Massimiliano Allegri (202 Viewers)

[Gigiventus]

This is why we should stop this stupid practice of bringing former players and coaches back

You reminisce the good times and have high expectations but when they don't perform at their expected level, you're absolutely shattered.

If you ignore his past and look at his record in the past two seasons, he's pretty much done a job of a mid-table level coach.

The reactions here happen to be extreme and rightfully so because this is the same guy who won 11 trophies with us and played an acceptable standard of football for most of his first stint. So it becomes even more infuriating when you play garbage football, deliver terrible results and do Del Neri style press conferences.

This is probably the biggest fall an accomplished coach has taken in recent times. Especially when you are looking at coaches who have stayed at a single club for a minimum of 3-4 seasons

Even while it's clear he needs to go, to say that he has done the job of a mid table coach is too far.

This season had every ingredient for a total meltdown. The biggest injury crisis in memory, the world cup, the courts interfering with the table, yet we are still 2nd place and got to two semi-finals.

The results are clearly not enough to want to keep him, but Allegri is still Allegri. He did navigate this season better than most other coaches could have. It could have been a much bigger train wreck. It's the typical season that would result in a club having 3 coaches and falling to midtable Chelsea style.

The biggest negative mark is the fact that the football he asks the team to play is far too negative and shows little signs of evolution. If his play had been more positive then the results achieved this season could be enough to continue.

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Yeah I have to say though that in general I do believe that 352 isn’t the answer for European games. The teams you face in Europe are way more technical and attack minded than the average team in Italy, therefore we see that basic things such as constructing a decent attack become very difficult. It’s a miracle that Inter reached the final with that tactic, we’ve seen the same when Conte utilised it with us.

I’m 100% sure that with a decent coach and a 433 our coverage on the field would make a huge difference, being able to press higher instead of falling back to two heavily defensive lines and utilising the speed of Chiesa or Iling on the wings with a 433.

If we analyse yesterday, inviting a team to give dozens of crosses in a semi final in Europe honestly is asking for problems, even if we still had BBC as our back 3.

Its a true dinosaur formation. Outdated in every sense of the word

It's the tactics not the formation. There are proactive back 3s and back 4s, it's simply about player fit and the instructions to the players.

Gasperini sets his team to attack relentlessly, Mazzarri set it to transition quickly and be very vertical, Conte set it to control the game, Guardiola when he uses a back 3 goes for his usual possession and quick combinations, Allegri uses it to defend.

 

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[singus]

Street this fucking donkey

 

[U Picciriddu]

I think it's important to note that obviously football strategy is never as simple as '352' or '433' or '4231'- there are more important aspects to a team's style of play such as overarching approach or philosophy, individual player instructions, player roles, positional fluidity, lopsidedness etc. As such I don't see much sense in writing off a back 3 entirely when it comes to European campaigns. I see it more as both teams have 11 players and it's up to the coach to assemble a system out of the pieces he has.

I also think it always makes sense to start by identifying the best 11 players you have and build from there. We have CBs who began as fullbacks (Danilo, Alex Sandro), and that's something that can be used to make a fluid system which changes shape depending on the situation or phase of play, for example. The role that Mandzukic and Dani Alves had on opposite sides of the same team that is another example of a setup not being as simple as it would be represented by numbers or even with a graphic.

This wasn't a very well-written post, but what I'm tryna say is that I think it's possible to put together an exciting, dynamic, effective team with a back 3- but it depends on the context within which it's deployed. What we're doing now ain't it, clearly. Mazzari's Napoli is one example of a better one. If you upgrade some of the players- his back 3 with what we have now, Kostic for Zuñiga, a better player than Maggio on the right and some good CMs to play with Hamsik in the centre it would be a top team even in today's football imo. I think what I'm saying is we should find a system that works and allows us to play with a back 3 simply because those are our best players and a back 3 doesn't immediately nullify the rest of the team.

As an aside, a big part of why we're fucking up is that our squad doesn't fit any one particular formation. It's a mess, and any system we play necessarily has several players out of position. I suppose that technically even includes Danilo despite that working out well. We need to pick a system and arrange the squad to fit it. If we're really about to buy Pau Torres as a 4th first-choice CB then we truly are clueless.

I understand what you’re saying and indeed if you have the best players of the world at your disposal at defence with 3 CBs might work in Europe.

Personally I see this more black and white. Because 3 CB’s are 3 CB’s. The third defender take the spot of a winger or a attack minded player. Things might get more fluid when Danilo joins the midfield in the build up but the awkward truth here is that Danilo’s (or Sandro’s) footballing skills are way less than any winger, therefore creating will become more difficult.

There were many moments yesterday when the ball got switched between our defenders in order to find a opening and pass to either Paredes or Rabiot. All that moving destroys the momentum and we don’t have a team good enough for endless passing.

