EuroMaxx is gonna creep up on that CL trophy and once he grabs it, he'll never let it go. He'll be forever defending champ.
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Massimiliano Allegri (227 Viewers)
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2 top teams beat in 3 years, not like it's mission impossible that Allegri did with us in his time here
In his first year he pretty much got everything right, I can not criticise his first season as it was almost flawless
Slowly every season the team has played worse, I think that's due to Allegri's style and approach and the management making too many changes and forcing his hand
Last season he overachieved but the cracks were still there and we ultimately had no chance in the final as Allegri was bringing on players like Sturraro and Lemina while Real Madrid could bring on Bale and Morata from the bench a luxury we don't have
I would give Allegri a 9/10 in his time here but I still don't agree with his philosophy as I don't think it will bridge the gap to the top clubs and deliver us a CL title
A more attacking approach would help to bridge that gap as parking the bus and struggling to get out of our own half is definitely not the answer to winning the CL
If you are happy to do well in the league and don't want to win the CL then Allegri is fine for you but I want to see us win a CL so I judge him on what a team wanting to win the CL should judge him and for me it's not good enough bending over to any team who can play a bit of football
Watching us play it looks like very little attacking play is worked on at the training pitch, players movements are slow and random at times
Doesn't look like players are coached on which runs to make and who should be staying back, there is no way Chiellini should be venturing past the half way line for example in open play yet he finds himself in midfield at times moving the ball forward
We are far too static and there is not enough cohesive attacking play here
With proper movement from the other players he shouldn't have to go into midfield and should have options to give the ball to someone who can move the ball around better than him
It's not like we need a genius attacking coach in here, we don't even counter attack yet we play so deep as a team
A counter attack is basic and doesn't need the most detailed coaching to accomplish yet Allegri has never made us counter attack effectively on a consistent basis after 2015
Playing Mandzukic as a winger is a stupid tactic and I thought I would see the last of him there when we signed Costa and Berna yet he persists with a slow player who can't attack very well on the wing because he offers defensive cover
Playing him there as a sub on the wing to close out a game fine, playing him there for rotation in a lesser game fine
Starting him against Tottenham and being pinned back for the majority of the game is a huge fuck up on Allegri's part
There is no counter attack with him there and Tottenham didn't need to worry about a counter attack with him there
I don't see us winning the CL under Allegri so any coach that can get us playing good football with a balance of attack and defence is fine for me
In his first year he pretty much got everything right, I can not criticise his first season as it was almost flawless
Slowly every season the team has played worse, I think that's due to Allegri's style and approach and the management making too many changes and forcing his hand
Last season he overachieved but the cracks were still there and we ultimately had no chance in the final as Allegri was bringing on players like Sturraro and Lemina while Real Madrid could bring on Bale and Morata from the bench a luxury we don't have
I would give Allegri a 9/10 in his time here but I still don't agree with his philosophy as I don't think it will bridge the gap to the top clubs and deliver us a CL title
A more attacking approach would help to bridge that gap as parking the bus and struggling to get out of our own half is definitely not the answer to winning the CL
If you are happy to do well in the league and don't want to win the CL then Allegri is fine for you but I want to see us win a CL so I judge him on what a team wanting to win the CL should judge him and for me it's not good enough bending over to any team who can play a bit of football
Watching us play it looks like very little attacking play is worked on at the training pitch, players movements are slow and random at times
Doesn't look like players are coached on which runs to make and who should be staying back, there is no way Chiellini should be venturing past the half way line for example in open play yet he finds himself in midfield at times moving the ball forward
We are far too static and there is not enough cohesive attacking play here
With proper movement from the other players he shouldn't have to go into midfield and should have options to give the ball to someone who can move the ball around better than him
It's not like we need a genius attacking coach in here, we don't even counter attack yet we play so deep as a team
A counter attack is basic and doesn't need the most detailed coaching to accomplish yet Allegri has never made us counter attack effectively on a consistent basis after 2015
Playing Mandzukic as a winger is a stupid tactic and I thought I would see the last of him there when we signed Costa and Berna yet he persists with a slow player who can't attack very well on the wing because he offers defensive cover
Playing him there as a sub on the wing to close out a game fine, playing him there for rotation in a lesser game fine
Starting him against Tottenham and being pinned back for the majority of the game is a huge fuck up on Allegri's part
There is no counter attack with him there and Tottenham didn't need to worry about a counter attack with him there
I don't see us winning the CL under Allegri so any coach that can get us playing good football with a balance of attack and defence is fine for me
I think hes a great coach but pointing to europe as the objective for us and saying a guy that has never won anything and fails in europe pretty bad is a bold statement
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I understand that you dont like his style but its extremely effective. I still would like you to name a coach who could have getten better results with our players? Zidane? Pep couldnt do it with Bayern. Are they not as talented of a team than ours?
