Massimiliano Allegri (405 Viewers)

[Bianconero81]

In addition to back to back 2nd place finish, we hit the bottom of the CL group against Hamburg and mighty Panathanaikos. Or did you forget hammering we received in Uefa cup, 4-0, against fucking Celta Vigo, a year before? Back then Juventus had one of the best squads on continent, with Zidane, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Inzaghi, Davids, etc... Was Ancelotti a fraudulent fuck as well?

You need to chill a bit.

Ancelotti was a relatively inexperienced coach back then. And yes, he was a fraudulent fuck considering our standards. Guess what? He got fired.

Hamburg and Panathinaikos are not Maccabi. We didn't lose 5 out of 6 games in that group stage, and he also did guide us to a semi-final in 99 after he inherited a Del Piero less squad from Lippi mid-season. Failegri hasn't learned shit in his two years away from the game. We have been embarrassing and our performances have been abysmal at best.

Now, stop throating and be objective.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[s4tch]

...Failegri hasn't learned shit in his two years away from the game...

that should be the bottom line of every allegri discussion. it makes me kinda sad as he always managed to find a way to make his team click somehow, but now he's way too locked in his ideas of slowing down the game, killing opposition, absorbing pressure and stuff

it was probably the undeserved home loss to manure that killed allegri 1.0. we played well and still lost, shit happens in football (and in life). and ironically we played the same match multiple times since his comeback: last season we played well against atalanta and inda, still couldn't win. again, shit happens. but it doesn't mean that giving up on possession, playing on counters (without many quick players) is the way to go.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

that should be the bottom line of every allegri discussion. it makes me kinda sad as he always managed to find a way to make his team click somehow, but now he's way too locked in his ideas of slowing down the game, killing opposition, absorbing pressure and stuff

it was probably the undeserved home loss to manure that killed allegri 1.0. we played well and still lost, shit happens in football (and in life). and ironically we played the same match multiple times since his comeback: last season we played well against atalanta and inda, still couldn't win. again, shit happens. but it doesn't mean that giving up on possession, playing on counters (without many quick players) is the way to go.

Great point about the Man United game back in 2018. We were in total control of that game until we weren’t.

He (and Juventus) haven’t been the same since.

 

[singus]

Great point about the Man United game back in 2018. We were in total control of that game until we weren’t.

He (and Juventus) haven’t been the same since.

We were in complete control up till 83rd minute when genius realized it was time to just defend and hand over the complete initiative, because 83rd minute, thats a rule, right?
Changed formation from 4-4-2 to 5-3-2 full Capello. Surprisingly it backfired, not undeserved at all.

 

[Scottish]

that should be the bottom line of every allegri discussion. it makes me kinda sad as he always managed to find a way to make his team click somehow, but now he's way too locked in his ideas of slowing down the game, killing opposition, absorbing pressure and stuff

What's really wild to me is how much he felt like a breath of fresh air when he first arrived. He loosened the reins and let the players play. Tactical masterplays like Mandzukic on the left flank but also playing CF at the same time. Setting up a lopsided team to maximise Alves. Not just any coach can lose the heart of the Berlin 11 and within two years forge a better one.

Now that's all gone. Confusing, disappointing and sad.

 

[LiquidPLP]

that should be the bottom line of every allegri discussion. it makes me kinda sad as he always managed to find a way to make his team click somehow, but now he's way too locked in his ideas of slowing down the game, killing opposition, absorbing pressure and stuff

it was probably the undeserved home loss to manure that killed allegri 1.0. we played well and still lost, shit happens in football (and in life). and ironically we played the same match multiple times since his comeback: last season we played well against atalanta and inda, still couldn't win. again, shit happens. but it doesn't mean that giving up on possession, playing on counters (without many quick players) is the way to go.

What's really wild to me is how much he felt like a breath of fresh air when he first arrived. He loosened the reins and let the players play. Tactical masterplays like Mandzukic on the left flank but also playing CF at the same time. Setting up a lopsided team to maximise Alves. Not just any coach can lose the heart of the Berlin 11 and within two years forge a better one.

Now that's all gone. Confusing, disappointing and sad.

Perhaps the joke is on us the fans and the club because we've had this expectation that he'd always find a way out. Even back then it looked bad at times and unsustainable in the long term.

The problem is that he's given a lot of credit for the past 'achievements' in a field that changes too much and too fast. Other big clubs realize this and tend to move on faster. Allegri fell behind the leading pack in his ways and approach yet it's necessary to explain all over again why he's not the man for the job and it was never a good idea to bring him back.

 

[s4tch]

Perhaps the joke is on us the fans and the club because we've had this expectation that he'd always find a way out. Even back then it looked bad at times and unsustainable in the long term.

no, it didn't. squad building with higher and higher wage bills while not being able to raise revenues accordingly looked unsustainable. always finding solutions to fix squad deficiencies looked genius and irreplaceable

The problem is that he's given a lot of credit for the past 'achievements'...

and also past achievements aren't appreciated anymore. look at turk, he thinks that conte won 9 scudetti

btw football didn't change too much. pressing became a norm, that's it. and neither juve squads are built for it, nor our coaches were able to adapt. the much bigger issue is that allegri is locked in his idea of reactive football, which is simply not working. this is a much weaker squad than the one we had in '18, still, it could - and should - play more proactive football and should have actual attacking gameplan. having to rely on washed up players and mental midgets isn't on allegri, not being able to make the squad play true to its abilities is only his fault though, just like the passive, negative approach on most "big" matches. it is simply not working, allegri 1.x would have realized that long ago.

