Mario Mandžukić (73 Viewers)

[juve103423]

I'm pretty sure Mandzukic played a key role in opening up the defence to start this move by drawing an opposition defender on the right touchline and flicking the ball inside for a runner whilst getting fouled from behind/taking the opposition defender out of the game in the process.

There is a lot more to football than statistics and highlights of the end of moves. If you want to understand where a player is positioned in a move you need to view the phases before.

Mandzukic adds so much to this team that won't be seen on a statistic.

Ofcouse there is more to it, we all know that. But it is usually the very rare exception where you have a player who sucks on all production metrics and still is a key player for one of the best teams in football history. By that logic, we can't objectively rate any football player whatsoever.

Whatever it is he does, it is a hard fact that he is extremely isolated from the ball.
What is left is disagreement about how much he runs and opens up space for others. I find it hard to believe/understand that he can be such an important factor with intelligent runs, if he never has or does something with the ball. That is what is left for disagreement. Khedira has much higher measurable output, but contrary Mandzukic, he is mocked as a disgusting useless player. Its interesting.

 

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[s4tch]

Whatever it is he does, it is a hard fact that he is extremely isolated from the ball.

okay, how the fuck can anyone be the 2nd best scorer in the league for any team, and give 2nd most assists, while being EXTREMELY ISOLATED from the ball? please explain. thanks.

while at it, please find me finally some other strikers with a similar goal tally + similar defensive contribution. thanks. both are easy questions, you don't need 40000 characters to explain. make a point finally without sounding like a broken record. can you do that?

 

[Boksic]

Ofcouse there is more to it, we all know that. But it is usually the very rare exception where you have a player who sucks on all production metrics and still is a key player for one of the best teams in football history. By that logic, we can't objectively rate any football player whatsoever.

Whatever it is he does, it is a hard fact that he is extremely isolated from the ball.
What is left is disagreement about how much he runs and opens up space for others. I find it hard to believe/understand that he can be such an important factor with intelligent runs, if he never has or does something with the ball. That is what is left for disagreement. Khedira has much higher measurable output, but contrary Mandzukic, he is mocked as a disgusting useless player. Its interesting.

The thing is, you say of course there is more to it.But you clearly don't see it given that you use a short highlight as an example to your point.

I rebutted the example by explaining that Mandzukic started the move out wide and opened up the defence with his pass, yet you respond by saying that he does not open up space for others and cannot do something with the ball the absolute opposite of what I just said happened.

It is now clear that you are obviously trying not to see what he brings/trolling and there is absolutely no point in discussing Mandzukic with you.

 

[Post Ironic]

okay, how the fuck can anyone be the 2nd best scorer in the league for any team, and give 2nd most assists, while being EXTREMELY ISOLATED from the ball? please explain. thanks.

while at it, please find me finally some other strikers with a similar goal tally + similar defensive contribution. thanks. both are easy questions, you don't need 40000 characters to explain. make a point finally without sounding like a broken record. can you do that?

The best part of it all is that Mandzukic will continue starting; continue being a fan favourite; continue being praised by Allegri, by management, by his teammates, by pundits; continue being a large contributor to the team's success...

...and to provide amusement for all, one or two irrelevant phaggots on Tuz will continue endlessly bitching and crying about him.

 

[juve103423]

All that tireless running and hardcore sacrifice for his team. One of his main strengths and his fan-created trademark.

Please discuss

 

[campionesidd]

lol, crazy reactions and insults from super triggered post_ironic once again.

If you read carefully what I write, then you will see that nowhere do I claim that I am bringing the full account of all publicly available stats on Mandzukic. You are being ridiculous to believe I tried to run a peer review of a Mandzukic study here. So claiming that I am cherry picking or that I could have checked this site and that site and this very particular stat, is a bit absurd. You can bring them if they are relevant and significant compared to the rest of them, that we already have availbable. I added some examples, including tackles and interceptions which were some of the things mentioned as his strengths, so how is that cherry picking. I asked you guys to check his stats, one by one on whoscored (or whatever site that provides them) and notice how he is in the far bottom, on 9 out of 10 (90% of them). I didnt try to hide that he has scored an okay amount of goals and assists, or what it is you try to claim. You are not being objective enough or reading carefully enough, you just get ahead of yourself, in childish manner, nothing new about post_ironic.

To do the hard work, and make sure I am not accused of falsifying data, cherry picking or other great tuz scams, here, summing the basic stats up:
- okay amount of goals per min (2nd in team in Serie A, but Dybala winning it in CL)
- okay amount of assists per min (top 2-6, shared position in Serie A, nothing in CL)
- lower shots per game than most of our starters (#7 in the team)
- highest amount of arials
- number 9 in successfull tackles in the team (despite being our defending striker)
- number 16 best in interceptions
- 12 in passes blocked
- 7 in crosses blocked
- 12 in shots blocked
- 16th most dribbles (less than Szczesny in CL lol)
- 22th most passes, right above Perin and Szczesny
- 11th most keypasses

What else did I miss?
Did you find distance covered per 90min? would love to see it.

