out now?


  • Total voters
    166
  • Poll closed .

Sad Statue

wannabe Bart Simpson
Mar 28, 2006
1,906
I wouldn't blame Allegri a lot. What can he do after all? Get in and play himself? He looks at the bench and he does not have any other options, so he does the same substitutions in every match. He is trying to change the system and the board does not support him. So, he has to use Vidal as an AMC and sub in the inefficient Pereyra when Vidal get's tired. Additionally, with using 2 of our MCs as AMCs and with Asa being out, we only have Marchisio - Pirlo - Pogba for the MC positions. He can't even refresh our midfield when he needs to.

The only thing I would blame him for is using the 4-3-1-2 instead of the 4-3-2-1. I think the latter one worked better. Our play was done through either one of our AMCs. So, it was more difficult to mark us out. In general by playing with 1 AMC, you can easily be marked out. It isn't worth it except in case you have someone exceptional in the AMC position (Vidal and Pereyra are far from exceptional in the position). Additionally, I think that both Tevez (who likes to be free and create) and Pereyra (who is a very good a winger and offers flair, speed, quick fit and width) have been far too better in a 4-3-2-1. I liked us more in this system and I can't see why we changed it.
 

Sad Statue

wannabe Bart Simpson
Mar 28, 2006
1,906
I wouldn't blame Allegri a lot. What can he do after all? Get in and play himself? He looks at the bench and he does not have any other options, so he does the same substitutions in every match. He is trying to change the system and the board does not support him. So, he has to use Vidal as an AMC and sub in the inefficient Pereyra when Vidal get's tired. Additionally, with using 2 of our MCs as AMCs and with Asa being out, we only have Marchisio - Pirlo - Pogba for the MC positions. He can't even refresh our midfield when he needs to.

The only thing I would blame him for is using the 4-3-1-2 instead of the 4-3-2-1. I think the latter one worked better. Our play was done through either one of our AMCs. So, it was more difficult to mark us out. In general by playing with 1 AMC, you can easily be marked out. It isn't worth it except in case you have someone exceptional in the AMC position (Vidal and Pereyra are far from exceptional in the position). Additionally, I think that both Tevez (who likes to be free and create) and Pereyra (who is a very good a winger and offers flair, speed, quick fit and width) have been far too better in a 4-3-2-1. I liked us more in this system and I can't see why we changed it.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,397
I wouldn't blame Allegri a lot. What can he do after all? Get in and play himself? He looks at the bench and he does not have any other options, so he does the same substitutions in every match. He is trying to change the system and the board does not support him. So, he has to use Vidal as an AMC and sub in the inefficient Pereyra when Vidal get's tired. Additionally, with using 2 of our MCs as AMCs and with Asa being out, we only have Marchisio - Pirlo - Pogba for the MC positions. He can't even refresh our midfield when he needs to.

The only thing I would blame him for is using the 4-3-1-2 instead of the 4-3-2-1. I think the latter one worked better. Our play was done through either one of our AMCs. So, it was more difficult to mark us out. In general by playing with 1 AMC, you can easily be marked out. It isn't worth it except in case you have someone exceptional in the AMC position (Vidal and Pereyra are far from exceptional in the position). Additionally, I think that both Tevez (who likes to be free and create) and Pereyra (who is a very good a winger and offers flair, speed, quick fit and width) have been far too better in a 4-3-2-1. I liked us more in this system and I can't see why we changed it.
Pereyra has not shown he is anything more than a utility player so far. Candreva is a very good winger. Willian is a very good winger. Lucas is a very good winger. Pereyra is not at their level.

I would blame allegri for not being able to stop the decline in performances especially against the big team. Usually against european teams we create a lot, waste a lot and are shaky in defense. While in Italy we were confident in winning against any italian team with very rare exceptions. Now against big Serie A teams we create very little, waste the little we create and are very shaky in defense as if we are playing in Europe. This is on a team level. We are worse than before.

