out now?


  • Total voters
    166
  • Poll closed .

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,941
Wrong, Do you know who barca have as a backup for Suarez ?? exactly, no one, for Neymar and Messi they only have Pedro, and they throw a couple of youngsters like jonathan when they are crushing other teams.

In the MF ? who they have as backups, Xavi and a couple of youngsters IIRC ( Sergio Roberto and Tiago ), Same thing for the defence, their deepest position is the GK, yet they won the treble this year.

I don't mind depth but it should comes after improving our starting eleven, don't need depth when you have more glaring needs in your starting eleven.
So Barcelona are lucky with injuries I guess. Because we would have suffered badly last year with their policy.

Their style and system throughout the youth set up helps a lot, it would be very difficult for us to implement something similar at this stage, although I know that is what we are working towards.
 

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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,334
Wrong, Do you know who barca have as a backup for Suarez ?? exactly, no one, for Neymar and Messi they only have Pedro, and they throw a couple of youngsters like jonathan when they are crushing other teams.

In the MF ? who they have as backups, Xavi and a couple of youngsters IIRC ( Sergio Roberto and Tiago ), Same thing for the defence, their deepest position is the GK, yet they won the treble this year.

I don't mind depth but it should comes after improving our starting eleven, don't need depth when you have more glaring needs in your starting eleven.
Messi, Neymar and Suarez very rarely get injured though. They're not as robotic as Ronaldo, but they sure come close.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
damn it Cheesio, you simply dont want to understand

Tell me how ? How would 50 games be enough for 5 strikers playing 2 spots .??
1st, it wont always be 2 spots. Coman will mostly play in a 4-3-3 as i said already, because we will play that formation more than last season (Dybala, Draxler, Morata, Coman all can be used on the wings). and 2nd, you tell me how 50 games wouldnt be enough? take a look at this

2011/12: Vucinic 32 games, Matri 31 games, Quagliarella 23 games, Del Piero 23 games, Borriello 13 games
2012/13: Vucinic 31 games, Giovinco 31 games, Quagliarella 27 games, Matri 22 games, Bendtner 9 games/Anelka 2 games
2013/14: Tevez 34 games, Llorente 34 games, Quagliarella 17 games, Giovinco 17 games, Vucinic 12 games, Osvaldo 11 games
2014/15: Tevez 32 games, Llorente 31 games, Morata 29 games, Coman 14 games, Giovinco 7 games/Matri 5 games

this is league games only, without Coppa and CL. as you see, we always have 2 strikers that play 30+ games, and mostly a 3rd one that plays over 20 games and close to 30 games a season. based on this, we can predict the number of games our strikers will play next season: Morata, Mandzukic and Dybala close to/around/over 30 (depending on how far we go in the CL, injuries, how many midweek games we play etc.), Zaza and Coman 15-25 (depending on how many times they get subbed in/how many times we play 4-3-3)

So he can ask to leave next year, why not give Zaza's minutes to someone like Coman ?? we help develop him and nurtire his talent rather than buy Zaza to be a 4TH Choice striker.
yeah, why did we buy Pereyra. we have Vadala and are buying Draxler, should have gave Pereyras minutes from the bench to Vadala too. thats a silly argument. youre assuming Zaza will only play in meaningless games and when we have a 2 or 3 to 0 lead. Zaza is a rotation striker. he is a starter for Italy and a proven goalscorer in Serie A for 2 straight seasons. he will be getting us a lot of energy and goal scoring threat from the bench in close games as a sub. Coman, despite the fact i love him and im one of his biggest fans here, right now cant be delivering such an impact off the bench. he can play against the likes of Atalanta, Palermo etc. if we rest our starters or play a 4-3-3 for tactical reasons.

