Lack of consistency from Lippi might be our undoing (14 Viewers)

[the phoenix]

I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. I would like to see us go back to our formation we mainly used last year, I just feel that we played with more confiedence and damn I finally got to see Maresca play on TV, hope to see more of it.

One question for you guys regarding Stankovic with respect to this thread. Lets just say Stankovic does join Juve in January, how do you think this will impact Lippi? I mean will he suddenly scrap his rotating system and form a core of a midfield that will be a staple of every starting lineup? How will he do?

 

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[Primo]

Stankovic's arrival on January would mean we would not be able to use him in the Champions League because he's already made an appearance in the tournament for Lazio.

But this would certainly help us gain a more consistent line-up in Serie A because Stan will be almost be certain to play most of the time.

Also, it seems as if we dont have much choice as to whether Lippi were to rotate the squad as he still seems to have not found his ideal formula for the current squad. We are winning yes, but convincingly? That is still a big question. But remember last year, at the start of the season we also started slowly in the CL. We qualified from the group stage with 7 points. That was the least number of points gained by any qualifier. But at the end of the tournament, we ended up finishing with the strongest results.

I think we just need to give them time in order to produce results that are convincing. I am not surprised by the unrest of some supporters. But we just need to trust the man in charge which is Lippi in this case. He's brought us 2 scudettos, and has been to most Champions League finals than anyone. Surely he knows by now what the winning formula would be...

 

[Hydde]

He is testing the players right now. And doing some changes to see what they have.

Maybe in 3,4 games more youll start to see the formation that he will use.

 

[Desmond]

rotation is not a bad thing when you are playing with a few players which can take roles and perform them to simlar effect.we did that three years ago with tacch and conte. but now we already have a nucleus the team develops around so this rotation should come to a stop,especially because we do not have any players who function similarly.

look at what we did last season-we had a consistent lineup that changed only when anyone got injured.as a result,we functioned as a unit and looked very solid,with or without possesion.

that compactness cannot be achieved when a team's members are constantly changed,even if there are only two players being changed at a time.it messes up the fluidity the team has built up over time.also,no two players can be put in identical positions with the same game plan simply because they have different strenghts and attributes.

besides,as lac mentioned,a player cannot be be expected to maintain form when he is played only half the games the club plays.

 

[Zizou]

Am I the only one who agrees with Lippi's rotation system? Better this way rather than letting the various talented Maresca, Davids, Di Vaio, etc rotting on the bench and so they would not be able to perform to their best when called.

As Lippi said, he has a team of first team players who all deserve to play.

 

[Signor]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Am I the only one who agrees with Lippi's rotation system? Better this way rather than letting the various talented Maresca, Davids, Di Vaio, etc rotting on the bench and so they would not be able to perform to their best when called.

As Lippi said, he has a team of first team players who all deserve to play.

Not only you, I agree too, and I want him to continue using it.

 

[Ivy]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Am I the only one who agrees with Lippi's rotation system? Better this way rather than letting the various talented Maresca, Davids, Di Vaio, etc rotting on the bench and so they would not be able to perform to their best when called.

As Lippi said, he has a team of first team players who all deserve to play.

i agree with what you've said here. And about consistency, i don't really think that we played very consistently last season.

 

[denco]

Does Lippi really rotate and please who does believe him when he says he has a team of first teamers because quite frankly thats a blatant lie

Ltes face facts here if all things been equal and there was no problem with Davids, his first team would have been mainly

Buffon, Thuram, Leggrotalie, Montero, Zambrotta, Tacchinardi, Davids, Nedved Dp and Trez
Where he would not have been sure would have been either playing Miccolli, Cammo or Appiah on the right hand side

No injuries , then the likes of Maresca, Dv would be kicking their heels on the bench almost throughout while another obvious Lippi fave , Ferrara, would be waiting until or if Leggro gets injured or loses form

Noone on here or not any post I have read is critical of Lippi, its not what this thread is about, its probably ppl would like to see either a settled team or more rotations and Lippi is somewhere in the middle as he does try to use a settled side but he does try and rotate in the earlier part of the season but come January when they are all fit then it would be mostly the same eleven until we get a big game then he goes all loco on us

We cannot play consistent quality football because we do not have players who can hold onto the ball or pass the ball correctly, the ones who can do it are Camo, Miccolli, Dp and Maresca but you would hardly see them in the same lineup

 

[Primo]

when paranoia said that there are no players who function similarly, im sorry but let me stress out the situation between davids and appiah. most probabaly the reason why davids got pushed out was because he and appiah almost had identical roles. and it was appiah which lippi chose. and i also think that it is because they are identical that is why lippi can afford to rest appiah in some games, and let davids play, and vice-versa.

