They r amazing but dont be blind about It. Uefa and Fifa would do anything to makes this two best players in the world as long as they can
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Massimiliano Allegri (243 Viewers)
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They (FIFA) dont NEED to. The two crazy players are effortessly outcompeting everyone else, its not their fault no one else can keep up whatsoever. Both are all time level historical players. Normal top players dont compete with players at that level. Why is it so hard to give their obvious dues? I mean who the fvck likes of Sneijder in comparison? Has one top year in his whole career and even then not half of what they do, and he completely dissapears to mediocrity afterwards, why would you need some conspiracy to easily prove you are better likes of that?
So in years when Messi or Ronaldo win nothing but the most unbalanced of the top leagues in Europe, they deserve the Ballon d'Or? Please, oh please tell me with a straight face that Messi or Ronaldo would score as many goals as they do every year without a team that costs 100+ million euros around them, playing against teams that aren't bankrupt or on the verge of bankruptcy. I will put it in my signature.
What have either of them ever done on the international stage, also? Ronaldo, one Euro final 11 years ago, lost to Greece, Messi, one World Cup final, two Copa America finals surrounded by the most talented Argentina team of all time... Not so magnificent, particularly for the supposed greatest player of all time. The greatest player of all time isn't supposed to vanish in the biggest match of his career.
The Ballon d'Or isn't supposed to be for the player adjudged to be the most talented player in the world regardless of performances, or the one who sells the most merchandise, it's for the player who had the best season. Since FIFA took over the award it's gotten worse than ever, look at the players that won their previous World Player of the Year award (although I firmly applaud them for not giving one to Michael Owen - lol), that says all you need to know - it's always the biggest faces on the Nike and Adidas billboards.
What have either of them ever done on the international stage, also? Ronaldo, one Euro final 11 years ago, lost to Greece, Messi, one World Cup final, two Copa America finals surrounded by the most talented Argentina team of all time... Not so magnificent, particularly for the supposed greatest player of all time. The greatest player of all time isn't supposed to vanish in the biggest match of his career.
The Ballon d'Or isn't supposed to be for the player adjudged to be the most talented player in the world regardless of performances, or the one who sells the most merchandise, it's for the player who had the best season. Since FIFA took over the award it's gotten worse than ever, look at the players that won their previous World Player of the Year award (although I firmly applaud them for not giving one to Michael Owen - lol), that says all you need to know - it's always the biggest faces on the Nike and Adidas billboards.
Same arguments recycled every year. Previous to them it was Sheva's Henry's and Eto'os, and they were considered the best when scoring 20-30 goals in stacked top teams. These two raised the level, its that simple. You wanna beat them, reach their level. Easy to blame it on some machinery or all kind of reasons under the sun. But compete with them on the pitch, just do it and then you can shut it. But guess what, if you do, you are the one they will market and hype, thats you do for your prime brand builders...
Same arguments recycled every year. Previous to them it was Sheva's Henry's and Eto'os, and they were considered the best when scoring 20-30 goals in stacked top teams. These two raised the level, its that simple. You wanna beat them, reach their level. Easy to blame it on some machinery or all kind of reasons under the season. But compete with them on the pitch, just do it and then you can shut it. But guess what, if you do, you are the one they will market and hype, thats you do for your prime brand builders...
Neymar is about to get close to it, let me guess, instead of give him his credit if/when he does, you will say the same juvenile crap you are saying about the above two...
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There is, for CL and WC they give awards based on positions. Golden ball is for overall, and yeah attack rules the world, and the two best at it are the ones who are doing this:
Nothing more complicated then that really. Consistency in top individual excellence. Sports are meritocratic activities, you give the accolades to those who stand out and take the limelight.
Neymar is about to get close to it, let me guess, instead of give him his credit if/when he does, you will say the same juvenile crap you are saying about the above two...
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There is, for CL and WC they give awards based on positions. Golden ball is for overall, and yeah attack rules the world, and the two best at it are the ones who are doing this:
Nothing more complicated then that really. Consistency in top individual excellence. Sports are meritocratic activities, you give the accolades to those who stand out and take the limelight.
Same arguments recycled every year. Previous to them it was Sheva's Henry's and Eto'os, and they were considered the best when scoring 20-30 goals in stacked top teams. These two raised the level, its that simple. You wanna beat them, reach their level. Easy to blame it on some machinery or all kind of reasons under the season. But compete with them on the pitch, just do it and then you can shut it. But guess what, if you do, you are the one they will market and hype, thats you do for your prime brand builders...