So we should play Morata out of position just to suit other players who are inferior to him as CF, great logic there :tup:
i see you like ignoring half of sentences to suit your argument. you remind me of Klin a bit in that regard. yes, Morata will play out of position SOMETIMES. and it wont be just to suit other players who are "inferior to him". it will be 1. for TACTICAL REASONS, against opponents Allegri decides he needs more presence in the box when playing them for example and 2. to rest some other players like Dybala or Draxler (potentially). and if you think Morata would have any problems playing with Mandzukic, espeically against low-mid table Serie A teams, then you have no clue about both players. Dybala-Morata is still the preferred duo, especially in knock out games in the CL, but you need to understand that they cant be playing 40+ games each, with Coman getting the other 20 or so.

Lol, money sitting in the bench does matter when you have areas in the starting eleven that needs improving, and i watched for 10/12 games max and i can tell you he's mediocre and he would never amount to anything special.
Buffon
Licht-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra
Khedira-Marchisio-Pogba
Draxler
Morata-Dybala

what exactly would you improve here. and with what available to buy player would you do it?

Zaza was an operation we started 2 seasons ago after he scored 18 goals in Serie B. we bought him in cheap, sold him twice which generated a positive effect on our finances, watched him for two seasons in Serie A in which he was scoring against most of the top teams constantly (Juve twice, Milan twice, Roma twice, Inter, Napoli...) and most of the goals came from his own effort like chasing the ball down, intercepting passes in build up play, scoring Quagliarellaesque screamers etc. he is capable of running with the ball and creating chances for himself, hes not a Matri type of poacher that is waiting in the box for service. he moves around a lot which also is giving more space for Draxler/Pogba/Khedira even Morata/Coman when playing on the wing to run into. the fact that all of Nedved, Paratici, Marotta and Allegri wanted him here, that he himself wanted to come here and fight for the minutes with such guys liek Morata Dybala and Mandzukic obviously shows that he is ready for a club like Juventus. dismissing him before even playing a game, and calling him mediocre on top of that is very naive. i expect better from you Cheesio

- - - Updated - - -

So Barcelona are lucky with injuries I guess. Because we would have suffered badly last year with their policy.

Their style and system throughout the youth set up helps a lot, it would be very difficult for us to implement something similar at this stage, although I know that is what we are working towards.
Barcelona are just pumping their players with all kind of drugs to be able to endure so many games. Messi for example played all 38 league games last season, Neymar 33 and Suarez 27 while missing half a season almost. Pedro played more than Suarez and Neymar, 35 games while they also had Munir playing 10 games
 
Jul 20, 2012
20,044
damn it Cheesio, you simply dont want to understand



1st, it wont always be 2 spots. Coman will mostly play in a 4-3-3 as i said already, because we will play that formation more than last season (Dybala, Draxler, Morata, Coman all can be used on the wings). and 2nd, you tell me how 50 games wouldnt be enough? take a look at this

2011/12: Vucinic 32 games, Matri 31 games, Quagliarella 23 games, Del Piero 23 games, Borriello 13 games
2012/13: Vucinic 31 games, Giovinco 31 games, Quagliarella 27 games, Matri 22 games, Bendtner 9 games/Anelka 2 games
2013/14: Tevez 34 games, Llorente 34 games, Quagliarella 17 games, Giovinco 17 games, Vucinic 12 games, Osvaldo 11 games
2014/15: Tevez 32 games, Llorente 31 games, Morata 29 games, Coman 14 games, Giovinco 7 games/Matri 5 games

this is league games only, without Coppa and CL. as you see, we always have 2 strikers that play 30+ games, and mostly a 3rd one that plays over 20 games and close to 30 games a season. based on this, we can predict the number of games our strikers will play next season: Morata, Mandzukic and Dybala close to/around/over 30 (depending on how far we go in the CL, injuries, how many midweek games we play etc.), Zaza and Coman 15-25 (depending on how many times they get subbed in/how many times we play 4-3-3)



yeah, why did we buy Pereyra. we have Vadala and are buying Draxler, should have gave Pereyras minutes to from the bench to Vadala too. thats a silly argument. youre assuming Zaza will only play in meaningless games and when we have a 2 or 3 to 0 lead. Zaza is a rotation striker. he is a starter for Italy and a proven goalscorer in Serie A for 2 straight seasons. he will be getting us a lot of energy and goal scoring threat from the bench in close games as a sub. Coman, despite the fact i love him and im one of his biggest fans here, right now cant be delivering such an impact off the bench. he can play against the likes of Atalanta, Palermo etc. if we rest our starters or play a 4-3-3 for tactical reasons.



