Massimiliano Allegri (449 Viewers)

[Signora Omicidi]

I'm OK with him being our manager next season. But injuries have to be sorted out ASAP.
I don't remember major injuries during Conte's spell here.
It has to be something wrong with Allegri's staff.

 

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[Juve FC]

Why do you keep saying this about Vlahovic? He played 21 games at Viola this year in the league. 15 games here. It’s not at all unreasonable to compare those two periods. And his non-penalty goals/90 was nearly identical/marginally better here at Juve. 0.59 vs 0.58. Add to this no preseason, came into a side with an injury crisis, a side missing its best attacker/best chance creator for the entire time he’s been here. All reasons to be optimistic about Vlahovic for next year. But if him not scoring a bunch of penalties here has you believing he flopped go right ahead I guess.

If on the other hand you would like more evidence that he didn’t regress here and we can be optimistic? I can provide that.

His non-penalty xGoals climbed from 0.39 at Viola to 0.45 at Juve. His shots/90 climbed from 3.34 at Viola to 3.76 at Juve. His shots on target/90 climbed from 1.31 at Viola to 1.67 at Juve. His average distance from goal/shot dropped from 16.2 yards at Viola to 13.9 yards at Juve. His shot on target percentage climbed from 39% at Viola to 44% at Juve.

To summarize, he scored more non-penalty goals/90 here. His expected goals were higher here. He took more shots and from closer to goal. He put more shots on target and a higher percentage of his overall shots were on target.

All these things point to success imo. But to each their own.

I'd love to see those numbers broken down by first 8 games vs last 7 games. Not sure if possible.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Pirlo: 39 injuries
Allegri: 63 injuries

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Games missed in the squad due to injury

Pirlo: 160
Allegri: 252

 

[#10]

Braving the hot bed of irrational Allegro Throating, bullying, baiting and madness of this thread to share my thoughts

- he is a legend for what he did before, therefore earns a stay of execution
- his football is for the majority of the time horrific, battery acid to the eye, sort of stuff. Without the defensive heroes, you can’t even call it classic Italian resolute defending - as we don’t do it.
- bringing youth through isn’t really his strong point. Yes we have some glimpses, such a mirreti but they are more ad-hoc and not systematically bread.
- player improvement is not his forte either ; nobody has really developed past the minimum. Players have generally regressed or paused. This needs working on in year 2 to maximise potential as right now it looks like the team is cobbled together for the weekend and little longer term development/thought. His big long term contract should be his fall back to thing longer term
- set pieces; he needs to hire someone specifically for this as he has thus far been less than adequate.
- attacking strategy; again nothing cohesive, no worked routine, no plan - freedom can work but right now we look rudderless. Loosing Ronaldo is no excuse at this point as he was like this in his last stint.

In summary should we sack him? Probably. But his legacy and circumstance saves him.

Before the barrage of throating or anti-allegro moans about legacy, stats, records, etc - this is based on the ol eye test - watching every game this season and reflecting on the last 10 years cognisant of the 10 before that.

He can do so much better, the fear is he will regress and not progress. Therefore Winter break really will be critical reflection point for Allegro - if the first half of the season is the same as this season he’s lost it.

Lopresti et al have a great take on the Allegro this year - worth a listen.

 

[singus]

Why do you keep saying this about Vlahovic? He played 21 games at Viola this year in the league. 15 games here. It’s not at all unreasonable to compare those two periods. And his non-penalty goals/90 was nearly identical/marginally better here at Juve. 0.59 vs 0.58. Add to this no preseason, came into a side with an injury crisis, a side missing its best attacker/best chance creator for the entire time he’s been here. All reasons to be optimistic about Vlahovic for next year. But if him not scoring a bunch of penalties here has you believing he flopped go right ahead I guess.

If on the other hand you would like more evidence that he didn’t regress here and we can be optimistic? I can provide that.

His non-penalty xGoals climbed from 0.39 at Viola to 0.45 at Juve. His shots/90 climbed from 3.34 at Viola to 3.76 at Juve. His shots on target/90 climbed from 1.31 at Viola to 1.67 at Juve. His average distance from goal/shot dropped from 16.2 yards at Viola to 13.9 yards at Juve. His shot on target percentage climbed from 39% at Viola to 44% at Juve.

