Massimiliano Allegri (72 Viewers)

[Vlad]

A simple question. Do you think the loss of a 35-40 goal striker without adequately replacing him has had no effect on the team?

Well he might think Kean or Kaio Jorge are adequate replacements. U never know.

 

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[s4tch]

Well he might think Kean or Kaio Jorge are adequate replacements. U never know.

conte would turn them into prime kaka and lukaku

 

[Jäger]

Well he might think Kean or Kaio Jorge are adequate replacements. U never know.

Allegri would probably say that he doesn't need a Ronaldo replacement, because this squad is fantastic enough as it is, so I'm told.

 

[campionesidd]

Allegri would probably say that he doesn't need a Ronaldo replacement, because this squad is fantastic enough as it is, or so I'm told.

That’s it for me.
You’re either a troll, an imbecile or most likely both. In any case, on the ignore list you go, and I don’t have to subject myself to your verbal diarrhea ever again.

 

[.zero]

This thread is the new Dybala thread

 

[Jäger]

That’s it for me.
You’re either a troll, an imbecile or most likely both. In any case, on the ignore list you go, and I don’t have to subject myself to your verbal diarrhea ever again.

Who are you again? Lol

 

[Post Ironic]

That’s it for me.
You’re either a troll, an imbecile or most likely both. In any case, on the ignore list you go, and I don’t have to subject myself to your verbal diarrhea ever again.

Just an imbecile who apparently has never heard of “fino alla fine.” At worst if they both win their match in hand we are 4 points off Atalanta and 5 points off Napoli with 16 rounds remaining and this dipshit says the sad reality is that we can’t finish top 4. Lol

 

[DAiDEViL]

Jäger?

More like Opfer.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

A simple question. Do you think the loss of a 35-40 goal striker without adequately replacing him has had no effect on the team?

The way people just brush this fact aside is hilarious.

Even Real Madrid struggled for a couple of seasons after Ronaldo left. A player who scores 30-40 goals a season will be massively missed unless you adequately replace them - which we’ve clearly failed to do.

With no Ronaldo last season we finish 5th or lower.

 

[Strickland]

The counter argument for Ronaldo's absence is his impact when joining a team. Its not like Juve scored 30 goals / season more with him, the others just scored 30 goals less. Same with United, I believe this year with Ronaldo they're scoring less than the season before. So, while it must be acknowledged that from the rotation of Morata-Dybala-Ronaldo we went to rotation of Morata-Dybala-Kean and thats obviusly a downgrade, I dont think its fair to say that selling Ronaldo cost us 30 goals and with Ronaldo in the team we'd be scoring as much as Inter. He might add 5 or 10 goals / season, but surely by now its obvious that it takes a toll on the team to play Ronaldo-centered footie and he isn't a silver bullet to a never ending list of trophies.

F.e. look at Dybala,

15/16 23 goals
16/17 19 goals
17/18 26 goals
on average 23 goals / season without Ronaldo

18/19 10 goals
19/20 17 goals
20/21 5 goals
on average 11 goals / season with Ronaldo

 

[Post Ironic]

The counter argument for Ronaldo's absence is his impact when joining a team. Its not like Juve scored 30 goals / season more with him, the others just scored 30 goals less. Same with United, I believe this year with Ronaldo they're scoring less than the season before. So, while it must be acknowledged that from the rotation of Morata-Dybala-Ronaldo we went to rotation of Morata-Dybala-Kean and thats obviusly a downgrade, I dont think its fair to say that selling Ronaldo cost us 30 goals and with Ronaldo in the team we'd be scoring as much as Inter. He might add 5 or 10 goals / season, but surely by now its obvious that it takes a toll on the team to play Ronaldo-centered footie and he isn't a silver bullet to never ending list of trophies.

And the counter argument here is that Ronaldo leaves and we are now significantly underperforming our xGoals for the first time in ages. With Higuain-Dybala, and with Ronaldo-whoever we always significantly outperformed our xGoals. Now we are at the very opposite end of the spectrum, worst in Serie A.

Having strikers who can score consistently is essential, and having a leading man who outperforms xGoals, because all the best strikers do, is also essential for a top European side. Our current ones, aside from Dybala, can’t even perform up to the average. Appalling finishing of chances this year, post-Ronaldo.