Neymar is about to get close to it, let me guess, instead of give him his credit if/when he does, you will say the same juvenile crap you are saying about the above two...
- - - Updated - - -
There is, for CL and WC they give awards based on positions. Golden ball is for overall, and yeah attack rules the world, and the two best at it are the ones who are doing this:
Nothing more complicated then that really. Consistency in top individual excellence. Sports are meritocratic activities, you give the accolades to those who stand out and take the limelight.
Neymar is about to get close to it, let me guess, instead of give him his credit if/when he does, you will say the same juvenile crap you are saying about the above two...
- - - Updated - - -
There is, for CL and WC they give awards based on positions. Golden ball is for overall, and yeah attack rules the world, and the two best at it are the ones who are doing this:
Nothing more complicated then that really. Consistency in top individual excellence. Sports are meritocratic activities, you give the accolades to those who stand out and take the limelight.
OK you got it wrong dude, maybe it was my bad for not explaining it better.
My comment about Pep not being the best is totally unrelated to allegri. I dont mind allegri not be there TBH. I dont rate him much and thats no secret. If you want to be a blind sheep then do so, is not of my concern.
He has a lot to prove yet, specially this season, but even myself, i can say that is werd that Guardiola is selected and allegri isnt, because he almost got a treble and i think its fair enought to say he should appear on the list.
Returning to Pep, it seems you misinterpreted that i was referring to allegri being better than him... no, i didnt meant that and dont care about that to be honest.
what irks me is that people like you ride on the Guardiola hype train and believe that he is all that..when in fact he has inherited the most 2 poewerful teams of the last 20 years,
Even dufus like rudy garcia or del neri would have excelled with those teams.
So lets see what Pep can do with a team that is not golden spooned to him before saying he is so good plz?
My comment about Pep not being the best is totally unrelated to allegri. I dont mind allegri not be there TBH. I dont rate him much and thats no secret. If you want to be a blind sheep then do so, is not of my concern.
He has a lot to prove yet, specially this season, but even myself, i can say that is werd that Guardiola is selected and allegri isnt, because he almost got a treble and i think its fair enought to say he should appear on the list.
Returning to Pep, it seems you misinterpreted that i was referring to allegri being better than him... no, i didnt meant that and dont care about that to be honest.
what irks me is that people like you ride on the Guardiola hype train and believe that he is all that..when in fact he has inherited the most 2 poewerful teams of the last 20 years,
Even dufus like rudy garcia or del neri would have excelled with those teams.
So lets see what Pep can do with a team that is not golden spooned to him before saying he is so good plz?
I see its the back pedaling championship day...Llike the others you litterally bolded and quoted my post saying Pep is ofcourse better then Allegri, since that was the contention with the topic itself, I have little interest in how top or spoon feed Pep is, except that he is obviously one of the handful top coaches around who excelled coaching top teams, regardless of however different ways people want to pick that apart. He has shown and proven more then Allegri, and I repeat again, YOU BOLDED me saying ofcourse Pep is better coach then the guy who's thread we are in. And asked based on what? The sole and single thing that started you engaging me and me replying to you, and you back away from it and focus ranting in general about Pep and talk about Del Neri's and violin fgtry wifebeaters? Go ahead. Doesnt interest me if you sidestep completely the only reason you even replied to me to begin with.
Kinda screws with the sneijder argument tbh.
He led Inter to a trebble, whilst Barcelona was amazingly stacked and good. Possibly breaking the biggest chance in history for a consecutive CL title yet (or 3 in a row).
he then took a not so far above average Holland all the way into the final, where he was 4 minutes away from penalties to defeat.
Sorry, while messi and ronaldo scored a metric fuckload of goals, Sneijder was more important to his team, and got the results to back that up. He should have won
One thing about it tho. So allegri getting juve into a trebble chance final, but poor start = not even on the fucking list (he should always have at least been on the list). So the start of the new season is very important !
Ronaldo : outscored everyone but didnt win shit so gtfo
Messi : 58 goals last year, merely 4 goals this year (injury), won the trebble
Neymar : 39 goals last year, but 16 goals this year , won the trebble, best player in the world atm
Therefore neymar should win it. If we apply the "no allegri" logic, Neymar should most definatly win it
He led Inter to a trebble, whilst Barcelona was amazingly stacked and good. Possibly breaking the biggest chance in history for a consecutive CL title yet (or 3 in a row).
he then took a not so far above average Holland all the way into the final, where he was 4 minutes away from penalties to defeat.