To summarize, he scored more non-penalty goals/90 here. His expected goals were higher here. He took more shots and from closer to goal. He put more shots on target and a higher percentage of his overall shots were on target.

All these things point to success imo. But to each their own.

It must be hard at one hand always ridiculing people for bringing stats like xGoals, chances created etc,
and then on the other hand often use exact same.

But you somehow manage to pull it off.

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That’s a lazy stereotype.
Pogba, Dybala, Bentancur, Morata (first spell) all flourished under Allegri. Even Berna was actually decent in his first 2 seasons at Juve.
De Ligt and Locatelli had good seasons this year and Miretti got minutes near the end.
Chiesa should’ve been rested more, he had been playing every game for Juve, Fiorentina and Italy in the year or two preceding his injury.
As for Kulu, he was dogshit under Pirlo too.
And Coman is nothing special, he’s spent most of his time at Bayern on the bench.

All that flourish, and Berna being decent for 2 seasons, lol. This guy has no level of low he doesnt visit, in order to defend his master.

 

[Hist]

Why do you keep saying this about Vlahovic? He played 21 games at Viola this year in the league. 15 games here. It’s not at all unreasonable to compare those two periods. And his non-penalty goals/90 was nearly identical/marginally better here at Juve. 0.59 vs 0.58. Add to this no preseason, came into a side with an injury crisis, a side missing its best attacker/best chance creator for the entire time he’s been here. All reasons to be optimistic about Vlahovic for next year. But if him not scoring a bunch of penalties here has you believing he flopped go right ahead I guess.

If on the other hand you would like more evidence that he didn’t regress here and we can be optimistic? I can provide that.

His non-penalty xGoals climbed from 0.39 at Viola to 0.45 at Juve. His shots/90 climbed from 3.34 at Viola to 3.76 at Juve. His shots on target/90 climbed from 1.31 at Viola to 1.67 at Juve. His average distance from goal/shot dropped from 16.2 yards at Viola to 13.9 yards at Juve. His shot on target percentage climbed from 39% at Viola to 44% at Juve.

To summarize, he scored more non-penalty goals/90 here. His expected goals were higher here. He took more shots and from closer to goal. He put more shots on target and a higher percentage of his overall shots were on target.

All these things point to success imo. But to each their own.

Fwiw I am incredibly optimistic about Dusan. Despite our non-existing attacking play the guy is like a dog with a bone, fights for every ball, works his ass off and demonstrates great technique and instinctual finishing on multiple occasions. My argument has not never been that he steeply declined since he joined us, my argument is that maintaining close/similar ratio does not necessarily entail he is fitting here just as good as he did over there, because over a longer period it'll be more difficult to maintain this ratio.

In terms of the comparison between his stats at Fiorentina vs Juve, I was including the previous season not only the two halves of this season (hence the substantially longer period).

I don't know if you're hand picking stats or if different websites are reporting different numbers, but comparing the two half seasons or 1.5 season to half season it seems that his time at Viola is slightly better.

Sauce: https://understat.com/player/7084

Ofc I agree with you that joining a dysfunctional Juve with no preseason can make a world of difference for most players. With a larger sample and a pre-season we will be more capable of making an apple to apples comparison.

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I'm OK with him being our manager next season. But injuries have to be sorted out ASAP.
I don't remember major injuries during Conte's spell here.
It has to be something wrong with Allegri's staff.

When Conte joined Spurs, they were bottom of the League in terms of distance covered during matches, within a few weeks they were in the top 3. Ofc the coaching staff has something to do with it, its not only random luck

 

[U Picciriddu]

Personally I dislike stats. Often they only show half the story, nothing tells you more than a simple eye test.

Plain data doesn’t tell you much about the quality of a goal or (key)pass. A key pass could be as simple as a plain horizontal pass. A goal could be a easy tap-in, due to some defenders mistake. Low passing percentage could be due to making very risky passes.

0.58 vs 0.59 (even with/without penalty’s) doesn’t tell me anything about the overal performance, which is way more important (and coincidentally was very underwhelming).

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone like Mandzukic had underwhelming stats; not to many goals, low passing percentage, etc. His overal performance made him a key player though. But probably you had to see it before you believed it.