 

[campionesidd]

The counter argument for Ronaldo's absence is his impact when joining a team. Its not like Juve scored 30 goals / season more with him, the others just scored 30 goals less. Same with United, I believe this year with Ronaldo they're scoring less than the season before. So, while it must be acknowledged that from the rotation of Morata-Dybala-Ronaldo we went to rotation of Morata-Dybala-Kean and thats obviusly a downgrade, I dont think its fair to say that selling Ronaldo cost us 30 goals and with Ronaldo in the team we'd be scoring as much as Inter. He might add 5 or 10 goals / season, but surely by now its obvious that it takes a toll on the team to play Ronaldo-centered footie and he isn't a silver bullet to a never ending list of trophies.

F.e. look at Dybala,

15/16 23 goals
16/17 19 goals
17/18 26 goals
on average 23 goals / season without Ronaldo

18/19 10 goals
19/20 17 goals
20/21 5 goals
on average 11 goals / season with Ronaldo

Why just compare Dybala? Why not Chiesa and Morata? They have scored way fewer goals without Ronaldo.

 

[Strickland]

And the counter argument here is that Ronaldo leaves and we are now significantly underperforming our xGoals for the first time in ages. With Higuain-Dybala, and with Ronaldo-whoever we always significantly outperformed our xGoals. Now we are at the very opposite end of the spectrum, worst in Serie A.

Having strikers who can score is essential, having a lead man who outperforms xGoals, because all the best strikers do, is also essential for a top European side. Our current ones, aside from Dybala, can’t even perform up to the average. Appalling finishing of chances this year, post-Ronaldo.

Ronaldo himself almost never outperformed his xG though because the man isnt shy to shoot. For sure, I agree that we miss a quality scorer, its just that I dont think life would be much rosier with him in the roster, we probably would have a couple of goals more, but thats about it, surely not 15 goals more.

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Why just compare Dybala? Why not Chiesa and Morata? They have scored way fewer goals without Ronaldo.

Because Dybala is the only long term fixture thats worthy to compare, Chiesa and Morata have been here 1.5 seasons.

 

[campionesidd]

Ronaldo himself almost never outperformed his xG though because the man isnt shy to shoot. For sure, I agree that we miss a quality scorer, its just that I dont think life would be much rosier with him in the roster.

Oh it most certainly would be. Without Ronaldo, we don’t win the scudetto in 2019-20 and we’d be in the Conference League spots last year. I’m not saying we’d win the scudetto, but we’d easily be in the top 4, possibly in second place.

 

[Post Ironic]

Ronaldo himself almost never outperformed his xG though because the man isnt shy to shoot. For sure, I agree that we miss a quality scorer, its just that I dont think life would be much rosier with him in the roster, we probably would have a couple of goals more, but thats about it, surely not 15 goals more.

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Because Dybala is the only long term fixture thats worthy to compare, Chiesa and Morata have been here 1.5 seasons.

We’d have 5+ goals more imo. Because Ronaldo is a player who “isn’t shy to shoot” as you put it, and is perfect in those matches against smaller sides that park the bus. His teammates also constantly try to pick him out and being the best in the game at offball movement he invariably gets free pretty much every game. We saw it in the 2-2 with Udinese, when he scored the winner that was called back for him leaning mms “offside”. He is also constantly pushing the team forward and we have no one like that now, Chiesa sometimes but he isn’t the figure Ronaldo is and has been half-fit all year.

We win the matches against Venezia and shorthanded Nipples with Ronaldo in the side. We also probably win the match against Milan, and draw a couple of the Sassuolo, Empoli, Verona, Atalanta matches. I’d say we are definitely 6-10 points behind where we’d be with Ronaldo in the side. I don’t even think that’s really arguable. Add the low end of that, 6 points to our 41 and we’re sitting pretty right now, comfortably in 3rd place and still in the scudetto race.