Sorry, while messi and ronaldo scored a metric fuckload of goals, Sneijder was more important to his team, and got the results to back that up. He should have won
One thing about it tho. So allegri getting juve into a trebble chance final, but poor start = not even on the fucking list (he should always have at least been on the list). So the start of the new season is very important !
Ronaldo : outscored everyone but didnt win shit so gtfo
Messi : 58 goals last year, merely 4 goals this year (injury), won the trebble
Neymar : 39 goals last year, but 16 goals this year , won the trebble, best player in the world atm
Therefore neymar should win it. If we apply the "no allegri" logic, Neymar should most definatly win it
No it DOES NOT screw with the Sneijder argument, Zidane is an all time general midfielding great, Sneijder is just a player who had a inconsistent top season, mid-level players. If Zidane wins or get close to an award in CL or WC winning years, its because he is outstanding or dominating, leads and inspires his team to these accolades in big way.
For the last time, Balon d'or is an individual award not a team award, wrap your head around that (if one only wants to count CL or WC tourno's, you should suffice with the individual awards given for them). And most importantly 2010 was 5 years ago, not 50 years ago. I can remember pretty much all the games in general way. Sneijder was pretty much nothing special until spring time (Where is @Alen when you need his stats to show how mediocre this guy was in Serie A throughout) around CL playoffs and being one of the better players in WC finalist. He was a overall real good player in playoff games for successful teams (or 1 successful team, the other was best loser) That is far from enough to automatically make him the best player. If the argument was Milito it would made much more sense, but since he wasnt part of succesfull team in WC like Sneijder, somehow its forgotten he was WAY better then Sneijder for Inter.
For the last time, Balon d'or is an individual award not a team award, wrap your head around that (if one only wants to count CL or WC tourno's, you should suffice with the individual awards given for them). And most importantly 2010 was 5 years ago, not 50 years ago. I can remember pretty much all the games in general way. Sneijder was pretty much nothing special until spring time (Where is @Alen when you need his stats to show how mediocre this guy was in Serie A throughout) around CL playoffs and being one of the better players in WC finalist. He was a overall real good player in playoff games for successful teams (or 1 successful team, the other was best loser) That is far from enough to automatically make him the best player. If the argument was Milito it would made much more sense, but since he wasnt part of succesfull team in WC like Sneijder, somehow its forgotten he was WAY better then Sneijder for Inter.
Nedved won the ballon d'or when he had an exceptional season. He was also good in seasons before and afterwards, but was in the shadow of the huge competition of all time greats back then.
The balon d'or is a price for the player who was the most important to the teams result and individual brilliance, DURING THAT YEAR.
Sneijder was as important as milito for inter, but made the difference in big games, and had a good world cup. And since you like messi, you know that its not easy to perform for both club and country.
Seriously Osman, the balon d'or isnt a fucking yearly reminder who's the biggest talent of the past years. Its that specific year.
If we would use the current rules in 2003, nedved wouldnt have even made the last 3. Zidane would have won it ahead of Henry and shevshenko
The balon d'or is a price for the player who was the most important to the teams result and individual brilliance, DURING THAT YEAR.
Sneijder was as important as milito for inter, but made the difference in big games, and had a good world cup. And since you like messi, you know that its not easy to perform for both club and country.
Seriously Osman, the balon d'or isnt a fucking yearly reminder who's the biggest talent of the past years. Its that specific year.
If we would use the current rules in 2003, nedved wouldnt have even made the last 3. Zidane would have won it ahead of Henry and shevshenko
No it wouldnt, because Nedved performed better then Zidane that year. The competition were closer individually in those years. A Sneijder who happens to be real good for successful teams does not make individually best players, its that simple (his TEAM won CL, Ronaldo and Messi were top scorer and 2nd top scorer in same CL, how was he individually better then them? He was in a better team) His best games were qualifiers vs Shaktar and one semi game (scored), 2nd won was all defensive, and final was mostly Milito vs average Bayern defence). Its a combination of both when its a close call, but not when the quality difference individually is big.