 

[Dominic]

Braving the hot bed of irrational Allegro Throating, bullying, baiting and madness of this thread to share my thoughts

- he is a legend for what he did before, therefore earns a stay of execution
- his football is for the majority of the time horrific, battery acid to the eye, sort of stuff. Without the defensive heroes, you can’t even call it classic Italian resolute defending - as we don’t do it.
- bringing youth through isn’t really his strong point. Yes we have some glimpses, such a mirreti but they are more ad-hoc and not systematically bread.
- player improvement is not his forte either ; nobody has really developed past the minimum. Players have generally regressed or paused. This needs working on in year 2 to maximise potential as right now it looks like the team is cobbled together for the weekend and little longer term development/thought. His big long term contract should be his fall back to thing longer term
- set pieces; he needs to hire someone specifically for this as he has thus far been less than adequate.
- attacking strategy; again nothing cohesive, no worked routine, no plan - freedom can work but right now we look rudderless. Loosing Ronaldo is no excuse at this point as he was like this in his last stint.

In summary should we sack him? Probably. But his legacy and circumstance saves him.

Before the barrage of throating or anti-allegro moans about legacy, stats, records, etc - this is based on the ol eye test - watching every game this season and reflecting on the last 10 years cognisant of the 10 before that.

He can do so much better, the fear is he will regress and not progress. Therefore Winter break really will be critical reflection point for Allegro - if the first half of the season is the same as this season he’s lost it.

Lopresti et al have a great take on the Allegro this year - worth a listen.

Welcome back!

 

[#10]

Welcome back!

Thanks Dominic,

Whilst life takes over, I’ve not stopped following Juve. It’s good to see the forum still going - glad to see the rap douche phase has moved on. It’s great to see the OGs still around - scarily 20+ years later!

Like the rest of the world, this forum has become so binary, ironically black or white, which is fine - the forum sometimes struggles with balance.

This topic is soo tense it tempted me back posting.

 

[JuveE46]

Fwiw I am incredibly optimistic about Dusan. Despite our non-existing attacking play the guy is like a dog with a bone, fights for every ball, works his ass off and demonstrates great technique and instinctual finishing on multiple occasions. My argument has not never been that he steeply declined since he joined us, my argument is that maintaining close/similar ratio does not necessarily entail he is fitting here just as good as he did over there, because over a longer period it'll be more difficult to maintain this ratio.

In terms of the comparison between his stats at Fiorentina vs Juve, I was including the previous season not only the two halves of this season (hence the substantially longer period).

I don't know if you're hand picking stats or if different websites are reporting different numbers, but comparing the two half seasons or 1.5 season to half season it seems that his time at Viola is slightly better.

Sauce: https://understat.com/player/7084

Ofc I agree with you that joining a dysfunctional Juve with no preseason can make a world of difference for most players. With a larger sample and a pre-season we will be more capable of making an apple to apples comparison.

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When Conte joined Spurs, they were bottom of the League in terms of distance covered during matches, within a few weeks they were in the top 3. Ofc the coaching staff has something to do with it, its not only random luck

Vat? Cunte didn't doo noting!! Man you got some in here who will move goalposts on you it's just the way it is..
I actually attribute Conte with bringing out the beast in Pogba too and it mostly had to do with clear and defined instructions on what everyone's role is..another words much much better organization all the way around.. but undefeated season is nothing don't you know that?
Not just any coach could put Pirlo to use so efficiently (which max had a chance to do at bilan and didn't) people say he had Vidal yes he also had pepe and got much better out of pepe and estegaribia than Max does out of Artur and Rabiot..
Even when making apples to apples comparison the price tag will be 500€ a kilo cuz this is tuz baby and passion > logic.
Like many I agree next year mid season is time to review Max's report card until then let's see.

 

[Dominic]

Thanks Dominic,

Whilst life takes over, I’ve not stopped following Juve. It’s good to see the forum still going - glad to see the rap douche phase has moved on. It’s great to see the OGs still around - scarily 20+ years later!

Like the rest of the world, this forum has become so binary, ironically black or white, which is fine - the forum sometimes struggles with balance.

This topic is soo tense it tempted me back posting.

Hey man. Yea it’s been nearly 20 years…..

its sometimes hard to know what to read seriously or not, o well it’s not always easy to take Juventus or the sport seriously either.
Keeping just that in mind keeps it healthy I guess.