i see you like ignoring half of sentences to suit your argument. you remind me of Klin a bit in that regard. yes, Morata will play out of position SOMETIMES. and it wont be just to suit other players who are "inferior to him". it will be 1. for TACTICAL REASONS, against opponents Allegri decides he needs more presence in the box when playing them for example and 2. to rest some other players like Dybala or Draxler (potentially). and if you think Morata would have any problems playing with Mandzukic, espeically against low-mid table Serie A teams, then you have no clue about both players. Dybala-Morata is still the preferred duo, especially in knock out games in the CL, but you need to understand that they cant be playing 40+ games each, with Coman getting the other 20 or so.



Buffon
Licht-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra
Khedira-Marchisio-Pogba
Draxler
Morata-Dybala

what exactly would you improve here. and with what available to buy player would you do it?

Zaza was an operation we started 2 seasons ago after he scored 18 goals in Serie B. we bought him in cheap, sold him twice which generated a positive effect on our finances, watched him for two seasons in Serie A in which he was scoring against most of the top teams constantly (Juve twice, Milan twice, Roma twice, Inter, Napoli...) and most of the goals came from his own effort like chasing the ball down, intercepting passes in build up play, scoring Quagliarellaesque screamers etc. he is capable of running with the ball and creating chances for himself, hes not a Matri type of poacher that is waiting in the box for service. he moves around a lot which also is giving more space for Draxler/Pogba/Khedira even Morata/Coman when playing on the wing to run into. the fact that all of Nedved, Paratici, Marotta and Allegri wanted him here, that he himself wanted to come here and fight for the minutes with such guys liek Morata Dybala and Mandzukic obviously shows that he is ready for a club like Juventus. dismissing him before even playing a game, and calling him mediocre on top of that is very naive. i expect better from you Cheesio

- - - Updated - - -



Barcelona are just pumping their players with all kind of drugs to be able to endure so many games. Messi for example played all 38 league games last season, Neymar 33 and Suarez 27 while missing half a season almost. Pedro played more than Suarez and Neymar, 35 games while they also had Munir playing 10 games
:tup:

Get ready to get attacked my messi fag boys and barca lovers
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
24,029
damn it Cheesio, you simply dont want to understand



1st, it wont always be 2 spots. Coman will mostly play in a 4-3-3 as i said already, because we will play that formation more than last season (Dybala, Draxler, Morata, Coman all can be used on the wings). and 2nd, you tell me how 50 games wouldnt be enough? take a look at this

2011/12: Vucinic 32 games, Matri 31 games, Quagliarella 23 games, Del Piero 23 games, Borriello 13 games
2012/13: Vucinic 31 games, Giovinco 31 games, Quagliarella 27 games, Matri 22 games, Bendtner 9 games/Anelka 2 games
2013/14: Tevez 34 games, Llorente 34 games, Quagliarella 17 games, Giovinco 17 games, Vucinic 12 games, Osvaldo 11 games
2014/15: Tevez 32 games, Llorente 31 games, Morata 29 games, Coman 14 games, Giovinco 7 games/Matri 5 games

this is league games only, without Coppa and CL. as you see, we always have 2 strikers that play 30+ games, and mostly a 3rd one that plays over 20 games and close to 30 games a season. based on this, we can predict the number of games our strikers will play next season: Morata, Mandzukic and Dybala close to/around/over 30 (depending on how far we go in the CL, injuries, how many midweek games we play etc.), Zaza and Coman 15-25 (depending on how many times they get subbed in/how many times we play 4-3-3)



yeah, why did we buy Pereyra. we have Vadala and are buying Draxler, should have gave Pereyras minutes from the bench to Vadala too. thats a silly argument. youre assuming Zaza will only play in meaningless games and when we have a 2 or 3 to 0 lead. Zaza is a rotation striker. he is a starter for Italy and a proven goalscorer in Serie A for 2 straight seasons. he will be getting us a lot of energy and goal scoring threat from the bench in close games as a sub. Coman, despite the fact i love him and im one of his biggest fans here, right now cant be delivering such an impact off the bench. he can play against the likes of Atalanta, Palermo etc. if we rest our starters or play a 4-3-3 for tactical reasons.



