd already put in classic 4-5-1 away European performances with Aberdeen, mostly notably a 0-0 draw with Bayern in Munich en route to a 3-2 win.

Very odd how stubborn he was with his tactics in Europe with Man Utd.
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,722
Don't know why he didn't do better in Europe with Man Utd earlier, as he'd already put in classic 4-5-1 away European performances with Aberdeen, mostly notably a 0-0 draw with Bayern in Munich en route to a 3-2 win.

Very odd how stubborn he was with his tactics in Europe with Man Utd.
the human version of Pavlov's dog :) ... and the EPL getting flooded with players and coaches from the continent changed things for the good old British way of playing the game
 

Red

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Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
the human version of Pavlov's dog :) ... and the EPL getting flooded with players and coaches from the continent changed things for the good old British way of playing the game
See I don't think that's the case with Ferguson.

As I said, he'd already put teams out to play very disciplined games away in Europe in the early '80s using 4-5-1 and had, even at that stage, recognised the need to play a more possession based game rather than their normal high tempo style.

It's possible that his Aberdeen players were more tactically intelligent than the English players at Man Utd and he couldn't change style with them until he brought in some more foreign players who understood how to play a more controlled tempo, though.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,119
Sides that play with the 4-3-3 also use the 4-5-1 when under pressure. When you play with the straight 4-4-2 you don't have much wiggle room for change and I've come to realize it really just doesn't offer enough movement when managed by Italian coaches. The setup is simply too static.

The best managers can change the system to suit the team, not imposing a system that is not suited for his squad.
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,722
See I don't think that's the case with Ferguson.

As I said, he'd already put teams out to play very disciplined games away in Europe in the early '80s using 4-5-1 and had, even at that stage, recognised the need to play a more possession based game rather than their normal high tempo style.

It's possible that his Aberdeen players were more tactically intelligent than the English players at Man Utd and he couldn't change style with them until he brought in some more foreign players who understood how to play a more controlled tempo, though.
could be but I doubt there had been much diff in the philosophy with which Scotish and English player were brought up at the time. Back then, while at Aberdeen, it's possible that SAF played that defensive scheme out of lack of quality players, especially the games in Europe vs quality opposition - same thing as the "parking the bus" tactics small teams use when they play big team ... they do it 'cause they don't have a choice ... it's not like Aberdeen at the time had super-talent in their ranks.

SAF may have talked about changing the way the Brits play football back then, but the first team he coached that exhibited such an approach, that I remember, was the ManU in the late 90's, which went on to win the CL eventually and even they were not entirely foreign to the good old British footie of long balls into the box and running all they long up and down the wings.
It's possible that he "forced" the ManU youth teams and coaches to change their ways and it took time for the generation of Giggs, Beckham and Scholes to eventually mature with a more modern perspective on the game.
 

Red

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Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
could be but I doubt there had been much diff in the philosophy with which Scotish and English player were brought up at the time.
Perhaps it wasn't about nouse, but the fact that the Aberdeen team actually had the discipline to play the way they were told.

The squad Man Utd had through the mid to late eighties and early nineties was not exactly know for being a disciplined bunch.

Back then, while at Aberdeen, it's possible that SAF played that defensive scheme out of lack of quality players, especially the games in Europe vs quality opposition - same thing as the "parking the bus" tactics small teams use when they play big team ... they do it 'cause they don't have a choice ... it's not like Aberdeen at the time had super-talent in their ranks.
The likes of the game away to Bayern involved Aberdeen putting an extra man into midfield in order to keep possession more and to avoid being put under constant pressure, which they succeeded in doing.

It wasn't a case of 'parking the bus' and desperately hoping to sneak a 0-0.


SAF may have talked about changing the way the Brits play football back then, but the first team he coached that exhibited such an approach, that I remember, was the ManU in the late 90's, which went on to win the CL eventually and even they were not entirely foreign to the good old British footie of long balls into the box and running all they long up and down the wings.
It's possible that he "forced" the ManU youth teams and coaches to change their ways and it took time for the generation of Giggs, Beckham and Scholes to eventually mature.
I didn't think the team that won in '99 played any particularly different style of football to most English teams; it's just that they did it much better than any English team had done in about 15 years.
 

Kasaki

Moggi's Assistant
Jun 1, 2010
13,750
Sides that play with the 4-3-3 also use the 4-5-1 when under pressure. When you play with the straight 4-4-2 you don't have much wiggle room for change and I've come to realize it really just doesn't offer enough movement when managed by Italian coaches. The setup is simply too static.

The best managers can change the system to suit the team, not imposing a system that is not suited for his squad.
4-4-2 = High school soccer
 

Salvo

J
Moderator
Dec 17, 2007
62,839
6 million plus Sissoko now :confused:.

No system is better than another, it is all about putting the players you have in the system that suits them best.
 

AOD4

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2004
3,861
6 million plus Sissoko now :confused:.

No system is better than another, it is all about putting the players you have in the system that suits them best.
Sissoko would be around 8m, so probably the deal would be between 12 to 15 m and not more than that.
 

Dominic

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2004
16,706
Since Delneri?

Did Capello ever not play 4-4-2?

Deschamps was only flexible when injuries forced him to be.

Ranieri played 4-3-3 a few times, but was steadily 4-4-2 the rest of the time.

Ferrara was just about the only one who changed things about a bit, but that was probably due to how poorly the squad had been put together for the planned 4-3-1-2 system.
Capello played a very weird 3-5-2 a handful of times (notably the 3-3 against Fiorentina and the 0-0 against Liverpool). He also used the 4-3-3 for a number of weeks, following Nedved's head injury(We were very good when we played that formation, even with makeshift left central midfielder Pessotto vs madrid).
 
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