Leonardo Bonucci (518 Viewers)

[juvefan27]

those stats, those stats cannot be true

Ok, please tell that to the good people at whoscored.com, I'm sure they'd appreciate your input as to where their stats are going wrong.

watching 85% of our games

As I imagine most of this forum does

That would be really interesting to do in the coming game vs Bayern

Ok, how about you do that? You do that, and we'll have a neutral member keep their own count. I have no way of knowing how Bonucci will perform, so it's not fixed against you.

You do that, and post your stats for us to see, as well as the neutral member.

Then, we'll have a neutral member and myself download FourFourTwo Stat Zone (powered by Opta) to their phone and check the whoscored stats, and we'll see what they say.

Then I and the neutral member will post the stats from the "official" sources.

And, of course, we'll be comparing Bonucci's stats to the rest of the defence.

What do you say?

 

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[Trequartista]

o those stats, those stats cannot be true, it would be interesting to see what they count as interception and tackle, i am eagerly awaiting to see Bonucci performing a tackle and i am always celebrating it when it happens, most of the times reporting it in here, or in the live match threads, but they are so freakin rare.

I am always present at matchdays when i am not working and i challenge anyone to count how many times Bonucci performs tackles and interceptions per game and how many times he let it for Barza...
If wasnt watching those games by myself, i could solely rely on those stats, but not after watching 85% of our games!

That would be really interesting to do in the coming game vs Bayern!
A game were our defenders will have to defend and shine for and from threir defending!
It would be a prime opportunity to see if those stats hold any water and how much they matter.

 

[Cronios]

just look at this video, this one of Bonucci's best appearances, look at this and tell me who he depossessed?
how many tackles he performed??

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1329190527108173&id=171522852874952


And then how many runs, dribbles, crosses, backheels, headers and shoots?
This is why Bonucci is rated, not his defending, never his defending!

And if you check this thread, you will notice that the praise is always about his offensive contributions, rather than his defensive work.
His defensive work solely relies on the fact that he is not even tries to defend, so that ha can avoid making mistakes

 

[Hust]

 

[juvefan27]

just look at this video, this one of Bonucci's best appearances, look at this and tell me who him depossessed?
how many tackles he performed??

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1329190527108173&id=171522852874952


And then how many runs, dribbles, crosses, headers and shoots?

You haven't answered my challenge.

You've picked the game, against what will be one of our hardest opponents this season, if not the hardest. Everything is to your advantage.

You keep your own Cronios count of Bonucci's stats (and the other defenders), we'll have a neutral poster do their own Bonucci stats.

I'll post his stats from whoscored and FourFourTwo (as well as the other defenders), and a neutral poster will do the same to prove I'm not lying.

If Bonucci is as bad as you say, you and the other poster doing your own scores will have him as far worse than Chiello/Barza.

If the stats are as flawed as you say, the neutral poster's stats will be far from the "official" ones.

So, I'll ask again, how about it?

 

[Hust]

He isn't going to answer your challenge. He will simply beat around the bush and avoid it.

 

[juvefan27]

He isn't going to answer your challenge. He will simply beat around the bush and avoid it.

I know he won't, but it just proves (once again) he can't make a logical argument. I'm letting him have the hardest game of the season to prove that Bonucci is by far our worst defender, and he won't accept it.

Just proves what I said on the last page: he knows he's wrong about Bonucci but he can't admit it. It's sad really.

 

[Cronios]

of course and i am in, actually not for that game alone, but for any that i participate, i always keep a close look at that anyway...
I constantly report them and his mistakes, but they ignore them and only come here to boast at games like tgat that we doninate and Bonucci doesnt have to defend, but showcase that he has more CM skills than our real defenders...

 

[juvefan27]

of course and i am in, actually not for that game alone, but for any that i participate, i always keep a close look at that anyway...

Ok, good.

We'll take the Bayern game as a case study, or you can nominate another game of your choosing.

Now, would any poster like to volunteer to do their own "Bonucci stats" for the Bayern game?

Or, Cronios, you can nominate someone.

And we'll need someone as well as me to post the whoscored and FourFourTwo stats after the match, to prove I'm not cheating.

So, to be clear:

We'll be counting what Bonucci does in the game, and comparing him with Barza or Chiellini or both (depending on the team). Then we can establish if A) Bonucci sucks B) He's much worse than our other defenders.

 

[Cronios]

we can do it live, maybe in a dedicated thread and noting the ones that the tv shows obviously, as we cant see the off the ball action, its not that hard if we only notice the important ones, like the interception he does on the opening of the video i posted.

As for the games, ussually the ones that focus on our defence, are the ones that our midfield cannot dominate, the Bayern game is likely to be such a game, it will unfortunately put a test to our defending to test!

 

[juvefan27]

we can do it live, maybe in a dedicated thread and noting the ones that the tv shows obviously, as we cant see the off the ball action, its not that hard if we only notice the important ones, like the interception he does on the opening of the video i posted.

Well that would only answer the question of whether there is a disparity between what you perceive in a game and what others perceive, it doesn't answer your "those stats cannot be real" point.

We can start a separate thread, with mod permission, but we need to see if you are right that the "official" stats are bogus.

How about we use just three categories: tackles, headers and interceptions.

All of those are on the ball, they won't be missed.

At the end of the game, you give us your stats for Bonucci and the other(s) at centre-back. A neutral poster gives his/hers.

I post the "official" stats, and a neutral poster does the same so you know I'm not lying.

Three categories, one game, your choice of match.

