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Snobist

DareDevil
Apr 16, 2017
9,467
Bonucci was rather shite post Corona break, before that he was our most constant CB, like it or not. DeLigt became really strong, but it took him a long time to
assimilate,
and whilst that is only normal, it can't be left out of the valuation.
It took De Ligt half season to become better than Bonucci. Bonucci has been here for 7 years and he still shit.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
1,299
You guys seem to forget that at one point during the season Demiral was very close or had already succeeded at taking over de Ligt in pecking order. Matthijs was better than Bonuccj in the closing months of the season when he had settled, but at the start of the season nah. For a large part Bonu actually played like his old self, not the failure we saw in Milan and his first season back and overall I'd say he was our best CB this season.

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Him being an asset might make sense if he was sitting on the bench as a back-up perhaps, but as soon as he becomes the main starter or someone to depend on at crucial times/fixtures(CL especially) he straight away transitions to being a deadweight for us, unworthy of captaining or being one of the first names on the team sheet, even more so after a season where our defending has been atrocious and this guy’s main skills are to play the ball, ass tacke and hope to god he correctly anticipates the trajectory of some through balls, but not at all tackle or defend per se, nevermind his body language or mentality which tends to inspire towards sufficiency rather than the grinta and motivation you would expect from a true captain/leader to transmit.
If the criteria is who will show up in a big CL game against a strong opponent, we have maybe 3-4 players that can be called upon and are not regularly injured, I'd say Ronaldo, Woj are the only non-debatable picks there.
 
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Luca

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2007
11,728
Demiral only had that because Juve had their backs against the wall at that certain point and the time to let De Ligt settle had to be compromised for instant results.

Since De Ligt came back in he’s almost unequivocally been much more stable than Bonucci. They have the potential to make a strong pairing but there’s still some positional problems at times (both can be culpable, but one would expect an experienced player to not have this). Additionally Bonucci still makes silly fouls.

It’s a shame that De Ligt is out for the first part of the season because some continuity would have really been useful as De Ligt plays as the more reliable and experienced of the two. He’s effectively replaced Chiello in being the leader imo, something the Nooch is clearly never going to be.

Personally, this is why I’d say Mati had a better season.
 

Nzoric

Grazie Mirko
Jan 16, 2011
35,436
It’s a shame that De Ligt is out for the first part of the season because some continuity would have really been useful as De Ligt plays as the more reliable and experienced of the two. He’s effectively replaced Chiello in being the leader imo, something the Nooch is clearly never going to be.
So we're resorting to outright lies at this point.
 

Luca

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2007
11,728
So we're resorting to outright lies at this point.
I am guilty of believing Bonucci is not that good of a defensive organiser, take me to the gallows!

He’s the captain of this team yet can’t keep his own shape in a defensive line consistently, never mind organise one.

Worst season in recent memory for goals conceded and you’d expect a 20y/o player coming from a team where they man mark to solve that. Mati still saved the Nooch’s ass on many occasions and only went to prove the point that he lived a charmed life back in the BBC days.

Bonucci didn’t really step up whereas De Ligt did, that’s why I’d say he had the better season.
 

Nzoric

Grazie Mirko
Jan 16, 2011
35,436
I am guilty of believing Bonucci is not that good of a defensive organiser, take me to the gallows!

He’s the captain of this team yet can’t keep his own shape in a defensive line consistently, never mind organise one.

Worst season in recent memory for goals conceded and you’d expect a 20y/o player coming from a team where they man mark to solve that. Mati still saved the Nooch’s ass on many occasions and only went to prove the point that he lived a charmed life back in the BBC days.

Bonucci didn’t really step up whereas De Ligt did, that’s why I’d say he had the better season.
That's the area where Bonucci is best - which is why I'm baffled by this post.

The way Sarri set up the entire team made us out of balance and really prone to counter attacks. Hence the worst season for goals conceded - not because Leo was bad.

It's amazing how much flak this guy gets - he's won 9 scudetti with us and gets credit for none, whlist he gets all the attention when we have a season like this with a coach who made his job impossible. 10/10 logic.
 

piotrr

Senior Member
Sep 13, 2011
30,516
Bonucci was rather shite post Corona break, before that he was our most constant CB, like it or not. DeLigt became really strong, but it took him a long time to assimilate, and whilst that is only normal, it can't be left out of the valuation.
not every defender excels at this


giphy-gif.gif
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
1,299
Demiral only had that because Juve had their backs against the wall at that certain point and the time to let De Ligt settle had to be compromised for instant results.