take also into consideration the role that miccolli plays. he plays similar to del piero. remeber, he was even touted as an understudy to ale. maresca also takes up a similarity to nedved who plays on the left side of midfield, the only difference is that neddy is more attacking minded and more creative.

another one to add to the defensive midfield functionality would be tacchi. he is a great player, but he just needs to find his form and consistency. on par level, the 3 of them (davids, tacchi, and appiah) function similarly.

legro fucntions similar to ferrara as well. so as the 3 of them can rotate in the center of defense (montero, ferrara & legro). if we need another one, we've got Iuliano.

These are exactly my reasons why I am all go for Lippi's squad rotation. Specially now as we are just enetering the season. We may not be able to do this come the latter half of the season. So its a good idea that we're letting as much players play, to get as much quality out of them when the crucial parts of the season come.

So Zizou and Aragorn, I'm with you on this. I've always been pro-rotation once in a while.

 

[Primo]

I understand how people are so critical to the squad's rotation. But isnt it good that we are doing this at this part of the season rather than at the end?

 

[denco]

Please can you all tell me the players that are been rotated as I fail to see it
The only matches Tacchi has missed is due to injury, Nedved has played in all matches and in what universe is he more creative than Maresca?
Miccolli had appendicitis, Dp is injured, Leggrotalie got injured as well
Davids is obviously out of favour because of contract dispute

Dv is only playing because Dp is injured so the rotation is more or less forced on Lippi

 

[Zizou]

But he would have still rotated injuries or no injuries cos as Lippi says, he trusts all of his players.

All players are being rotated except for Nedved, but he's a machine and doesn't get tired as easily as others. Eventually he will be given a rest (just like in some 'easy' matches of last year).

All the players have featured this season, except for Pessotto, Fresi, Conte, Zalayeta and Olivera who have/had injuries. So if we have a squad of around 24 players, and in 7 games played we have played all the players that were available, then I guess we have done a very good rotation.

Look at Inter for example, they have more players than us and yet they have done less rotation!!!

 

[Gandalf]

IMHO, i think the rotation at this time of the season is ok.. to know that players can play more than one role, so when we get some injuries or suspensions, we can replace the injured ones with others who are already tested and can perform better than if they were new to their new roles..

but I have to admit this.. As we get close to the end of the season.. "in SOME big matches" lippi starts to rotate the team with no need to do so.. !! I have no explanation for that..

I think this is related to his mentality.. he is so afraid of "Failure"..
maybe I'm wrong.. BUT, I think "you have to dare to lose.. to win"..!!

 

[Layce Erayce]

as has already been mentioned, rotation has come hand in hand with poor performance this season. I hope people kinda connect the dots here. The fact is we have too many players vying for a spot on the first team. If this problem didnt exist we would have found a good formation to stick to and problems go capisce, with there being a definite pool of reserves

Now we have Micco, Maresca, Appiah, and Legrottiagle- all of whom are rather talented individuals and deserve games. Besides that we have Camoranesi who doesnt get enough playing time for his talent imho.

But Micco has even threatened to leave if he doesnt get enough playing time. When maresca was here last- 2 seasons ago I think, he showed signs of wanting more playing time. Im not sure about camo but the issue very well could come up in the future.


This is the major problem we face. And there really is no way to fix it unless we compromise

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
But he would have still rotated injuries or no injuries cos as Lippi says, he trusts all of his players.

All players are being rotated except for Nedved, but he's a machine and doesn't get tired as easily as others. Eventually he will be given a rest (just like in some 'easy' matches of last year).

All the players have featured this season, except for Pessotto, Fresi, Conte, Zalayeta and Olivera who have/had injuries. So if we have a squad of around 24 players, and in 7 games played we have played all the players that were available, then I guess we have done a very good rotation.

Look at Inter for example, they have more players than us and yet they have done less rotation!!!

What league game has Ferrara played this season? Tacchinardi has only missed games in the league because of injuries and Zambrotta has played every minute of every game, save for Reggina away , I think

Trez has only missed a game i think and that was becos of injury, Dp , the same
Nothing wrong with rotation at this stage of the season if its done in moderation but I do not for one moment believe Lippi when he says that everyone is equal in the squad cos thats bull

In his eyes Dv is inferior to Dp and Trez, Maresca is inferior to Tacchinardi, Nedved is untouchable so where is the equality there?