 

[Cronios]

yep, thats fine, 3 stats on 3 players is enough, and maybe we stould report the minute, so that we can verify it too with post match videos, there is time to organise it, just keep it simple and clear,3-4 forumers would be enough.
Of course stat services might discover more as they can see off ball happenings, deflections etc, but watching the ball, we will get the important ones

 

[juvefan27]

yep, thats fine, 3 stats on 3 players is enough, and maybe we stould report the minute, so that we can verify it too with post match videos, there is time to organise it, just keep it simple and clear

Ok, deal.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

needless to argue if bonbon is a good defender or not,
having 2 goals and 1 assist makes bonucci a DM anyway.

If he scores a few more, he can be considered an SS like Mandzukic

- - - Updated - - -

Bonucci is a CB and an Italian one, it is a gisgrace for an Italian CB not to know how to tackle, not to be able to man mark, not to be able to stop his man. A defender must above all be a protector of our territory, someone who can stop the opposition players of making succesful attacking efforts against us.
If the CB doesnt do it, then who will??
Bonucci surely cannot byhimself and he is always dependant on a Barzagli, or a Chiellini for that.
80% of the praise he gets is about his contribution at passing and the occassional contribution on the attack, but very rarely for his defensive duties.

I am not impressed by long balls and sort passes, i have experienced legender defenders like Thuram and Cannavaro in the center of our defence and i cannot erase those interceptions, tackles and man marking from my mind.
Its up to Bonucci to earn my respect by starting acting like an Italian CB, not like a misplaced CM...

I agree with you to a degree but, Bonucci is a CB and an Italian one, it is a gisgrace for an Italian CB not to know how to tackle, not to be able to man mark, not to be able to stop his man. A defender must above all be a protector of our territory, someone who can stop the opposition players of making succesful attacking efforts against us.
If the CB doesnt do it, then who will??
Bonucci surely cannot byhimself and he is always dependant on a Barzagli, or a Chiellini for that.
80% of the praise he gets is about his contribution at passing and the occassional contribution on the attack, but very rarely for his defensive duties.

I am not impressed by long balls and sort passes, i have experienced legender defenders like Thuram and Cannavaro in the center of our defence and i cannot erase those interceptions, tackles and man marking from my mind.
Its up to Bonucci to earn my respect by starting acting like an Italian CB, not like a misplaced CM...

 

[Klin]

Our defensive record has more to do with the fact that we have 3 CBs and 2 wingbacks and 3 CMs to support them, also one of the worlds greatest keepers, rather than Bonucci's individual defensive skills...

Bonucci is favored from all that, exactly as Guardiola is favored when he only had to coach the strongest and wealthiest teams/players in the world. Thats the perfect receipe of overhyping and overrating someone.

And as for Cannavaro, he was trully one of the world's best CBs, but many of our gay fans who like Bonucci more because of his looks, rather than his defending will not hesitate to compare them.

My golden standard is Iuliano, he was never great like Ferrara, or even Montero, let alone Thuram and Cannavaro, but he was no stranger to tacklings or man markings. Chiellini and Barzagli at this age are more capable defenders, but when you have to face a Lewa at Bayern and the game has to be decided by a one on one chance of our CB with him, would you pick Bonucci, or Iuliano to stop him???

Thaaats the golden standard right there, whoever fails the Iuliano test is not a Juve material CB in my books...

Maldini , Cafu ,Lizarazu, Zambro and Thuram were venerated for their offensive contributions, but they were also extremely capable at defending.The offensive play was just the extra that made the difference, not the only reason they were rated.
Bonucci is only praised for his passes and long balls, but never for his defensive work, when was the last time you remember him of depossessing anyone?? How many times this happens per season!

So your argument is Iuliano? How fucking random was that you troll?

 

[Azzurri7]

Bonucci is a CB and an Italian one, it is a gisgrace for an Italian CB not to know how to tackle, not to be able to man mark, not to be able to stop his man. A defender must above all be a protector of our territory, someone who can stop the opposition players of making succesful attacking efforts against us.
If the CB doesnt do it, then who will??
Bonucci surely cannot byhimself and he is always dependant on a Barzagli, or a Chiellini for that.
80% of the praise he gets is about his contribution at passing and the occassional contribution on the attack, but very rarely for his defensive duties.

I am not impressed by long balls and sort passes, i have experienced legender defenders like Thuram and Cannavaro in the center of our defence and i cannot erase those interceptions, tackles and man marking from my mind.
Its up to Bonucci to earn my respect by starting acting like an Italian CB, not like a misplaced CM...

we can do it live, maybe in a dedicated thread and noting the ones that the tv shows obviously, as we cant see the off the ball action, its not that hard if we only notice the important ones, like the interception he does on the opening of the video i posted.

As for the games, ussually the ones that focus on our defence, are the ones that our midfield cannot dominate, the Bayern game is likely to be such a game, it will unfortunately put a test to our defending to test!

At first I didn't believe when everyone was calling for your head and saying you are trolling, now I am more than sure you are either too good with your trolls or just too naive. Not even your mother would believe the things you're saying.

Your problem with Bonucci is that he doesn't tackle? And that he's not a typical Italian defender? Are you fucking insane? Do you even believe what you're saying? A defender fucking tackles when he's either too slow or he has positioned himself wrongly, the less a defender tackles the smarter he is, DO YOU EVEN PLAY A FUCKING FOOTBALL?

As for being not being typical Italian defender, that's not even worth a reply.

 

[JuveJay]

He was supposed to be banned from this thread anyway, I'm not sure why he was unbanned.

 

[Azzurri7]

He seriously should be banned from this thread permanently.

 

[Osman]

Do it. Please save our precious braincells from this mental genocide.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Why don't you just go the whole way and ban him permanently? It's quite obvious he gets a sick enjoyment out of his trolling.