I get it....I would love to be able to buy the type of players Madrid does. Have Bale and Isco and James type players coming off the bench but thats not where we stand as a club with our without max.
Saying our style is boring and whatever is fine but saying we underperform is one of the dumbest things ive heard in quite some time
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I understand that you dont like his style but its extremely effective. I still would like you to name a coach who could have getten better results with our players? Zidane? Pep couldnt do it with Bayern. Are they not as talented of a team than ours?
I get it....I would love to be able to buy the type of players Madrid does. Have Bale and Isco and James type players coming off the bench but thats not where we stand as a club with our without max.
Saying our style is boring and whatever is fine but saying we underperform is one of the dumbest things ive heard in quite some time
I love how this forum has made beautiful football synonymous with “unbalanced” or “naive” football. That’s just a coping mechanism to defend our boring style of play. More often than not, there’s a positive correlation between good football and good results.
As for Sarri, I don’t know whether he would be better than Allegri overall, but he would probably do a few things better than Max.
1. He wouldn’t play that non-entity Mandzukic on the wing.
2. He wouldn’t play the passenger Khedira in midfield. He would try to develop Bentancur instead.
3. He would play Dybala as a false 9 and get more out of him.
As for Sarri, I don’t know whether he would be better than Allegri overall, but he would probably do a few things better than Max.
1. He wouldn’t play that non-entity Mandzukic on the wing.
2. He wouldn’t play the passenger Khedira in midfield. He would try to develop Bentancur instead.
3. He would play Dybala as a false 9 and get more out of him.
In terms of results, very hard for anyone to do what he did. 3 doubles and 2 CL finals is simply fantastic. But the style in which we got those great results leaves a lot to be desired.
Now you are probably thinking "who cares about style, the result is all that matters". In some sense yes. Very few people would want Zeman here even if it meant super attacking football. But thats because Zeman means ZERO results.
The ideal state would be a balance between those two variables: Style & Results. Allegri scores low on style and high on results. Zeman is high on style bet a big nothing on results.
We are all familiar with some of the arguments favoring results over style.
1) Its the Juve way as a tradition to favor results even if it mean style is totally sacrified (compared to say Barca or Arsenal's tradition).
2) 10 years from now, no one will remember an attractive team that didnt win. History ultimately only remembers the winners. And finalists over semi-finalists.
3) You make more money in the CL the more you advance. Finalist Juve makes a few mills more than semi-finalist Juve.
Are there any strong arguments for style over results? I think there is and you might get the intuition for it if I asked you whether you'd rather Juve reached two semis instead of two finals but done so playing very attractive football in Serie A & in the CL upto that point. I am leaning towards a yes tbh.
I would take an attractive say Pep style Juve and exit in the semis over the current Juve which has better results. Why?
1) Entertainment value for myself. I'd be enjoying matches a lot more.
2) Entertainment value and appeal to new fans. I think we would be more popular as a club and make more money if we played attractive football.
Think of the fact that we are a team that won two doubles and reached 2 finals and yet very VERY rarely you'll see ay of the big football sites sharing videos of our goals, and very very rarely famous pundits talk about any of our players. If you look at Bleacher report, ESPN, Bein Sports and other giant english speaking broadcasters, they consistently share goals and golazos from teams like City, Pool, Madrid, Barca, PSG and Bayern (most of which dont match our results at all). You'll see them sharing anything about juve once in a blue moon because we rarely give them something worth sharing. They used to share some pogba screamers and the occasional dybala screamer now but thats about it. They arent being paid to share that (though some certainly are), but they have a natural incentive to share beautiful goals or movements because that means more clicks and more engagement with their page and so on.
If we are gonna compete with the richer clubs in the long term, we need to get rich ourselves. And so far I fear despite great results, our fanbase isnt growing as fast as it could be if we had a more attractive style.