i see you like ignoring half of sentences to suit your argument. you remind me of Klin a bit in that regard. yes, Morata will play out of position SOMETIMES. and it wont be just to suit other players who are "inferior to him". it will be 1. for TACTICAL REASONS, against opponents Allegri decides he needs more presence in the box when playing them for example and 2. to rest some other players like Dybala or Draxler (potentially). and if you think Morata would have any problems playing with Mandzukic, espeically against low-mid table Serie A teams, then you have no clue about both players. Dybala-Morata is still the preferred duo, especially in knock out games in the CL, but you need to understand that they cant be playing 40+ games each, with Coman getting the other 20 or so.



Buffon
Licht-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra
Khedira-Marchisio-Pogba
Draxler
Morata-Dybala

what exactly would you improve here. and with what available to buy player would you do it?

Zaza was an operation we started 2 seasons ago after he scored 18 goals in Serie B. we bought him in cheap, sold him twice which generated a positive effect on our finances, watched him for two seasons in Serie A in which he was scoring against most of the top teams constantly (Juve twice, Milan twice, Roma twice, Inter, Napoli...) and most of the goals came from his own effort like chasing the ball down, intercepting passes in build up play, scoring Quagliarellaesque screamers etc. he is capable of running with the ball and creating chances for himself, hes not a Matri type of poacher that is waiting in the box for service. he moves around a lot which also is giving more space for Draxler/Pogba/Khedira even Morata/Coman when playing on the wing to run into. the fact that all of Nedved, Paratici, Marotta and Allegri wanted him here, that he himself wanted to come here and fight for the minutes with such guys liek Morata Dybala and Mandzukic obviously shows that he is ready for a club like Juventus. dismissing him before even playing a game, and calling him mediocre on top of that is very naive. i expect better from you Cheesio

- - - Updated - - -



Barcelona are just pumping their players with all kind of drugs to be able to endure so many games. Messi for example played all 38 league games last season, Neymar 33 and Suarez 27 while missing half a season almost. Pedro played more than Suarez and Neymar, 35 games while they also had Munir playing 10 games
:tup: Especially for Barca part.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
How about Chelsea, they named almost the same first eleven last year for most of the season? Can we assume that they also pump their players with all kinds of drugs?

Or is this only an accusation we use when it fits our agendas? Well it fits my agenda that Chelsea pump their players with all kinds of drugs, no wonder Mourinho always wins the league.

- - - Updated - - -

Messi, Neymar and Suarez very rarely get injured though. They're not as robotic as Ronaldo, but they sure come close.
Actually Messi has played slightly more games than Ronaldo. They are both super fit players though, as you say, almost robotic.
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
34,905
How about Chelsea, they named almost the same first eleven last year for most of the season? Can we assume that they also pump their players with all kinds of drugs?

Or is this only an accusation we use when it fits our agendas? Well it fits my agenda that Chelsea pump their players with all kinds of drugs, no wonder Mourinho always wins the league.
It's simply childish which you expect from the above posters.

No need to give them the attention they crave.

The post about Barça's youth system and setup from JuveJay is a pretty much spot on assessment on why they don't spend that much on depth.Even then, they bought Arda for €40m so pretty much every big team invests heavily in depth.

It's also clear why Juventus invest in depth heavily as well because that's what wins championships and Juventus' objective at present is win the scudetto and make last 8 of CL atleast.
I'd take that all day long tbh.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
It's simply childish which you expect from the above posters.

No need to give them the attention they crave.