On a player level, Llorente is playing like Amauri despite hitting great form last season. Vidal is slowly getting back to his old level while marchisio has improved. Our summer signings have been useless so far with Pereyra, Evra and Morata (in that order from bad to worst) not adding anything to the squad. The latter almost got red carded for diving twice.

I am sorry but Allegri so far is not doing any better than Conte's worst season with a better squad. He is arguably doing worse or at the very least not halting the decline.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,397
I wouldn't blame Allegri a lot. What can he do after all? Get in and play himself? He looks at the bench and he does not have any other options, so he does the same substitutions in every match. He is trying to change the system and the board does not support him. So, he has to use Vidal as an AMC and sub in the inefficient Pereyra when Vidal get's tired. Additionally, with using 2 of our MCs as AMCs and with Asa being out, we only have Marchisio - Pirlo - Pogba for the MC positions. He can't even refresh our midfield when he needs to.

The only thing I would blame him for is using the 4-3-1-2 instead of the 4-3-2-1. I think the latter one worked better. Our play was done through either one of our AMCs. So, it was more difficult to mark us out. In general by playing with 1 AMC, you can easily be marked out. It isn't worth it except in case you have someone exceptional in the AMC position (Vidal and Pereyra are far from exceptional in the position). Additionally, I think that both Tevez (who likes to be free and create) and Pereyra (who is a very good a winger and offers flair, speed, quick fit and width) have been far too better in a 4-3-2-1. I liked us more in this system and I can't see why we changed it.
Pereyra has not shown he is anything more than a utility player so far. Candreva is a very good winger. Willian is a very good winger. Lucas is a very good winger. Pereyra is not at their level.

I would blame allegri for not being able to stop the decline in performances especially against the big team. Usually against european teams we create a lot, waste a lot and are shaky in defense. While in Italy we were confident in winning against any italian team with very rare exceptions. Now against big Serie A teams we create very little, waste the little we create and are very shaky in defense as if we are playing in Europe. This is on a team level. We are worse than before.

On a player level, Llorente is playing like Amauri despite hitting great form last season. Vidal is slowly getting back to his old level while marchisio has improved. Our summer signings have been useless so far with Pereyra, Evra and Morata (in that order from bad to worst) not adding anything to the squad. The latter almost got red carded for diving twice.

I am sorry but Allegri so far is not doing any better than Conte's worst season with a better squad. He is arguably doing worse or at the very least not halting the decline.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
Not a lot of time to post anymore....kids, wife, job, training, training, training :)

I have noticed too many times this season that we start games pretty well and dominate but seem to run out of gas (and ideas??) in the second half of games.

While we used to be assured of wins once we would take the lead, I now find myself wondering how long it will take for our opponents to score before we can score a second and finish off the game. This game reminded me too much of the Super Coppa game against Napoli, where we should have put the game away, and let it slowly slip away.

Allegri is to blame, and if he doesn't figure out how to kill off opponents, then we could be risking the scudetto and any advancement in Europe
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
Not a lot of time to post anymore....kids, wife, job, training, training, training :)

I have noticed too many times this season that we start games pretty well and dominate but seem to run out of gas (and ideas??) in the second half of games.

While we used to be assured of wins once we would take the lead, I now find myself wondering how long it will take for our opponents to score before we can score a second and finish off the game. This game reminded me too much of the Super Coppa game against Napoli, where we should have put the game away, and let it slowly slip away.