 

[LiquidPLP]

no, it didn't. squad building with higher and higher wage bills while not being able to raise revenues accordingly looked unsustainable. always finding solutions to fix squad deficiencies looked genius and irreplaceable

Oh so we agree in the end? That's what I meant - the chopping of the squad led to 'let Allegri figure it out' when it comes to the squad and while the costs were rising, the quality on the pitch not necessarily along with it.

and also past achievements aren't appreciated anymore. look at turk, he thinks that conte won 9 scudetti

btw football didn't change too much. pressing became a norm, that's it. and neither juve squads are built for it, nor our coaches were able to adapt. the much bigger issue is that allegri is locked in his idea of reactive football, which is simply not working. this is a much weaker squad than the one we had in '18, still, it could - and should - play more proactive football and should have actual attacking gameplan. having to rely on washed up players and mental midgets isn't on allegri, not being able to make the squad play true to its abilities is only his fault though, just like the passive, negative approach on most "big" matches. it is simply not working, allegri 1.x would have realized that long ago.

The past achievements would be more appreciated if those you know, remained in the past along with Allegri's role in the club. Anti-Allegri cam doesn't need reminders of the past achievements but they disagree that someone should have a role simply because of those past achievements which is exactly the case with Allegri Any other coach would have been long gone in his place and rightly so.

Football has changed quite a bit because of 5 subs and exactly the pressing. These days even minnows come to our stadium and press which seems like surprised Allegro a lot. The lack of preparation of the offensive phase of the game was visible for years for some around here but most needed to hear that from the mister himself, lol.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

The lack of preparation of the offensive phase of the game was visible for years for some around here but most needed to hear that from the mister himself, lol.

This so much. We heard from the man himself he let the attackers fend for themselves which, let me be fair here, is IMO the way to go when you have the talent to back it up. Which has always been the case when Brazil had superstars in its past glory days.

Do you really think Zagallo would tell Romário what to do? It was well understood by everyone to just give him the ball and let him do his thing. Now that shit is never gonna fly with an average squad like what we have now, it needs proper coaching and it shows once again he’s clueless and totally out of his depth.

 

[Vlad]

Ancelotti was a relatively inexperienced coach back then. And yes, he was a fraudulent fuck considering our standards. Guess what? He got fired.

Hamburg and Panathinaikos are not Maccabi. We didn't lose 5 out of 6 games in that group stage, and he also did guide us to a semi-final in 99 after he inherited a Del Piero less squad from Lippi mid-season. Failegri hasn't learned shit in his two years away from the game. We have been embarrassing and our performances have been abysmal at best.

Now, stop throating and be objective.

I brought up that Juve cause standards and quality in the team were different. But even an abject failure as Ancelotti was, he was given 2 and a half seasons in a star studded team. We have nowhere near that quality and you expect better results. Semis? We were favorites to win the CL every season back then but he bottled it in semis after having 2-0 lead ffs.

Stop hating and be realistic.

 

[Post Ironic]

This so much. We heard from the man himself he let the attackers fend for themselves which, let me be fair here, is IMO the way to go when you have the talent to back it up. Which has always been the case when Brazil had superstars in its past glory days.

Do you really think Zagallo would tell Romário what to do? It was well understood by everyone to just give him the ball and let him do his thing. Now that shit is never gonna fly with an average squad like what we have now, it needs proper coaching and it shows once again he’s clueless and totally out of his depth.

We see how well it works with the right attackers when Di Maria is fit and in form. And if Chiesa was fully fit and in his form from 2020 we might have a half-decent “let them do their thing” attack this year because of those two. But even then, we don’t have the midfield to back them up. Nor are any of our strikers currently there.

He could do this with attackers like prime Tevez, Dybala, Higuain, and even Morty when he played off Tevez, because the first three were world class attackers and more importantly he had world class midfielders progressing the ball and controlling the matches.

But he sure as shit can’t do it with a young, inexperienced team that needs guidance more than anything. And he hasn’t shown he can adapt at all to the current squad he has.

 

[s4tch]

...Anti-Allegri cam doesn't need reminders of the past achievements...

and what about those dumbos who simply want to rewrite history? allegri won because of conte? allegri never was a good coach, only won because of individual brilliance? he was a failure because he (only him, alone, and maybe dybala, higuain and bonucci, the others usually get a pass) failed to win those cl finals?

there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting him out now obviously. the club sacked coaches for lot less and we can't afford an expensive coach that the players underperform with. but rewriting history on a regular basis and talking shit for the sake of it, those are tuz specials i won't take part in

 

[Bianconero81]

I brought up that Juve cause standards and quality in the team were different. But even an abject failure as Ancelotti was, he was given 2 and a half seasons in a star studded team. We have nowhere near that quality and you expect better results. Semis? We were favorites to win the CL every season back then but he bottled it in semis after having 2-0 lead ffs.