The post about Barça's youth system and setup from JuveJay is a pretty much spot on assessment on why they don't spend that much on depth.Even then, they bought Arda for €40m so pretty much every big team invests heavily in depth.

It's also clear why Juventus invest in depth heavily as well because that's what wins championships and Juventus' objective at present is win the scudetto and make last 8 of CL atleast.
I'd take that all day long tbh.
Though to be honest, if you look at hard facts and numbers, Barcelona outspend the vast majority of teams out there. They spend a lot of money, they just spend it quite stupidly. Their saving grace is La Masia, if it weren't for that, everybody would be laughing at how terrible they are in the transfer market. So the one thing I see a lot of people saying that isn't true if you look at the numbers, is that Barca don't spend that much. They actually do, and the reason they don't have good depth is because they don't spend wisely IMO.
 

Klin

نحن الروبوتات
May 27, 2009
61,692
How about Chelsea, they named almost the same first eleven last year for most of the season? Can we assume that they also pump their players with all kinds of drugs?
We also did the same under Conte, especially in his first 2 seasons. Having said that, they used to praise our depth. :D
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
34,905
Though to be honest, if you look at hard facts and numbers, Barcelona outspend the vast majority of teams out there. They spend a lot of money, they just spend it quite stupidly. Their saving grace is La Masia, if it weren't for that, everybody would be laughing at how terrible they are in the transfer market. So the one thing I see a lot of people saying that isn't true if you look at the numbers, is that Barca don't spend that much. They actually do, and the reason they don't have good depth is because they don't spend wisely IMO.
True.Barça have the luxury of La Masia which we don't.

Point is Marotta shouldn't be criticized for buying depth because there is a clear vision in doing so
And that vision is winning the league every year.Good depth guarantees you that.
Winning the league also means better monetary incentives in terms of the market pool so people have to understand in more detail what the mgmt are try to do.
And so far it's been successful.Not suggesting its THE winning formula but improve revenues, this might be the step to take especially when we don't have the ability to buy star players right now.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,334
How about Chelsea, they named almost the same first eleven last year for most of the season? Can we assume that they also pump their players with all kinds of drugs?

Or is this only an accusation we use when it fits our agendas? Well it fits my agenda that Chelsea pump their players with all kinds of drugs, no wonder Mourinho always wins the league.

- - - Updated - - -



Actually Messi has played slightly more games than Ronaldo. They are both super fit players though, as you say, almost robotic.
Yes, but Messi has had notable injury spells with several muscle injuries.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Yes, but Messi has had notable injury spells with several muscle injuries.
At the start of his career he did have a few injuries which kept him out for long periods. But he's become super fit in the past few years, I'm fairly sure I saw statistics recently that showed that he'd played more games than any other offensive player in the past 4 years, albeit the difference between him and Ronaldo is probably negligible. My point is both are freaks of nature when it comes to fitness, they play an inordinate amount of games for offensive players.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,334
At the start of his career he did have a few injuries which kept him out for long periods. But he's become super fit in the past few years, I'm fairly sure I saw statistics recently that showed that he'd played more games than any other offensive player in the past 4 years, albeit the difference between him and Ronaldo is probably negligible. My point is both are freaks of nature when it comes to fitness, they play an inordinate amount of games for offensive players.

Oh I definitely agree. It's also why Barcelona don't really need much depth. Suarez is just as freaky by the way.
 

Cheesio

**********
Jul 11, 2006
22,514
The point i am trying to make is that if you are a top team and you have Top players for every spot in the starting eleven, you could survive not havin depth in a few positions, if you are missing one or two players, the quality you have elsewhere will hide those absence and you get by playing a few yougsters or average players like Padoin....
That's what Barca, Chelsea, Madrid, Bayern...do.
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
34,905
The point i am trying to make is that if you are a top team and you have Top players for every spot in the starting eleven, you could survive not havin depth in a few positions, if you are missing one or two players, the quality you have elsewhere will hide those absence and you get by playing a few yougsters or average players like Padoin....
That's what Barca, Chelsea, Madrid, Bayern...do.
We're not there yet,mate.

Financially speaking..
 

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