Allegri is to blame, and if he doesn't figure out how to kill off opponents, then we could be risking the scudetto and any advancement in Europe
 

mondo1

Senior Member
May 14, 2006
10,585
juventus didnt play anything other than 3-5-2 in pre season and during first 2 months. it took back to back losses in CL and some poor form and injuries in the league before we switched. it wasnt planned. it was made out of desperation
According to allegri it was his plan to slowly get them to play 4-3-1-2. Just not from the very beginning.... He said something like "would be foolish to switch a winning formation to soon " or so.... Wanted them to get to know the new formation etc. And his words are pretty much all information that we have, cause none of us is actually close to the club. So I guess he wanted to switch formations and that is def. something our mgmt knew. So why didn't we get a amc? Also signing evra a real lb indicates that we planned for a four man back line
 

mondo1

Senior Member
May 14, 2006
10,585
juventus didnt play anything other than 3-5-2 in pre season and during first 2 months. it took back to back losses in CL and some poor form and injuries in the league before we switched. it wasnt planned. it was made out of desperation
According to allegri it was his plan to slowly get them to play 4-3-1-2. Just not from the very beginning.... He said something like "would be foolish to switch a winning formation to soon " or so.... Wanted them to get to know the new formation etc. And his words are pretty much all information that we have, cause none of us is actually close to the club. So I guess he wanted to switch formations and that is def. something our mgmt knew. So why didn't we get a amc? Also signing evra a real lb indicates that we planned for a four man back line
 

Sad Statue

wannabe Bart Simpson
Mar 28, 2006
1,906
Pereyra has not shown he is anything more than a utility player so far. Candreva is a very good winger. Willian is a very good winger. Lucas is a very good winger. Pereyra is not at their level.

I would blame allegri for not being able to stop the decline in performances especially against the big team. Usually against european teams we create a lot, waste a lot and are shaky in defense. While in Italy we were confident in winning against any italian team with very rare exceptions. Now against big Serie A teams we create very little, waste the little we create and are very shaky in defense as if we are playing in Europe. This is on a team level. We are worse than before.

On a player level, Llorente is playing like Amauri despite hitting great form last season. Vidal is slowly getting back to his old level while marchisio has improved. Our summer signings have been useless so far with Pereyra, Evra and Morata (in that order from bad to worst) not adding anything to the squad. The latter almost got red carded for diving twice.

I am sorry but Allegri so far is not doing any better than Conte's worst season with a better squad. He is arguably doing worse or at the very least not halting the decline.
I am not sure I agree with you.

I think Pereyra is ok as a b2b midfielder. But I really liked him as a right AMC in the 4-3-2-1 we were playing. I was impressed. He drifted wide and offered width. Quick feet. Flair. Speed. Nice crosses. Some intelligent passes. And combined really well with Tevez. Also, he didn't have to try to finish. I liked him a lot there. We dismantled Parma and made the Sampdoria match look easy. The problem is when you put him to play as the only AMC. That's a completely different story. Only a handful of players can play this role. It requires extreme vision and the ability to continuously change your moves, so you are not marked out. Kaka could do this. Sneijder could do it. Ozil can maybe do this. But there are not a lot of players that can do it. Be careful, I am not talking about a 4-2-3-1, or any system that the opponent will have to mark 2 or even 3 attacking midfielders and the attacks will do through 2 or 3 players. I am talking about a system that there will be only 1 AMC, who will be the focal point and will initiate the attacking efforts.

I would blame Allegri for changing the 4-3-2-1 that seemed to work so good in favor of the 4-3-1-2, especially at the time that we don't have a genuine AMC star player and we have to put Vidal/Pereyra in there. In 4-3-2-1 Pereyra, Tevez and also Llorente were better. I liked way more Tevez in there (he had space to move and create) and also Llorente was better (who has played his best football in Bilbao with such a system with Munian in the Tevez role and Susaeta in the Pereyra one).

Llorente is not good this year. But we are not helping him a lot as well. He often is alone in the area. With Conte, Tevez was playing next to Llorente, which helped the latter one. When Allegri let Tevez play in a more free role, he made Tevez better, but at the same time isolated Llorente a lot. Also, Vidal can't properly play the AMC role. He often goes back to help marking, because partly of Pirlo. So, Llorente is up there by himself. Of course Llorente's hesitation to shoot doesn't help, but the whole team does not help him as well.