What we ultimately create with a extra (defensive) player behind the ball is the lack of someone extra upfront and asking impossible things to our players. Iling and Cuadrado won’t kill their flanks on their own, Rabiot isn’t prime Vidal and Di Maria is good but won’t work miracles alone either. It a waste of resources in our case im afraid. If we write down our best line up in a different -4 at the back- formation im 100% positive that we should be able to beat Sevilla. They weren’t that good tbh

 

[s4tch]

They won't do it at least until the end of the season. And seeing Calvo saying that Allegri is doing the whole sports department i doubt they'll do it in summer.

full quote should be: "based on what calvo said before the match, the club is still backing the coach". that's what gds wrote too.

have you even heard a ceo saying "this is the last chance for our coach"? zamparini probably fed the press with shit like that but he was a lunatic lol

the team still has to secure 4th place and the club will (and should) back the coach until there's anything to fight for. and somehow i still hope that the club will do the only right thing once the season actually ends

 

[Scottish]

I understand what you’re saying and indeed if you have the best players of the world at your disposal at defence with 3 CBs might work in Europe.

Personally I see this more black and white. Because 3 CB’s are 3 CB’s. The third defender take the spot of a winger or a attack minded player. Things might get more fluid when Danilo joins the midfield in the build up but the awkward truth here is that Danilo’s (or Sandro’s) footballing skills are way less than any winger, therefore creating will become more difficult.

There were many moments yesterday when the ball got switched between our defenders in order to find a opening and pass to either Paredes or Rabiot. All that moving destroys the momentum and we don’t have a team good enough for endless passing.

What we ultimately create with a extra (defensive) player behind the ball is the lack of someone extra upfront and asking impossible things to our players. Iling and Cuadrado won’t kill their flanks on their own, Rabiot isn’t prime Vidal and Di Maria is good but won’t work miracles alone either. It a waste of resources in our case im afraid. If we write down our best line up in a different -4 at the back- formation im 100% positive that we should be able to beat Sevilla. They weren’t that good tbh

Really good analysis. I think we're sort of saying the same thing- that you have to adapt the system to the players you have available.

Where we differ is that I say that because we're stacked (relatively speaking lol) at CB we should be playing all three at once because that should (with a sane man at the helm) allow our wing backs to play further forward and help the attacking phase, and you're saying that because the rest of the team aren't as good we should be gearing the strategy towards maximising their effectiveness- which means playing two CBs and adding an extra man further up.

Agree Sevilla weren't that good. We should have found a way to beat them in 90 minutes and probably without making any subs either because they were fairly predictable.

 

[U Picciriddu]

full quote should be: "based on what calvo said before the match, the club is still backing the coach". that's what gds wrote too.

have you even heard a ceo saying "this is the last chance for our coach"? zamparini probably fed the press with shit like that but he was a lunatic lol

the team still has to secure 4th place and the club will (and should) back the coach until there's anything to fight for. and somehow i still hope that the club will do the only right thing once the season actually ends

Just like always we wont hear anything until the season is finished, then out of the blue everyone gets fired

 

[Hist]

Even while it's clear he needs to go, to say that he has done the job of a mid table coach is too far.

This season had every ingredient for a total meltdown. The biggest injury crisis in memory, the world cup, the courts interfering with the table, yet we are still 2nd place and got to two semi-finals.

The results are clearly not enough to want to keep him, but Allegri is still Allegri. He did navigate this season better than most other coaches could have. It could have been a much bigger train wreck. It's the typical season that would result in a club having 3 coaches and falling to midtable Chelsea style.

The biggest negative mark is the fact that the football he asks the team to play is far too negative and shows little signs of evolution. If his play had been more positive then the results achieved this season could be enough to continue.

- - - Updated - - -


It's the tactics not the formation. There are proactive back 3s and back 4s, it's simply about player fit and the instructions to the players.

Gasperini sets his team to attack relentlessly, Mazzarri set it to transition quickly and be very vertical, Conte set it to control the game, Guardiola when he uses a back 3 goes for his usual possession and quick combinations, Allegri uses it to defend.

Dude it’s Europa League and Coppa Italia. “Two semifinals” is not the World Cup and Champions League

How many humiliations by much more scarcely resourced teams do you need to see that we are probably the worst coached big team out there? Pick a coach at random from Serie A and they’ll probably do as bad or better than Allegri has.

 

[Scottish]

Even while it's clear he needs to go, to say that he has done the job of a mid table coach is too far.

This season had every ingredient for a total meltdown. The biggest injury crisis in memory, the world cup, the courts interfering with the table, yet we are still 2nd place and got to two semi-finals.

The results are clearly not enough to want to keep him, but Allegri is still Allegri. He did navigate this season better than most other coaches could have. It could have been a much bigger train wreck. It's the typical season that would result in a club having 3 coaches and falling to midtable Chelsea style.

The biggest negative mark is the fact that the football he asks the team to play is far too negative and shows little signs of evolution. If his play had been more positive then the results achieved this season could be enough to continue.

- - - Updated - - -


It's the tactics not the formation. There are proactive back 3s and back 4s, it's simply about player fit and the instructions to the players.

Gasperini sets his team to attack relentlessly, Mazzarri set it to transition quickly and be very vertical, Conte set it to control the game, Guardiola when he uses a back 3 goes for his usual possession and quick combinations, Allegri uses it to defend.