Do you make these dumb posts so everyone else can feel good about not being this stupid?

 

[DAiDEViL]

Do you make these dumb posts so everyone else can feel good about not being this stupid?

He belongs to the infamous "but but i just want to discuss" "you are not allowed to have a different opinion" group of posters.

 

[s4tch]

The best part of it all is that Mandzukic will continue starting; continue being a fan favourite; continue being praised by Allegri, by management, by his teammates, by pundits; continue being a large contributor to the team's success...

funny thing is that while mandzu is not the most technical or skilled player ever, he was a constant starter for every single club he played for. max 'the charlatan' allegri even switched formation to fit him in the starting lineup. mandzu was just lucky that max never checked whoscored i guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[juve103423]

You can discuss in private how to get back into this. It clearly knocked the wind out of you and you dont know how to explain the numbers with the theories you provided so far. Most of it has been debunked, and instead of being man enough to admit that you might have been wrong about some things (like ridiculing me for stating that he doesnt run more than the other players in our team), then you group together with more stupid insults and jokes.
Not a single comment on Mandzukic being one of our most static players lol.

But take it easy, I never tried to say he was piss poor. I have been saying that he is a tall bloke with good aerial abilities and a quite decent conversion with what he gets served in front of goal, pluss he creates some randomness due to his random appearances in attack and defense from time to time. Im just not giving in for the superman picture being painted of him in here. I consider him an Allegri favourite (a useful one when used right), just like he also favors Khedira, whom we all seemingly hate.

 

[zizinho]

Not a single comment on Mandzukic being one of our most static players lol.

because its quite irrelevant. we all know Mandzu plays the most important games at 100%, so average stats are just your meaningless attempt at discrediting him again. tactically he plays his role, and is pacing himself to perfection every season. only a fool would complain

 

[campionesidd]

because its quite irrelevant. we all know Mandzu plays the most important games at 100%, so average stats are just your meaningless attempt at discrediting him again. tactically he plays his role, and is pacing himself to perfection every season. only a fool would complain

Lazily jogging back and forth meanings nothing, and meters covered per 90 is a pretty useless stat for forwards. What's more important is how he Mandzukic helps during both phases: offensive and defensive. Very few players have the defensive work rate of Mandzu.

 

[Post Ironic]

because its quite irrelevant. we all know Mandzu plays the most important games at 100%, so average stats are just your meaningless attempt at discrediting him again. tactically he plays his role, and is pacing himself to perfection every season. only a fool would complain

Was Man of the match against Roma, Napoli, Valencia in the first half of the season according to his precious whoscored and man of the match against Roma, Napoli, Milan according to Lega Serie A official records. 4 of our most important matches this year.

Goals or assists against Napoli, Inter, Milan, Roma, Lazio, Atalanta, Valencia already.

 

[zizinho]

Lazily jogging back and forth meanings nothing, and meters covered per 90 is a pretty useless stat for forwards. What's more important is how he Mandzukic helps during both phases: offensive and defensive. Very few players have the defensive work rate of Mandzu.

its simple, there is 2 sides of the ball, offense and defense. just picture Mandzukic when we have the ball and what is he doing then? running around the midfield? and how many games of the 50 we play are against bottom ~10 serie A sides, where we hold the ball for majority of the game? its so simple but ProMoggi refuses to think for a moment and will only use stats as evidence

 

[Post Ironic]

Lazily jogging back and forth meanings nothing, and meters covered per 90 is a pretty useless stat for forwards. What's more important is how he Mandzukic helps during both phases: offensive and defensive. Very few players have the defensive work rate of Mandzu.

Yep, he plays a position where he is frequently standing around in or near the box when we hold possession and try to build up the attack. It's pretty clear from Allegri's tactics that Mario isn't supposed to be back running around the pitch trying to build up play while we have the ball. Which makes it obvious that he would run less than midfield players in matches where we have a lot of possession and teams our sitting back. Allegri wants him in the box, to get on the end of crosses and through balls put in, etc.

But it's also quite obvious, that in the sections of the matches where the other team is in the ascendancy and creating chances (usually the minority), that is when Mario does most have running and hard work, tracking back, making tackles and interceptions, helping the team defend.

But, ya know. Apparently average metres is most important. Because really jogging around in midfield passing the ball from player to player, as we control possession really shows much more hard work.

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its simple, there is 2 sides of the ball, offense and defense. just picture Mandzukic when we have the ball and what is he doing then? running around the midfield? and how many games of the 50 we play are against bottom ~10 serie A sides, where we hold the ball for majority of the game? its so simple but ProMoggi refuses to think for a moment and will only use stats as evidence

You beat me to it.