Regarding the summer transfers, I can't tell that they are awesome or that we found our star player. But I am satisfied and far away from calling them useless. I explained about Pereyra. I like Evra. We seem to finally find a natural decent LB who can cross and has also developed a very good understanding with Pogba. Regarding Morata, he still tries to find his role. But he is far from disappointing. I would also say that his best form came in those 2 matches that we used the 4-3-2-1. He scored 3 goals in something like 30 minutes or so.

I can't blame Allegri for much of it. He looks at our bench and sees no game changer. He has to do the same substitutions game after game. Regarding the system, of course he knows a lot more than me and tries to shift towards this 4-3-1-2. As hard as I try though, I really can't see why. I will start blaming him if we change to 4-3-1-2 and use Sneijder in the hole. I would do that change only for an exceptionally good player. Only for the player Sneijder was 3 years ago for example. Right now, I see 4-3-2-1 as our best bet. Pereyra, Tevez and Llorente work optimally in this. The same can be said for Morata according to the stats. And I think it's the system Coman would excel as well. Screw Sneijder, sign Shaq, use Pereyra as his backup, have Coman as Tevez's backup (no big pressure on him but opportunities to rest Tevez), get Vidal to play as an MC again and we are set for the next 1-2 years.
 

Sad Statue

wannabe Bart Simpson
Mar 28, 2006
1,906
Pereyra has not shown he is anything more than a utility player so far. Candreva is a very good winger. Willian is a very good winger. Lucas is a very good winger. Pereyra is not at their level.

I would blame allegri for not being able to stop the decline in performances especially against the big team. Usually against european teams we create a lot, waste a lot and are shaky in defense. While in Italy we were confident in winning against any italian team with very rare exceptions. Now against big Serie A teams we create very little, waste the little we create and are very shaky in defense as if we are playing in Europe. This is on a team level. We are worse than before.

On a player level, Llorente is playing like Amauri despite hitting great form last season. Vidal is slowly getting back to his old level while marchisio has improved. Our summer signings have been useless so far with Pereyra, Evra and Morata (in that order from bad to worst) not adding anything to the squad. The latter almost got red carded for diving twice.

I am sorry but Allegri so far is not doing any better than Conte's worst season with a better squad. He is arguably doing worse or at the very least not halting the decline.
I am not sure I agree with you.

I think Pereyra is ok as a b2b midfielder. But I really liked him as a right AMC in the 4-3-2-1 we were playing. I was impressed. He drifted wide and offered width. Quick feet. Flair. Speed. Nice crosses. Some intelligent passes. And combined really well with Tevez. Also, he didn't have to try to finish. I liked him a lot there. We dismantled Parma and made the Sampdoria match look easy. The problem is when you put him to play as the only AMC. That's a completely different story. Only a handful of players can play this role. It requires extreme vision and the ability to continuously change your moves, so you are not marked out. Kaka could do this. Sneijder could do it. Ozil can maybe do this. But there are not a lot of players that can do it. Be careful, I am not talking about a 4-2-3-1, or any system that the opponent will have to mark 2 or even 3 attacking midfielders and the attacks will do through 2 or 3 players. I am talking about a system that there will be only 1 AMC, who will be the focal point and will initiate the attacking efforts.

I would blame Allegri for changing the 4-3-2-1 that seemed to work so good in favor of the 4-3-1-2, especially at the time that we don't have a genuine AMC star player and we have to put Vidal/Pereyra in there. In 4-3-2-1 Pereyra, Tevez and also Llorente were better. I liked way more Tevez in there (he had space to move and create) and also Llorente was better (who has played his best football in Bilbao with such a system with Munian in the Tevez role and Susaeta in the Pereyra one).

Llorente is not good this year. But we are not helping him a lot as well. He often is alone in the area. With Conte, Tevez was playing next to Llorente, which helped the latter one. When Allegri let Tevez play in a more free role, he made Tevez better, but at the same time isolated Llorente a lot. Also, Vidal can't properly play the AMC role. He often goes back to help marking, because partly of Pirlo. So, Llorente is up there by himself. Of course Llorente's hesitation to shoot doesn't help, but the whole team does not help him as well.

