Massimiliano Allegri (229 Viewers)
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Everyone laugh at @Osman for getting riled up at those 2 dolts. 
By quite a margin.
Damn, this is actually more bs than I expected.
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Enrique recieved quite bit of spanking in Serie a few seasons ago. Then he goes to Barca and wins treble. Tells you all you need to know how important coaching role is for teams like Bayern or Barcelona.
As far as last year's results are concerned Max should have been on the list. Arguably he had better season than Guardiola.
Agreed with the rest btw
My nigga. 
By quite a margin.
Damn, this is actually more bs than I expected.- - - Updated - - -
Enrique recieved quite bit of spanking in Serie a few seasons ago. Then he goes to Barca and wins treble. Tells you all you need to know how important coaching role is for teams like Bayern or Barcelona.
Sure, but expressing one's opinion isn't. 
As far as last year's results are concerned Max should have been on the list. Arguably he had better season than Guardiola.
Agreed with the rest btw
My nigga.
Everyone laugh at @Osman for getting riled up at those 2 dolts. 
My nigga.
My nigga.
It's majority of the other posters in this topic that was the issue. Alot here can't get past their basic biases/ hatred and give some the due they deserve.
Mourinho improved Madrid thats for sure. But he did not improve them enough to be better than Barca despite being given unlimited money and getting all the players he asked for. A league title and a cup in 3 years are a failure in that regard. The manner in which it ended too (losing the dressing room) and going crazy on TV is also pretty embarrassing. Mourinho peaked at Inter and since then he is in steady decline.
He had Alonso and bought Modric and Khedira all 3 of which are world class. He also bought Sahin and Essien. Granero, Lassana Diarra and Gago were also available to him at some point. These are all CMs. The money he spent was insane.
So again, he improved them a lot yes but he did not get them to any insane level.
Guardiola took over a good squad yes but one that finished a miserable third and that had to lose its greatest ever player in Ronaldinho. He built one of the most successful sides in history. He has been doing nothing spectacular since then, it is very normal to win budesliga and CL semi-final in Bayern not an achievement.
I'll give Guardiola something though, he can make teams unstoppable in the leagues. I can only dream Juve can dominate their opponents domestic and foreign like Bayern does.
He had Alonso and bought Modric and Khedira all 3 of which are world class. He also bought Sahin and Essien. Granero, Lassana Diarra and Gago were also available to him at some point. These are all CMs. The money he spent was insane.
So again, he improved them a lot yes but he did not get them to any insane level.
Guardiola took over a good squad yes but one that finished a miserable third and that had to lose its greatest ever player in Ronaldinho. He built one of the most successful sides in history. He has been doing nothing spectacular since then, it is very normal to win budesliga and CL semi-final in Bayern not an achievement.
I'll give Guardiola something though, he can make teams unstoppable in the leagues. I can only dream Juve can dominate their opponents domestic and foreign like Bayern does.
You may continue discussion here
http://www.bayernforum.com/personnel-f8/pep-guardiola-t10274-2415.html
http://www.bayernforum.com/personnel-f8/pep-guardiola-t10274-2415.html
ignoring Klin and W from now on. guys never say anything related for the discussion, only post smileys and stupid remarks and Klin is obviously still butthurt over some things in the summer and getting banned twice. but if they dont have anything better to do in life than following a few people on a forum around then i cant help them either
as for the discussion, i think even if people disagree who the better coach is, everyone here agrees that Allegri should be over Guardiola on that list for this year. his nearly treble winning season is as impressive as Enriques, and those two should both be on the list considering they coached their teams to a CL final and won all domestic trophies. there was a Copa America this year, so a coach that won it should normally also be there. now one could argue about others being ahead of the Chile coach because the Copa America was his only competition this year and that others have had better success over the whole year (like coaching Lazio to 3rd place and a Coppa Italia final or getting to EL final with Dnipro etc.) but overall, those 3 deserve the list the most, so including Guardiola in it who won only BL and failed at both DFB Pokal and German Super Cup as well as getting trashed in CL semifinal with a top3 team in the world is a joke
about the Balon dor, i dont think one can simply look at number of goals and take it as an argument of how much superior Messi and Ronaldo are to the rest. like winning trophies, goals are more often than not also the product of team play. you wont score 50 goals a year playing for inter for example, simply because the team wont provide you enough scoring opportunities and the team wont go full attack mode in the last ~20 minutes after having a comfortable lead. there are ofcourse goals that come from individual brilliance like the ones Messi scores after dribbling past few players or Ronaldos long distance shots but they are rarer than the "team goals". the main criteria for who wins this award should be the level of performance in CL knock out games (and WC/EURO etc., if there is one that year) as well as other important club and NT games (like CL/WC group stage and domestic leagues deciding games, derbies, and close tied games decided by that one player). before someone says Messi and Ronaldo also score in important games, im not talking about goals alone. im talking about their level of performance all game and carrying the team (disappearing for 90 minutes and then scoring from a perfectly executed attack from the team is not carrying the team for example). im not gonna say Messi or Ronaldo didnt deserve each of their Balon dors, im not gonna go analyzing their performances from previous years and look for other players that might have be considered, but if they both were the best players in the games i mentioned above during those years they won, and if they both didnt win because "we score the most goals, our teams win La Liga + CL", then they deserve their awards. i dont want to go into further off topic so thats it