He's in or around the box, waiting for the team to put balls in for him to make runs onto. Which is the majority of matches we play, pretty much any team outside top 5 in Serie A or in the CL group stage. Of course he's going to cover less ground than those tasked with running around in midfield and on the flanks building up play.

 

[zizinho]

Yep, he plays a position where he is frequently standing around in or near the box when we hold possession and try to build up the attack. It's pretty clear from Allegri's tactics that Mario isn't supposed to be back running around the pitch trying to build up play while we have the ball. Which makes it obvious that he would run less than midfield players in matches where we have a lot of possession and teams our sitting back. Allegri wants him in the box, to get on the end of crosses and through balls put in, etc.

But it's also quite obvious, that in the sections of the matches where the other team is in the ascendancy and creating chances (usually the minority), that is when Mario does most have running and hard work, tracking back, making tackles and interceptions, helping the team defend.

But, ya know. Apparently average metres is most important. Because really jogging around in midfield passing the ball from player to player, as we control possession really shows much more hard work.

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You beat me to it.

He's in or around the box, waiting for the team to put balls in for him to make runs onto. Which is the majority of matches we play, pretty much any team outside top 5 in Serie A or in the CL group stage. Of course he's going to cover less ground than those tasked with running around in midfield and on the flanks building up play.

Ok, we debunked this one. whats next @juve103423 heatmaps?

 

[Post Ironic]

Ok, we debunked this one. whats next @juve103423 heatmaps?

It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t watch our matches but just looks at heatmaps and stats so he can come tell us that Mario doesn’t run a lot and never touches the ball. Also that he only scores tap-ins or goals on colossal defensive errors too because all his goals are from inside the box. .

 

[s4tch]

it's always the midfielders who run the most, and always the strikers that run the less. it shouldn't be a surprise for anyone. also, what is not obvious from any stat is the intensity. pjanic is moving constantly, because he's the centre of our game, and he always should be available. pirlo also moved without stopping, he always was in the top3 when it came to players' mileage. strikers tend to run less, with more intensity.

also, the stats this guy posted are based on cl matches alone where we constantly need a man upfront. guess who's that. and there you have the reason why mandzu has completely different stats for the cl and for serie a matches: we are playing with a different approach in the cl. anyone could tell it if he watched actual matches, but we can come to the same conclusions using STATS too.

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It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t watch our matches but just looks at heatmaps and stats so he can come tell us that Mario doesn’t run a lot and never touches the ball. Also that he only scores tap-ins or goals on colossal defensive errors too because all his goals are from inside the box. .

what about the assists tho. brilliant passers like dybala, costa, berna and co have either less or just as many assists as mandzukic.

fact is that mandzukic is our 2nd best attacker this term, and only the goat performs better than him upfront. there's no two ways about it.

 

[zizinho]

It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t watch our matches but just looks at heatmaps and stats so he can come tell us that Mario doesn’t run a lot and never touches the ball. Also that he only scores tap-ins or goals on colossal defensive errors too because all his goals are from inside the box. .

i like ProMoggi, hes a lot more fun to talk to than arrogant fools like pavle, but hes just wrong on Mandzukic. hell come around eventually i think

 

[juve103423]

Nah you didnt debunk anything. You (or some others) said that he was one of those running the most in the team and hailing his fitness levels and how he was such a superman. Thats not true, quite the opposite, and the dude doesnt even sprint past defenders like our wingers and Ronaldo does it when they run. Thats all there is to it. You can make up all the soft theories you want with your friend. The original premise was wrong. He is not making anymore sacrifices than anyone else, there is nothing factual that can be used to support that theory, the evidence we have, points AGAINST it. And my personal opinion and observation is also that he is not very mobile and hard working throughout the game. Our real warriors are other players not him. Lets give credit where it is due deserved and for the right things. I saw the these metrics a few years ago too. He was also completely in the bottom, it is not a new thing. That time it was stats for CL and Serie A too.

I will stop it here and let you continue the discussion if you wish. I think many of the numbers shows another side of the Mandzukic story and it is up to interpretation and personal opinion what to make of it.

I just hope we get the best out of him, and use him the in most effective way if Allegri has a boner for him as it seems. I think this will be his last season as a starter here anyway. Atleast I hope so, I think we can get another striker who can score more goals, while also assisting, running behind the defenses, dribble a man to cause some threat and who can have a higher passing accuracy than 60% and help setting Ronaldo more up too.

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i like ProMoggi, hes a lot more fun to talk to than arrogant fools like pavle, but hes just wrong on Mandzukic. hell come around eventually i think

Haha he will be in China or somewhere in Croatia before that happens!

 

[s4tch]

I will stop it here

so you failed to find an other striker with similar defensive contribution and goal+assist, didn't you?