 

[Mike-e-y]

The counter argument for Ronaldo's absence is his impact when joining a team. Its not like Juve scored 30 goals / season more with him, the others just scored 30 goals less. Same with United, I believe this year with Ronaldo they're scoring less than the season before. So, while it must be acknowledged that from the rotation of Morata-Dybala-Ronaldo we went to rotation of Morata-Dybala-Kean and thats obviusly a downgrade, I dont think its fair to say that selling Ronaldo cost us 30 goals and with Ronaldo in the team we'd be scoring as much as Inter. He might add 5 or 10 goals / season, but surely by now its obvious that it takes a toll on the team to play Ronaldo-centered footie and he isn't a silver bullet to a never ending list of trophies.

F.e. look at Dybala,

15/16 23 goals
16/17 19 goals
17/18 26 goals
on average 23 goals / season without Ronaldo

18/19 10 goals
19/20 17 goals
20/21 5 goals
on average 11 goals / season with Ronaldo

The impact of Ronaldo wasn’t that we scored more, you’re right. It’s that the goals weren’t shared, it became an ‘I need to pass to Ronaldo’ mentality.

The fall out of that after 3 years is a squad of players that got very used to shirking the goal scoring responsibility and now literally have no idea what to do to score. That’s why his leaving has certainly resulted in a drop in scoring output

 

[Strickland]

We’d have 5+ goals more imo. Because Ronaldo is a player who “isn’t shy to shoot” as you put it, and is perfect in those matches against smaller sides that park the bus. His teammates also constantly try to pick him out and being the best in the game at offball movement he invariably gets free pretty much every game. We saw it in the 2-2 with Udinese, when he scored the winner that was called back for him leaning mms “offside”. He is also constantly pushing the team forward and we have no one like that now, Chiesa sometimes but he isn’t the figure Ronaldo is and has been half-fit all year.

We win the matches against Venezia and shorthanded Nipples with Ronaldo in the side. We also probably win the match against Milan, and draw a couple of the Sassuolo, Empoli, Verona, Atalanta matches. I’d say we are definitely 6-10 points behind where we’d be with Ronaldo in the side. I don’t even think that’s really arguable. Add the low end of that, 6 points to our 41 and we’re sitting pretty right now, comfortably in 3rd place and still in the scudetto race.

Depends on where you put those 5 goals (which imo is a reasonable number) If we add those 5 goals to each of the games where we significantly underperformed our xG (knowing we need 5 I drew the line at 0.8, meaning if f.e. we scored none, but xG was 0.8 Id add one and if xG was 1.6 Id add two) we get 3 points more from Empoli, 0 points more against Torino, 1 more against Atalanta and 0 points more against Genoa, combining to a total of 4 points. So 6-10 points more really is arguable

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The impact of Ronaldo wasn’t that we scored more, you’re right. It’s that the goals weren’t shared, it became an ‘I need to pass to Ronaldo’ mentality.

The fall out of that aster 3 years is a squad of players that got very used to shirking the goal scoring responsibility and now literally have no idea what to do to score. That’s why his leaving has certainly resulted in a drop in scoring output

Fully agreed. Im expecting Allegri to fix that "have no idea what to do to score" problem. I don't think his usual approach of giving the players creative freedom in the final third particularly fits the profiles of Kean, Kulusevski or Bernardeschi.

 

[Post Ironic]

Depends on where you put those 5 goals (which imo is a reasonable number) If we add those 5 goals to each of the games where we significantly underperformed our xG (knowing we need 5 I drew the line at 0.8, meaning if f.e. we scored none, but xG was 0.8 Id add one and if xG was 1.6 Id add two) we get 3 points more from Empoli, 0 points more against Torino, 1 more against Atalanta and 0 points more against Genoa, combining to a total of 4 points. So 6-10 points more really is arguable

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Fully agreed. Im expecting Allegri to fix that "have no idea what to do to score" problem. I don't think his usual approach of giving the players creative freedom in the final third particularly fits the profiles of Kean, Kulusevski or Bernardeschi.

We also get 2 more points against Venezia which takes your 4 to 6. Verona would also have been a 2-2 draw adding another point taking that to 7 points. Also, Nonsense, because just having Ronaldo in the team adds a large number of xGoals by the very fact he isn’t shy to shoot as you put it. He moves better, gets on crosses better, runs onto passes better. Everything. And he is a player who rarely gets complacent and puts in half shifts against smaller clubs, he still has insane drive to score. Which helps push other players. I think we absolutely have 6+ pts more with him here and his 25-30 goals. Suggesting otherwise is ludicrous in my opinion, given we are scoring at the worst rate since the Del Neri era by a significant margin immediately after losing him, and a large part of that is his replacement Kean is on pace for 1/4 of Ronaldo’s goals.