I'm gonna wait for my (lengthy, probably) final appraisal of Max's season till it's properly over but basically there have been huge obstacles and he did ok navigating them, but theyve mostly been resolved for months now and we can see that this entire time he was in a way one such obstacle himself.

 

[GarfielD]

I am curious to know how would this group of players play under Pep.

 

[Gigiventus]

Dude it’s Europa League and Coppa Italia. “Two semifinals” is not the World Cup and Champions League

How many humiliations by much more scarcely resourced teams do you need to see that we are probably the worst coached big team out there? Pick a coach at random from Serie A and they’ll probably do as bad or better than Allegri has.

Being arrogant about EL or coppa italia is to be delusional about the current Juventus. We go back to being the club Juventus should be by fighting for every match and every tournament.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I am curious to know how would this group of players play under Pep.

100% better. Not saying we’d become City cause we don’t have the talent for that but he would get the best out of these players.

Our passing game would drastically change.

 

[LiquidPLP]

100% better. Not saying we’d become City cause we don’t have the talent for that but he would get the best out of these players.

Our passing game would drastically change.

It'd be enough to have De Zerbi or even Italiano. Some laugh their assess off hearing these names but at least their teams can do the basics right. Something that JJ under Allegro never had. One watches his JJ and can easily confuse that team with Siena. A true relegation battler style and only some individual brilliance lifts us to something better.

 

[bongraider]

I am curious to know how would this group of players play under Pep.

Pep wouldn't even assemble such a disjointed bunch in the first place

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[juve123]

I am curious to know how would this group of players play under Pep.

Pep has spent a billion euros at man city and has only worked for clubs that can gurantee him a significant transfer budget. Can somebody like Spalletti, Italiano improve our attacking play?

 

[Akshen]

When u think about it, there is Manu and Juventus:
- both teams got kicked out of EL by Sevilla, one in semi final, one in quarter final
- both team will probably qualify to the CL based on sporting achievements.

Seems like pretty similiar achievements in a season (Juve even doing better when u look at this), but fans of one team are absolutely happy to keep their coach for next season and the other club fans wants to kick him out.
The answer is simple, in the way Manu plays and manager manages the team its clearly visible there is a hope that year by year it will get better. In Juve case nothing points out to it. Manu plays fast attractive football, Juve plays like shit. There is a chemistry between coach and the players at Manure, at Juve all the time we hear Allegri has a problem with the player.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Pep has spent a billion euros at man city and has only worked for clubs that can gurantee him a significant transfer budget. Can somebody like Spalletti, Italiano improve our attacking play?

Of course they can and they would. Unless you believe we have worse players than Napoli and Fiorentina that is.

Our players aren't THAT bad. I mean, if everybody is shit, you have to fire the coach because it's him who gets too much wrong.

Then, firing Allegri won't magically fix everything. It's absolutely required that the squad is cleaned up and we have a competent DS who for once would buy a couple of fullbacks and wingers, instead of 11th CM. It's still crazy to me that we went into the season with two wingers: old Di Maria and injured Chiesa. Fullbacks situation is not any better either.
We really should have kept Rovella and spent Paredes money on some winger. It's nice that Iling turned out to be decent-ish but it was too late already, we can easily say he hardly contributed this season.
Wingbacks for 352 were only Kostic and Cuadrado, I don't count MDS. Also a shitty situation to be in.

I don't know how people can have any doubts about Allegri... we literally play like a relegation battlers, always sitting back, event at home vs shitty teams.

 

[Alen]

He was given a bunch of players who played in serie B and serie C last year. That's his only excuse, nothing else.

 

[juve123]

When u think about it, there is Manu and Juventus:
- both teams got kicked out of EL by Sevilla, one in semi final, one in quarter final
- both team will probably qualify to the CL based on sporting achievements.

Seems like pretty similiar achievements in a season (Juve even doing better when u look at this), but fans of one team are absolutely happy to keep their coach for next season and the other club fans wants to kick him out.
The answer is simple, in the way Manu plays and manager manages the team its clearly visible there is a hope that year by year it will get better. In Juve case nothing points out to it. Manu plays fast attractive football, Juve plays like shit. There is a chemistry between coach and the players at Manure, at Juve all the time we hear Allegri has a problem with the player.

Who told you man utd fans are happy after being thrashed by Liverpool and man city?

 

[Mokku]

The formation isn't that important, it's how you play the game. The 3-5-2 that Inter plays is defensive but when they attack, their plan is clear and they have midfielders that press forward and contribute a lot of goals. We can play exactly the same, if not more aggressively, but we set up to be negative. Inter always have an outlet so even when pinned back, they can counter ruthlessly.

As much as you can say they were lucky to be in the CL final, they showed that they can defend well under pressure and score against big teams. I fully get game management but wanting to win every game 1-0 always backfires.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Pep has spent a billion euros at man city and has only worked for clubs that can gurantee him a significant transfer budget. Can somebody like Spalletti, Italiano improve our attacking play?

Pep would be shit here, and yes they probably would tbh.