as for the discussion, i think even if people disagree who the better coach is, everyone here agrees that Allegri should be over Guardiola on that list for this year. his nearly treble winning season is as impressive as Enriques, and those two should both be on the list considering they coached their teams to a CL final and won all domestic trophies. there was a Copa America this year, so a coach that won it should normally also be there. now one could argue about others being ahead of the Chile coach because the Copa America was his only competition this year and that others have had better success over the whole year (like coaching Lazio to 3rd place and a Coppa Italia final or getting to EL final with Dnipro etc.) but overall, those 3 deserve the list the most, so including Guardiola in it who won only BL and failed at both DFB Pokal and German Super Cup as well as getting trashed in CL semifinal with a top3 team in the world is a joke
about the Balon dor, i dont think one can simply look at number of goals and take it as an argument of how much superior Messi and Ronaldo are to the rest. like winning trophies, goals are more often than not also the product of team play. you wont score 50 goals a year playing for inter for example, simply because the team wont provide you enough scoring opportunities and the team wont go full attack mode in the last ~20 minutes after having a comfortable lead. there are ofcourse goals that come from individual brilliance like the ones Messi scores after dribbling past few players or Ronaldos long distance shots but they are rarer than the "team goals". the main criteria for who wins this award should be the level of performance in CL knock out games (and WC/EURO etc., if there is one that year) as well as other important club and NT games (like CL/WC group stage and domestic leagues deciding games, derbies, and close tied games decided by that one player). before someone says Messi and Ronaldo also score in important games, im not talking about goals alone. im talking about their level of performance all game and carrying the team (disappearing for 90 minutes and then scoring from a perfectly executed attack from the team is not carrying the team for example). im not gonna say Messi or Ronaldo didnt deserve each of their Balon dors, im not gonna go analyzing their performances from previous years and look for other players that might have be considered, but if they both were the best players in the games i mentioned above during those years they won, and if they both didnt win because "we score the most goals, our teams win La Liga + CL", then they deserve their awards. i dont want to go into further off topic so thats it
I made that mistake i told you. Im not backing out. I dont want to focus on allegri vs Pep. What bothered me is that you say that Pep is clearly the better because he won with big teams. I already told you why i think this logic is flawed, because im pretty sure allegri would have won the same things as pep with those teams.
Someone else said that not all good coaches could win with great teams, and cited capello and mou.... but IMO even this logic cant apply with Barcelona and Bayern because those 2 teams are above "great". They simply are too good in comparison with anyone else..and you need to be a real retard to not win anything with those 2 teams if you are a pro coach. Also Mou had to face the very best team in the form of barza, so he could be given credit for winning the 2011-12 liga
Bottom line, ill not say Pep is the better of the lot until he coaches a decent to good team instead of winning with the very best there is. Your affirmation is what bothered me and im focusing on it. Forget about Pep Vs allegri..as i dont want to discuss that.
So there it is, the reason why i quoted your affirmation, which is Pep.
conte lol.
Even when i get hypertension from some of allegri´s decitions... its clear like day that Allegri is more tactically aware than Conte and more eager to try things.
Conte may be a master psychologist, but has a long way to go as a tactician.
Someone else said that not all good coaches could win with great teams, and cited capello and mou.... but IMO even this logic cant apply with Barcelona and Bayern because those 2 teams are above "great". They simply are too good in comparison with anyone else..and you need to be a real retard to not win anything with those 2 teams if you are a pro coach. Also Mou had to face the very best team in the form of barza, so he could be given credit for winning the 2011-12 liga
Bottom line, ill not say Pep is the better of the lot until he coaches a decent to good team instead of winning with the very best there is. Your affirmation is what bothered me and im focusing on it. Forget about Pep Vs allegri..as i dont want to discuss that.
So there it is, the reason why i quoted your affirmation, which is Pep.
Of course that Conte's guerilla would disagree.
Even when i get hypertension from some of allegri´s decitions... its clear like day that Allegri is more tactically aware than Conte and more eager to try things.
Conte may be a master psychologist, but has a long way to go as a tactician.
Let me try with basket. Jordán is the best cuz he was the best + makes his Team the best... Lebrón isn't the best cuz he's the best but he doesn't make his Team the best... could you see It? Remember this, if messi doesn't win anything important with his NT, maradona would be consider by far a best player than messi... The only fucking thing that matters in Futbol is Victory...
Answer this: I bet almost all people here could name last 5 champions in europe cup and world cup. Now answer this: who was MVP? Who score most?
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Messi and CR7 are gonna be next to distefano if they don't win anything with his NT. Not around maradona or pele
Answer this: I bet almost all people here could name last 5 champions in europe cup and world cup. Now answer this: who was MVP? Who score most?
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Messi and CR7 are gonna be next to distefano if they don't win anything with his NT. Not around maradona or pele
Your random post would make sense if the competition was between Messi and Maradona for any given year, like it would be if was between Jordan and LeBron. But what you suddenly detour to is the subject of the best ever in the said sport. And not what it was about, who is the best player currently for the given years in yearly awards...
It's simply rich to jump away from better then Sneijder for that single year to Jordans and Maradonas.
It's simply rich to jump away from better then Sneijder for that single year to Jordans and Maradonas.
Lebrón is the best basketball player by far. Curry won everything last year. Who was the best? Curry
Again. Team sport, winning is the only thing It matters. As you said, if you took out three games of messi that season , you would see he just showed up against mediocre teams...
I brought Jordán, maradona, cuz you don't get It. If you are the best, you have to stand up when It matters most. Thats why you are the best. 2010 messi didn't do It just one time. Period
Again. Team sport, winning is the only thing It matters. As you said, if you took out three games of messi that season , you would see he just showed up against mediocre teams...
I brought Jordán, maradona, cuz you don't get It. If you are the best, you have to stand up when It matters most. Thats why you are the best. 2010 messi didn't do It just one time. Period