And I cant take you seriously whatsoever anymore after you said Sneijder was as important as Milito for Inter. 100% performing for the whole season (again, Sneijder didnt stand out in league except few impressive freekick goals, wasnt consistent enough), deciding coppa final, scudetto final game and scoring twice in CL final. On top of scoring 30 goals. FFS Sneijder does not compare to that individually and consistently, revisionistic to say otherwise (how can you be the best player in the world when you arent even your teams best player?). He had some good long passes, scored in 1 one of the semis, but really his hype only started for real because Holland went to WC final, combine that with CL success, it was simply too blinding for alot to realize what he did before and after that period (unsuspringly was average first half of 2010-2011 season).
And I cant take you seriously whatsoever anymore after you said Sneijder was as important as Milito for Inter. 100% performing for the whole season (again, Sneijder didnt stand out in league except few impressive freekick goals, wasnt consistent enough), deciding coppa final, scudetto final game and scoring twice in CL final. On top of scoring 30 goals. FFS Sneijder does not compare to that individually and consistently, revisionistic to say otherwise (how can you be the best player in the world when you arent even your teams best player?). He had some good long passes, scored in 1 one of the semis, but really his hype only started for real because Holland went to WC final, combine that with CL success, it was simply too blinding for alot to realize what he did before and after that period (unsuspringly was average first half of 2010-2011 season).
There is absolutely no argument for a player not named Ronaldo or Messi to have won a Ballon d'Or over the last 8 years. Attacking football is what dominates the modern game, scoring goals wins titles, in every league, in every cup. And those 2 players dominate in both scoring and assisting goals, Messi to a slightly larger degree.
Messi should absolutely win the Ballon d'Or for 2015. It's not even an argument. He was Barca's best player, top scorer, top assister for their treble. And even though I'm a massive Neymar fan, and think that without a doubt he's been the best player in football so far this new season, it doesn't overtake what Messi did in the first 3/4 of the window for this award, and the trophies he led Barca to.
Messi should absolutely win the Ballon d'Or for 2015. It's not even an argument. He was Barca's best player, top scorer, top assister for their treble. And even though I'm a massive Neymar fan, and think that without a doubt he's been the best player in football so far this new season, it doesn't overtake what Messi did in the first 3/4 of the window for this award, and the trophies he led Barca to.
You are hugely diminishing Sneijders value for the team. It truely stood out when he played at Holland that year, as he kept up his important role. Ask anyone from holland how good sneijder was that year. They'll talk about him, no one else.
You said you remember well. You forgot that nearly the entire inter team was poor as fuck when benitez took over. Eto'o was world class, sneijder was still good. In fact, everyone here was absolutely taking the piss on inter about them giving him bs over his contract. Benitez played in a way that was very static, no long balls for sneijder to send to, but he was still good.
I'll admit, sneijder is kinda depending on the system. Unlike Pirlo, he'll be less effective when the team plays in a way that he cannot take those long cracking passes.
You started this argument by saying sneijder was just good one year. I agree. Nedved was only superior to zidane and the others for one year. Both deserved it.
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Messi is obviously winning it. But if we consider that allegri's team beeing 5th in serie a and leading its CL group is enough to whipe out his near trebble last season, then apparently Neymar's insane display this season so far should give him an edge over messi.
Mind you, messi was having a "lesser" season last year. Neymar wasnt far off him. But he has been far superior so far.
I'm just saying, that they are using different weights, and thats annoying as fuck. Either Allegri makes the obvious list cause his amazing last season and good european results this season, and Messi wins. or apparently not doing well in domestic competition for 8 games is so important, and then neymar should win
You said you remember well. You forgot that nearly the entire inter team was poor as fuck when benitez took over. Eto'o was world class, sneijder was still good. In fact, everyone here was absolutely taking the piss on inter about them giving him bs over his contract. Benitez played in a way that was very static, no long balls for sneijder to send to, but he was still good.
I'll admit, sneijder is kinda depending on the system. Unlike Pirlo, he'll be less effective when the team plays in a way that he cannot take those long cracking passes.
You started this argument by saying sneijder was just good one year. I agree. Nedved was only superior to zidane and the others for one year. Both deserved it.
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Messi is obviously winning it. But if we consider that allegri's team beeing 5th in serie a and leading its CL group is enough to whipe out his near trebble last season, then apparently Neymar's insane display this season so far should give him an edge over messi.
Mind you, messi was having a "lesser" season last year. Neymar wasnt far off him. But he has been far superior so far.
I'm just saying, that they are using different weights, and thats annoying as fuck. Either Allegri makes the obvious list cause his amazing last season and good european results this season, and Messi wins. or apparently not doing well in domestic competition for 8 games is so important, and then neymar should win