 

[Strickland]

We also get 2 more points against Venezia which takes your 4 to 6. Also, Nonsense, because just having Ronaldo in the team adds a large number of xGoals by the very fact he isn’t shy to shoot as you put it. He moves better, gets on crosses better, runs onto passes better. Everything. And he is a player who rarely gets complacent and puts in half shifts against smaller clubs, he still has insane drive to score. Which helps push other players. I think we absolutely have 6+ pts more with him here and his 25-30 goals. Suggesting otherwise is ludicrous in my opinion, given we are scoring at the worst rate since the Del Neri era by a significant margin immediately after losing him, and a large part of that is his replacement Kean is on pace for 1/4 of Ronaldo’s goals.

Not by my methodology, the surplus xG here is 0.54
Venezia (0.43) 1:1 (1.54) Juventus

Again, I don't think Kean alone was supposed to replace Ronaldo goals, imo Morata sulking, Chiesa and Dybala being injured and Allegri having 0 ideas about attacking patterns are much bigger problems.

Look at United f.e., last season in total B.Fernandes had 28 goals, Rashford 21, Cavani 17, Greenwood 12 and Martial 7. This season Ronaldo has 14 so far and those guys that were scoring well previously have 18 goals combined. At this point last seasons combined goalscoring pace for them would've been closer to 50. Imo at this stage of his career Ronaldo gives as much as he takes away if the team has a somewhat functional attack. Ours isn't, so someone like Ronaldo still would've been useful, but in the long term I'm happy he's gone, surely he isnt worth the salary we paid.

 

[Post Ironic]

Not by my methodology, the surplus xG here is 0.54
Venezia (0.43) 1:1 (1.54) Juventus

Again, I don't think Kean alone was supposed to replace Ronaldo goals, imo Morata sulking, Chiesa and Dybala being injured and Allegri having 0 ideas about attacking patterns are much bigger problems.

Look at United f.e., last season in total B.Fernandes had 28 goals, Rashford 21, Cavani 17, Greenwood 12 and Martial 7. This season Ronaldo has 14 so far and those guys that were scoring well previously have 18 goals combined. At this point last seasons combined goalscoring pace for them would've been closer to 50. Imo at this stage of his career Ronaldo gives as much as he takes away if the team has a somewhat functional attack. Ours isn't, so someone like Ronaldo still would've been useful, but in the long term I'm happy he's gone, surely he isnt worth the salary we paid.

Your methodology sucks though and ignored the fact Ronaldo is a chance machine and our xGoals would be significantly higher from him alone. Also that adding him not a team and the focal shift that takes is detrimental in the same way losing him and the focal shift that takes is detrimental. He’s a monumental figure and influence on the pitch and that takes time to both adjust to and adjust away from. Our play has been patterned around him being the go to guy in attack for 3 years. Doesn’t matter who the coach coming in was, it’s absurd to think he was going to wave a magic wand and all of a sudden our attack wouldn’t be Ronaldo dependent. Morata is a career long poor finisher. Kean had a good season at PSG getting fed tap-ins mostly by some of the best chance creators jn all football. And Dybala and Chiesa have both missed a third of our matches before Chiesa’s season ender. We don’t have anyone like Ronaldo for players to look for in the box.

Anyways, it was always going to take time to rid the team of its Ronaldo focus. Silly to think it would be otherwise. By the end of the season I expect us to be doing better in attack, and we actually are scoring at a significantly higher rate in the past 11 league matches as opposed to the first 11. 19 goals vs 15 goals, so there is improvement there for sure. It’s not good enough still, but significantly better. 15 goals in 11 works out to an anemic 52 goals in 38 matches. 19 in 11 works out to 66 goals. I’d like to see us back up to a 70+ goal pace though. That’s the bare minimum for a successful team imo.

PS. I’m also happy he’s gone in the long term outlook.