Regarding the summer transfers, I can't tell that they are awesome or that we found our star player. But I am satisfied and far away from calling them useless. I explained about Pereyra. I like Evra. We seem to finally find a natural decent LB who can cross and has also developed a very good understanding with Pogba. Regarding Morata, he still tries to find his role. But he is far from disappointing. I would also say that his best form came in those 2 matches that we used the 4-3-2-1. He scored 3 goals in something like 30 minutes or so.

I can't blame Allegri for much of it. He looks at our bench and sees no game changer. He has to do the same substitutions game after game. Regarding the system, of course he knows a lot more than me and tries to shift towards this 4-3-1-2. As hard as I try though, I really can't see why. I will start blaming him if we change to 4-3-1-2 and use Sneijder in the hole. I would do that change only for an exceptionally good player. Only for the player Sneijder was 3 years ago for example. Right now, I see 4-3-2-1 as our best bet. Pereyra, Tevez and Llorente work optimally in this. The same can be said for Morata according to the stats. And I think it's the system Coman would excel as well. Screw Sneijder, sign Shaq, use Pereyra as his backup, have Coman as Tevez's backup (no big pressure on him but opportunities to rest Tevez), get Vidal to play as an MC again and we are set for the next 1-2 years.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,348
I like this better
I was going to do that but couldn't remember how to spell it. :lol:

- - - Updated - - -

Not a lot of time to post anymore....kids, wife, job, training, training, training :)

I have noticed too many times this season that we start games pretty well and dominate but seem to run out of gas (and ideas??) in the second half of games.

While we used to be assured of wins once we would take the lead, I now find myself wondering how long it will take for our opponents to score before we can score a second and finish off the game. This game reminded me too much of the Super Coppa game against Napoli, where we should have put the game away, and let it slowly slip away.

Allegri is to blame, and if he doesn't figure out how to kill off opponents, then we could be risking the scudetto and any advancement in Europe
Welcome back.

We play the opposite than we did with Conte. With Conte we started games sluggishly and cautiously and eventually killed the game off in the 2nd half with a ground out 1-0 victory. Now, we seem to start gung-ho right out of the gate when the whistle blows. We surge forward non stop and eventually its going to kill our energy levels. In the 352 the wingbacks ran their tails off. We seem to be more attacking than under Conte and we get the quick goals but our sloppy finishing is killing us. With our bad finishing our final passing to our strikers is killing us to.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,348
I like this better
I was going to do that but couldn't remember how to spell it. :lol:

- - - Updated - - -

Not a lot of time to post anymore....kids, wife, job, training, training, training :)

I have noticed too many times this season that we start games pretty well and dominate but seem to run out of gas (and ideas??) in the second half of games.

While we used to be assured of wins once we would take the lead, I now find myself wondering how long it will take for our opponents to score before we can score a second and finish off the game. This game reminded me too much of the Super Coppa game against Napoli, where we should have put the game away, and let it slowly slip away.

Allegri is to blame, and if he doesn't figure out how to kill off opponents, then we could be risking the scudetto and any advancement in Europe
Welcome back.

We play the opposite than we did with Conte. With Conte we started games sluggishly and cautiously and eventually killed the game off in the 2nd half with a ground out 1-0 victory. Now, we seem to start gung-ho right out of the gate when the whistle blows. We surge forward non stop and eventually its going to kill our energy levels. In the 352 the wingbacks ran their tails off. We seem to be more attacking than under Conte and we get the quick goals but our sloppy finishing is killing us. With our bad finishing our final passing to our strikers is killing us to.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,397
What finishing? We created one chance other than the goal and it was down to Pogba's individual play. Handanovic did well to close his shooting angel and that was it. If anything Inter created more thanks to our great confident defense.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,397
What finishing? We created one chance other than the goal and it was down to Pogba's individual play. Handanovic did well to close his shooting angel and that was it. If anything Inter created more thanks to our great confident defense.
 

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