Inter have played with Cruz, Vieri, Martins and Kallon all starting in various games this season

In fact Inter rotate more than we do so there should be no argument there at all and they do not have a fisrt team which is part of their problem imo

 

[Zizou]

Well first of all Ferrara played against Reggina so he has played first team matches to be able to rest Legro (and has played very well).

Inter has rotated all of their strikers because they cannot score a goal when Vieri is not on the pitch! In our case, whoever plays, nearly always gives his best and we still achieve the results! How can you say Inter rotate more than us? They only rotate the attack, and that's cos of the lack of goals. Their midfield and defense is always the same cos they cannot afford to play with Cannavaro, Cordoba, Zanetti (both), Emre's reserves. They don't have our depth.

In Lippi's eyes, DV and Maresca are not inferior to their team mates, they are just different style players. He plays them when he has a certain idea in his mind to counter his opponents.

Zambrotta and Nedved are not untouchables, but they have more stamina than the rest of the team so they can take more games than others. Soon their time will come to be rested but until then we are fine.

Seriously how can we criticise a guy that brought us so many trophies with his tactics? His rotations have always worked and the results say so.

 

[denco]

Again with the criticism nonsense, why is it that when someone has a different opinion, its either because you hate the person or you are being critical

Lippi , yes is the best manager Juve have probably ever had but not everything he does is right

In big matches , he has screwed up and thats not being crtitical, its a fact, he has screwed up big time in every Cl final we have been to and has been lucky to win once in 1996 when he took off Ravanelli when he did not really have to but we won on pens so he got away with it

He screwed up against Dortmund, Real Madrid and Milan with his selections so he has not been always spot on but every manager no matter how successful has screwed up

Emre is not a reserve in Inter, Almeyda has played so has Killy, Van der Meyde, Luciano and Lamouchi whether it has worked is not the point, the discussion is whether they have been rotated and they have which goes to show that it does not always work

In theer defence they have Helveg, Brochet, Adani, Cordoba, Matarazzi, and Canavaro who have all played this season along with pasquale so how can you say its just their strikers that are being rotated

Okay I may be a little hazy on this one but when has Dv being played ahead of a fit Dp Or Trez and Lippi

As for Maresca we are all complaining that he should not be rotated but actually be in the first team

 

[Hydde]

Its sad...but Nedved i untouchable in the first eleven for lipp, and DP, and trez too. I mean they can be underperforming,,but always will have a hand against on form DV and Micco. Im with Lippi in playing always nedved, but sometimes he needs to give a bif role to maresca to see what he really have, and if he is reliable.

This season we can rotate our players, and when we were without benches last season,, everyone was whinning about that. So whats the point?.

IM very happy that lippi is using our benches (although it is just for the injuries).

 

[Zizou]

Denco there's nothing wrong with criticizing and I'm not telling you not to, but I feel Lippi gets criticised either for not rotating and for rotating. It's like a lose-lose situation for him.

What were Lippi's selection mistakes against Dormund and Real?

I did not say Emre is a reserve for Inter; on the contrary, I said that he does not have a reserve good enough to substitute him.

Come on we rotate more than Inter. Let's start with the defense...

Inter's defense: Helveg, Brochet, Adani, Cordoba, Matarazzi, Zanetti and Cannavaro

The starters are always Cordoba, Materazzi, Cannavaro and Zanetti. Right now Adani is substituting Materazzi cos of injury, otherwise Materazzi would still be playing. Cannavaro and Cordoba always play. Ditto for Zanetti; and when he''s moved to midfield, Helveg enters the field. Breschet has only played in the last 20 mins of Inter-Milan.

Our Defense: Thuram, Legro, Montero, Zambrotta are the starters. Birindelli, Ferrara, Iuliano and Pessotto are their reserves. They were all substituted during these matches, and no player featured in all matches. If Pessotto was not injured, Zambrotta would have been rested more (Lippi said so before the match against Bologna...he said this week Pessotto will be back).

Midfield: Inter play Zanetti C. and Emre nearly every match; can't remember when Lamouchi played (if he did); Almeyda only featured in a match or two; the wingers were at first Luciano and VdM, then Kily came and he took Luciano's place.

Our midfielders have all played alot of minutes.

Anyway it's late here and I'm tired so we'll continue this tomorrow, good night

 

[s0ftcore]

I think apart from rotating the players, Lippi has also been changing the formation around too much. For example, when DP was injured last season, he played 4-5-1. Now he seems to have done away with our 4-4-2 to accomodate Appiah, and plays a 4-3-1-2.

I'm not saying this is bad, but since Juve worked well with the normal 4-4-2, why not just leave it at that?