 

[Post Ironic]

Fwiw I am incredibly optimistic about Dusan. Despite our non-existing attacking play the guy is like a dog with a bone, fights for every ball, works his ass off and demonstrates great technique and instinctual finishing on multiple occasions. My argument has not never been that he steeply declined since he joined us, my argument is that maintaining close/similar ratio does not necessarily entail he is fitting here just as good as he did over there, because over a longer period it'll be more difficult to maintain this ratio.

In terms of the comparison between his stats at Fiorentina vs Juve, I was including the previous season not only the two halves of this season (hence the substantially longer period).

I don't know if you're hand picking stats or if different websites are reporting different numbers, but comparing the two half seasons or 1.5 season to half season it seems that his time at Viola is slightly better.

Sauce: https://understat.com/player/7084

Ofc I agree with you that joining a dysfunctional Juve with no preseason can make a world of difference for most players. With a larger sample and a pre-season we will be more capable of making an apple to apples comparison.

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When Conte joined Spurs, they were bottom of the League in terms of distance covered during matches, within a few weeks they were in the top 3. Ofc the coaching staff has something to do with it, its not only random luck

I’m using FBref because that is the one RUS and his pals have been using lately, and because understat doesn’t have a non-penalty/90 goals or xGoals which tells a much better story about how he’s played. All those stats are directly fr there yesterday, and all show he performed better here in those categories. Aside from the last couple matches when our season was over, I’d say they reflected his time well here. He did miss quite a lot of very good chances here in his first 8-10 games, and could have done better, and then our displays fell off a cliff again and the chances dried up completely. Our performances in April and May were abysmal.

The one area where the /90 stats show an actual marked regression is in the passing and chance creation stats for his teammates. But that makes sense given the mess our attack is with its complete lack of cohesion.

 

[campionesidd]

Thanks Dominic,

Whilst life takes over, I’ve not stopped following Juve. It’s good to see the forum still going - glad to see the rap douche phase has moved on. It’s great to see the OGs still around - scarily 20+ years later!

Like the rest of the world, this forum has become so binary, ironically black or white, which is fine - the forum sometimes struggles with balance.

This topic is soo tense it tempted me back posting.

Healthy criticism of Allegri is always welcome. The problem is when some people hate Allegri so much that they actively root for Juve to lose. @Juventino_RUS got banned for this very reason.

 

[#10]

Healthy criticism of Allegri is always welcome. The problem is when some people hate Allegri so much that they actively root for Juve to lose. @Juventino_RUS got banned for this very reason.

Hating Allegro is understandable. His football and the madness of bias of this forum can do that to people.

I doubt Mr Rus really wanted Juve to lose, perhaps if he did he simply wanted Allegro out ASAP. I know plenty of United fans who wanted their team to loose to get rid of Ragnick, similar with Arsenal and Wenger back in the day - and he is a legend of their club.

Football is an irrational tribalistic past time that brings out emotions in so many ways. This reflects on this forum - some of the blind stubborn / trolling posting has been ridiculous on both sides. It can bring the worst out of people - certainly some folk on here I wouldn’t break bread and have a pint with.

 

[Bianconero81]

Hating Allegro is understandable. His football and the madness of bias of this forum can do that to people.

I doubt Mr Rus really wanted Juve to lose, perhaps if he did he simply wanted Allegro out ASAP. I know plenty of United fans who wanted their team to loose to get rid of Ragnick, similar with Arsenal and Wenger back in the day - and he is a legend of their club.

Football is an irrational tribalistic past time that brings out emotions in so many ways. This reflects on this forum - some of the blind stubborn / trolling posting has been ridiculous on both sides. It can bring the worst out of people - certainly some folk on here I wouldn’t break bread and have a pint with.

 

[rainhard]

Keyword : Madness bias

 

[Orgut]

Are we still on Allegri good or bad?! Let him have another season - He`ll have it anyway..
All the hating is irrelevant for now even if understandable

 

[JCK]

Are we still on Allegri good or bad?! Let him have another season - He`ll have it anyway..
All the hating is irrelevant for now even if understandable

Haters think that the more they hate the more and passionate of Juve fans they look like. Simple minds.

 

[U Picciriddu]

https://www.antoniocorsa.it/bilancio-del-primo-anno-dellallegri-bis-sufficienza-raggiunta/

 

[maxi]

Imagine Real chose this guy