Since De Ligt came back in he’s almost unequivocally been much more stable than Bonucci. They have the potential to make a strong pairing but there’s still some positional problems at times (both can be culpable, but one would expect an experienced player to not have this). Additionally Bonucci still makes silly fouls.

It’s a shame that De Ligt is out for the first part of the season because some continuity would have really been useful as De Ligt plays as the more reliable and experienced of the two. He’s effectively replaced Chiello in being the leader imo, something the Nooch is clearly never going to be.

Personally, this is why I’d say Mati had a better season.
No doubt about de Ligt being our best CB going forward, but that doesnt mean we have to complain about Bonucci as a huge problem. As much as I dislike him for leaving, forcing his way back with a payrise and sucking for a whole season, he's still a relatively good player when you look at our midfield, fullback and winger quality. Leo this year had a good season compared to last two and he's super reliable when it comes to staying injury free.
 

Alin

FINO ALLA FINE!
Jul 27, 2015
1,876
That's the area where Bonucci is best - which is why I'm baffled by this post.

The way Sarri set up the entire team made us out of balance and really prone to counter attacks. Hence the worst season for goals conceded - not because Leo was bad.

It's amazing how much flak this guy gets - he's won 9 scudetti with us and gets credit for none, whlist he gets all the attention when we have a season like this with a coach who made his job impossible. 10/10 logic.
He only won 8 with us.

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So we're resorting to outright lies at this point.
This would apply to yourself by this logic buddy.

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Imagine asking Juve fans what's their problem with Bonucci lol, maybe Milan rings a bell? If not then the ass tackling might have something to do with it or how about the fact he looks more clumsy then our 20y olds CB's could maybe be among the reasons?

I've personally had enough of him, back-up or leave, i want us to stand a chance in CL and overall not look bent over whenever we go against top strikers.
 
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Luca

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2007
11,728
That's the area where Bonucci is best - which is why I'm baffled by this post.

The way Sarri set up the entire team made us out of balance and really prone to counter attacks. Hence the worst season for goals conceded - not because Leo was bad.

It's amazing how much flak this guy gets - he's won 9 scudetti with us and gets credit for none, whlist he gets all the attention when we have a season like this with a coach who made his job impossible. 10/10 logic.
But he doesn’t, the amount of times he misreads the game in breaking the line to go and make an unnecessary foul really gets to me. At least when Cheillini goes to make a foul it’s within the flow of the game. Bonnuci doesn’t have that reading and it just leads us into danger or loss of flow.

Sarri point is very true though and I also would add to that that our full backs ability didn’t exactly help either.

For the record, I’m not remotely bothered about his ‘Judas’ moment, it’s in the past and I couldn’t give a flying fuck. He was much better when allowed freedom by the other two in a 3 man defence, I’d just have hoped he’d have matured somewhat but he’s 33 and still doesn’t seem to have enough.

Maybe it’s too much to expect, but that’s why I say it would have been better for both if De Ligt didn’t start this season injured. He’s definitely a beta and not alpha.

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No doubt about de Ligt being our best CB going forward, but that doesnt mean we have to complain about Bonucci as a huge problem. As much as I dislike him for leaving, forcing his way back with a payrise and sucking for a whole season, he's still a relatively good player when you look at our midfield, fullback and winger quality. Leo this year had a good season compared to last two and he's super reliable when it comes to staying injury free.
Oh absolutely, the Nooch is far down on the list of ‘problem areas’. As I just said though he’s not commanding or disciplined enough for me. Having said that, he was better this season but still was brainfarting in silly moments. Not what I’d want from a 33y/o captain. But let’s see if he eliminates these with a change of formation or manager.
 
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Alin

FINO ALLA FINE!
Jul 27, 2015
1,876
But he doesn’t, the amount of times he misreads the game in breaking the line to go and make an unnecessary foul really gets to me. At least when Cheillini goes to make a foul it’s within the flow of the game. Bonnuci doesn’t have that reading and it just leads us into danger or loss of flow.

Sarri point is very true though and I also would add to that that our full backs ability didn’t exactly help either.

For the record, I’m not remotely bothered about his ‘Judas’ moment, it’s in the past and I couldn’t give a flying fuck. He was much better when allowed freedom by the other two in a 3 man defence, I’d just have hoped he’d have matured somewhat but he’s 33 and still doesn’t seem to have enough.