Stop hating and be realistic.

Ok. So you want to keep riding with Failegri, who has been an abject failure since his return. You might believe he has done well in your little world, but the results state otherwise. We're not progressing or improving with Failegri at the helm, and we're very likely to end the season trophyless, yet again. Two years = 0 trophies + endless embarrassment and humiliation. You are either purposely obstinate or you've been drinking that Failegri Koolaid for way too long.

You want to talk about squads? Serie A was "THE LEAGUE" back then. Currently, we have the most expensively coached and most expensively assembled squad in the division with the highest wage bill. We should be doing much better. STOP with the BS FFS!

 

[s4tch]

...Currently, we have the most expensively coached and most expensively assembled squad in the division with the highest wage bill. ...

we should be doing better, but not because of our wage bill

one of our biggest issues, or maybe even the biggest one is the terrible recruiting throughout the years. as you said we have the highest wage bill and most of those players wouldn't even deserve half of what they currently earn at juve. tek, bonucci, sandro, paredes, arthur, it's an endless list, and paredes qualifies as an allegri signing, the others are either on paratici or on bene+bini

that's why i've been parrotting for years that the squad must be fixed above anything else. we should hire an other coach, that's not up for debate, but imagine any coach trying to breath life into our available attackers, supported by this midfield. you could double their salaries, this squad would never score 75-80 goals and collect 90 points, not in a lifetime. and that is what our standard should be

Spoiler

luis campos

 

[singus]

Stitch, Vlad and PI in this thread Still trying to gain some ground whenever and wherever possible. Now the history books are not good enough, the fraud deserves MORE credit!

- - - Updated - - -

lol, there was an addition. "His squads were always ruined by others", "its amazing that he was able to put a new random team together, summer after summer".

The fraud has so high status that he cant be fired, he has been in our club for how many years now, 7? But he has no influence???
Its not his fault that our squad is always inconsistent?, players always out of position, players flopping here, only few if any ever getting developed, everyone needing replacement 1-2 years after having been here.

 

[Bianconero81]

Stitch and PI actually want Failegri gone. Learn to read and comprehend Dingus.

The deep throaters, to my knoweldge, are Vlad and the insufferable Juve123 - the latter is beyond redemption.

 

[Strickland]

we should be doing better, but not because of our wage bill

one of our biggest issues, or maybe even the biggest one is the terrible recruiting throughout the years. as you said we have the highest wage bill and most of those players wouldn't even deserve half of what they currently earn at juve. tek, bonucci, sandro, paredes, arthur, it's an endless list, and paredes qualifies as an allegri signing, the others are either on paratici or on bene+bini

that's why i've been parrotting for years that the squad must be fixed above anything else. we should hire an other coach, that's not up for debate, but imagine any coach trying to breath life into our available attackers, supported by this midfield. you could double their salaries, this squad would never score 75-80 goals and collect 90 points, not in a lifetime. and that is what our standard should be

Spoiler

luis campos

I sort of disagree with the notion that our squad is neccessarily terrible, I think we dont know the potential of the squad because they're coached by a terrorist.

F.e. Chelsea's defense under Lampard was terrible, then Tuchel came in and they won CL 90% thanks to great defending. I'm not saying Vlahovic, Chiesa, ADM, Milik etc are necessarily a great attack, but I suspect they're capable of a lot more than what they've shown under the terrorist.

 

[s4tch]

I sort of disagree with the notion that our squad is neccessarily terrible, I think we dont know the potential of the squad because they're coached by a terrorist.

F.e. Chelsea's defense under Lampard was terrible, then Tuchel came in and they won CL 90% thanks to great defending. I'm not saying Vlahovic, Chiesa, ADM, Milik etc are necessarily a great attack, but I suspect they're capable of a lot more than what they've shown under the terrorist.

you forgot kean, the former attacker prodigy, who was incredible for psg and his career was also ruined by allegri

yeah, you convinced me, that's certainly a 90 goal attack

 

[singus]

Stitch and PI actually want Failegri gone. Learn to read and comprehend Dingus.

The deep throaters, to my knoweldge, are Vlad and the insufferable Juve123 - the latter is beyond redemption.

lol, they barely want him gone, learn to comprehend Id say back, they are fooling you. They run to his defense at every small opportunity there is. They invested heavily in his defense previously and have a lot at stake it seems

 

[Strickland]

you forgot kean, the former attacker prodigy, who was incredible for psg and his career was also ruined by allegri

yeah, you convinced me, that's certainly a 90 goal attack

What I'm saying is we dont know how bad or good they are. Imo the attack isnt neccessarily as hopeless as theyve been under the terrorist.

Not a fan of Kean, still baffles me how a player that's good enough to start for maybe 2 or 3 clubs in Serie A can be a 35m player on a 3m salary. Imo both figures are ~3 times too big.