If/when Allegri leaves, I want to see a new coach who can have good style and win things. If Sarri beats us to the league this season then tbh this should qualify him to manage a club of our size for sure.
Now you are probably thinking "who cares about style, the result is all that matters". In some sense yes. Very few people would want Zeman here even if it meant super attacking football. But thats because Zeman means ZERO results.
The ideal state would be a balance between those two variables: Style & Results. Allegri scores low on style and high on results. Zeman is high on style bet a big nothing on results.
We are all familiar with some of the arguments favoring results over style.
1) Its the Juve way as a tradition to favor results even if it mean style is totally sacrified (compared to say Barca or Arsenal's tradition).
2) 10 years from now, no one will remember an attractive team that didnt win. History ultimately only remembers the winners. And finalists over semi-finalists.
3) You make more money in the CL the more you advance. Finalist Juve makes a few mills more than semi-finalist Juve.
Are there any strong arguments for style over results? I think there is and you might get the intuition for it if I asked you whether you'd rather Juve reached two semis instead of two finals but done so playing very attractive football in Serie A & in the CL upto that point. I am leaning towards a yes tbh.
I would take an attractive say Pep style Juve and exit in the semis over the current Juve which has better results. Why?
1) Entertainment value for myself. I'd be enjoying matches a lot more.
2) Entertainment value and appeal to new fans. I think we would be more popular as a club and make more money if we played attractive football.
Think of the fact that we are a team that won two doubles and reached 2 finals and yet very VERY rarely you'll see ay of the big football sites sharing videos of our goals, and very very rarely famous pundits talk about any of our players. If you look at Bleacher report, ESPN, Bein Sports and other giant english speaking broadcasters, they consistently share goals and golazos from teams like City, Pool, Madrid, Barca, PSG and Bayern (most of which dont match our results at all). You'll see them sharing anything about juve once in a blue moon because we rarely give them something worth sharing. They used to share some pogba screamers and the occasional dybala screamer now but thats about it. They arent being paid to share that (though some certainly are), but they have a natural incentive to share beautiful goals or movements because that means more clicks and more engagement with their page and so on.
If we are gonna compete with the richer clubs in the long term, we need to get rich ourselves. And so far I fear despite great results, our fanbase isnt growing as fast as it could be if we had a more attractive style.
If/when Allegri leaves, I want to see a new coach who can have good style and win things. If Sarri beats us to the league this season then tbh this should qualify him to manage a club of our size for sure.
False. One team's football can be attractive and efficient. Sarri's Napoli however is only beautiful, go watch all the times they've been naive against top and decent teams.
How would he manage all three competitions?
How would he manage big games in CL?
How would he rotate the team?
What mentality will he showcase at a big club?
How would he manage all three competitions?
How would he manage big games in CL?
How would he rotate the team?
What mentality will he showcase at a big club?
Yeah if you want style Max leaves a lot to be desired. And I agree with you that it could bring some more money potentialy but thats a big if and thats the only fair argument ive heard. To claim that Max is failing and his tactics are bad is insane. To say they are boring and we would rather lose more and play pretty is fine but there is no argument for Max being a bad coach or until we could get a Pep or something he is by far our best option
Go look at all the times we’ve been naive in big games. Trying to press high with Khedira and Pjanic in midfield, trying to play on the counter with Mandzukic on the wing. Subbing Morata off against Bayern which killed our attacking threat. Keeping Pirlo on for the entire final when he was clearly a passenger.
Allegri hasn’t just been naive against superior opposition, look at how badly he managed the supercoppa against Lazio or the game against Tottenham last week.
Would Sarri have done better or worse in those situations? Nobody knows. He’s currently doing an amazing job with a decent team. That’s all we know.
Allegri hasn’t just been naive against superior opposition, look at how badly he managed the supercoppa against Lazio or the game against Tottenham last week.
Would Sarri have done better or worse in those situations? Nobody knows. He’s currently doing an amazing job with a decent team. That’s all we know.
Sarri is doing an amazing job losing in Europe and Cups to Shaktar, Feyenoord, RB Leipzig, Villarreal, Atalanta, Inter, etc in his time at Napoli. All those powerhouses with clearly superior squads and spending power to Napoli. How could anyone ever ask Sarri to compete with such mightiness. 