Maybe it’s too much to expect, but that’s why I say it would have been better for both if De Ligt didn’t start this season injured. He’s definitely a beta and not alpha.
Exactly, was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt once he returned and what did he do? Was directly responsible for over 50% of the goals conceded in the first part of his first season back, ok we can put last season on Sarri's tactic but how about the rest, it's already obvious by now that sooner or later he is prone to making some crucial errors, there's no other way around it, regardless of the coach or tactics, on his day he is unplayable but those are more and more rare to come across and almost never againt top opposition.

Let's just hope Pirlo and whoever partners him this season will be able to cover and keep damages to a minimum for his and our sake.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
1,299
But he doesn’t, the amount of times he misreads the game in breaking the line to go and make an unnecessary foul really gets to me. At least when Cheillini goes to make a foul it’s within the flow of the game. Bonnuci doesn’t have that reading and it just leads us into danger or loss of flow.

Sarri point is very true though and I also would add to that that our full backs ability didn’t exactly help either.

For the record, I’m not remotely bothered about his ‘Judas’ moment, it’s in the past and I couldn’t give a flying fuck. He was much better when allowed freedom by the other two in a 3 man defence, I’d just have hoped he’d have matured somewhat but he’s 33 and still doesn’t seem to have enough.

Maybe it’s too much to expect, but that’s why I say it would have been better for both if De Ligt didn’t start this season injured. He’s definitely a beta and not alpha.

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Oh absolutely, the Nooch is far down on the list of ‘problem areas’. As I just said though he’s not commanding or disciplined enough for me. Having said that, he was better this season but still was brainfarting in silly moments. Not what I’d want from a 33y/o captain. But let’s see if he eliminates these with a change of formation or manager.
The list of other problem areas is so large, I'd consider Bonucci as part of the core tbh and I dislike him as much as anyone. The fact that this guy has been paid twice the amount in wages compared to Chiellini is scandalous and makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking about it.
 

B3N

Floro Fckin' Flores
May 16, 2010
5,710
He only won 8 with us.

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This would apply to yourself by this logic buddy.

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Imagine asking Juve fans what's their problem with Bonucci lol, maybe Milan rings a bell? If not then the ass tackling might have something to do with it or how about the fact he looks more clumsy then our 20y olds CB's could maybe be among the reasons?

I've personally had enough of him, back-up or leave, i want us to stand a chance in CL and overall not look bent over whenever we go against top strikers.
Back up or leave :lol: he's been out most reliable cb for years now. Those error free 100% success rate defenders only exist in la la land. Let me know when he's not against others highlight reels and is actually judged over performances in a season you'll realize he's still amongst the best.
 

Alin

FINO ALLA FINE!
Jul 27, 2015
1,876
The list of other problem areas is so large, I'd consider Bonucci as part of the core tbh and I dislike him as much as anyone. The fact that this guy has been paid twice the amount in wages compared to Chiellini is scandalous and makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking about it.
Loyalty, sacrifice, passion and first and foremost choosing to put the club first, the embodiment of a Juventus captain and leader of 9x champions defence.

I mean, basically, almost everything that this guy isn't.

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Back up or leave :lol: he's been out most reliable cb for years now. Those error free 100% success rate defenders only exist in la la land. Let me know when he's not against others highlight reels and is actually judged over performances in a season you'll realize he's still amongst the best.
lol? just can't....

Pointing out Bonucci as the most reliable CB is point blank FALSE, maybe the most healthy and available yes, but that's about it. Plenty of mediocre players capable of that aswell. Anyway, as i was saying, if you think we have any chance getting anywhere far in CL with this guy leading the backline then you are in for a rude awakening pal.
 

B3N

Floro Fckin' Flores
May 16, 2010
5,710
The list of other problem areas is so large, I'd consider Bonucci as part of the core tbh and I dislike him as much as anyone. The fact that this guy has been paid twice the amount in wages compared to Chiellini is scandalous and makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking about it.
Chiellinis bro is on juves payroll for god knows doing what plus future roles for him at the clubs pretty much secured. He himself is fine with those numbers.
 

Alin

FINO ALLA FINE!
Jul 27, 2015
1,876
Chiellinis bro is on juves payroll for god knows doing what plus future roles for him at the clubs pretty much secured. He himself is fine with those numbers.
You mean Chiellini is humble and fully aware of his surroundings while Bonucci is a guy that had to be renewed and overpaid to stay, right?
 

B3N

Floro Fckin' Flores
May 16, 2010
5,710
You mean Chiellini is humble and fully aware of his surroundings while Bonucci is a guy that had to be renewed and overpaid to stay, right?
No I meant you don't need to worry about chiello's self interest he's got an agent and obviously treated well by the club.
 

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