Lack of consistency from Lippi might be our undoing (1 Viewer)

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#1
he hasn't had a consistent lineup this season,and this has given rise to many questions.

is di vaio or miccoli the replacement for del piero?who is higher in the pecking order,appiah or davids?and is camo going to be a mainstay of the team?

a championship team needs consistency from it's manager in choosing his team and lippi has not been consistent in choosing juve's lineup this season,which i believe could cause us to fail in europe,even in the serie a.

the same thing's going on at chelsea where claudio "the tinkerman" ranieri has been experimenting since the beginning of the season.sure,they've gotten off to a flying start,but once the season is in full flow,the true importance of a team's ability to gel and work effectively as a unit will surface and they will probably suffer.same case for us.
 

Maher

Juventuz addict
Dec 16, 2002
13,521
#2
This is due to the rotation between players and regarding CL please dont be so optimistic this season even if we reached the second stage and reach the final we will do like we did in the last 3 finals:down:
 
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Desmond

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#4
++ [ originally posted by m_elayyan ] ++
This is due to the rotation between players and regarding CL please dont be so optimistic this season even if we reached the second stage and reach the final we will do like we did in the last 3 finals:down:
now you're being pessimistic;)

we gotta keep our heads up more than ever even after we lost three finals consecutively.and even if we do lose/get kicked out before then,the prize money's good enough for us to put some emphasis on it.
 

Zizou

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2003
3,967
#6
You can't possibly compare Chelsea's rotation with ours. Ranieri changes 3/4 of his tema every match, Lippi at most changes 2 or 3 players.

The squad system is fine as it is, so whoever plays already knows what he must do and can insert himself easily in the system. This helps in not really feeling the loss of a player as much.

Lippi is doing fine and the results keep proving this. It's good that he makes all 24 players feel like first team regulars so they can all feel responsible for the team. We wouldn't want a Rivaldo case in our squad, now would we?
 

Maher

Juventuz addict
Dec 16, 2002
13,521
#7
Winning the CL require you play well not like in Bolognia match AND THAT HAPPENED ALSO IN galatasaray match:(
 
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Desmond

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#8
++ [ originally posted by Aragorn ] ++
Rotating the squad isn't a bad thing, is it ?? :undecide:
rotation may not be a bad thing,but the players involved here are vastly different ones.look at camo,appiah and davids-three players with very different roles are being rotated in the team,and neddy's not been as impressive this season.

our system last year(without rotation) served us fine and we should stick with it.
 

Hasuni Boi

Junior Member
Sep 19, 2003
66
#9
U know what, ur all a bunch of guys who don't know anything about football.....One day ur saying "ohh that damn Lippi isn't rotating, he's using the same players and getting them tired", and now this.......If u have watched Juve in previous seasons u should now that we have a slow starting team, but when it starts rolling it almost can't be stopped......And one other thing, When Lippi had his first spell in Juve he's trademark was his ablity to rotate the team in best possible way, so what is wrong with u guys, this is the best thing for us to be involved in all competitions, we have the depth, so why not use it?!?!?
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,089
#10
I think the changing of the lineup is due to the awesome depth we have in our squad this season, Lippi's still trying out new things. Sure, you could say that he had plenty of time in pre-season to do that, but I think there's still so many combinations of players to try out and see how they work together.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#12
First off @ Zizou we dont have a player of the calibre of Rivaldo kicking his heels in the reserves and the one we do have is actually making noises and almost everyone knows or thinks he is going in January for a fee or for free next season

We are not playing good football because we have no go to guy in the midfield aka playmaker to make things flow for us and we are winning matches on individual brilliance whether it be in October or next year

We are fortunate in that we have Dp who would carry the team early on , get injured then Nedved would step up and carry the team as well, with Buffon saving our bacon at the back

This is not to say that the rest are not good in their own way

Yes you have to rotate especially when you are negotiating Cl and league especially early on in the season but you have to have a core , spine if you like

My biggest problem and I am repeating myself here is that Maresca ought to be used more

Tacchinardi should be dropped if he is not on top of his game as he is in no way indispensable

There surely has to be an alternative to Trez but if you insist on playing him play him with a strike partner as he is not adept at playing by himself

Players I feel can play most matches comfortably without too much rest are Zambrotta, Nedved, Appiah and Davids

In saying that the midfield needs a bit of tinkering and fine-tuning as we have not got the best balance yet I feel
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,657
#13
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
First off @ Zizou we dont have a player of the calibre of Rivaldo kicking his heels in the reserves and the one we do have is actually making noises and almost everyone knows or thinks he is going in January for a fee or for free next season

We are not playing good football because we have no go to guy in the midfield aka playmaker to make things flow for us and we are winning matches on individual brilliance whether it be in October or next year

We are fortunate in that we have Dp who would carry the team early on , get injured then Nedved would step up and carry the team as well, with Buffon saving our bacon at the back

This is not to say that the rest are not good in their own way

Yes you have to rotate especially when you are negotiating Cl and league especially early on in the season but you have to have a core , spine if you like

My biggest problem and I am repeating myself here is that Maresca ought to be used more

Tacchinardi should be dropped if he is not on top of his game as he is in no way indispensable

There surely has to be an alternative to Trez but if you insist on playing him play him with a strike partner as he is not adept at playing by himself

Players I feel can play most matches comfortably without too much rest are Zambrotta, Nedved, Appiah and Davids

In saying that the midfield needs a bit of tinkering and fine-tuning as we have not got the best balance yet I feel
The same here, is not that bad as paranoia said....and no way we are in the same position with chelsea,,,as zizou said.

Now we can rotate,,,and you are not satisfied, when last year we could only dream about changing so many players and have variety.

OK, we re not performing as we want...but we can do even better. About last year formation,,it gave us resulsts in CL, but were too difficult to achieve, and in some times was even luck. This time,,we we find the formula,, we awill have a better team for sure.

NOw lippi must realize which players can perform in certain positions.
 

Primo

Juventus FC - Philippines
Dec 20, 2002
1,436
#14
Well, I think the lack of a really consistent line-up is a good thing for us IMHO. This is the perfect evidence that our squad is deep enough and is consistent enough to be able to achieve results, and at the same time, give playing time to most of its players. It also shows the level of each and every member of the squad's quality.

How many teams can afford to lose its star players and replace them with subs of good quality and still get results that matter?

We have not lost, despite the disappointing/par level our performances (due to high expectations) are. Dont expect to have 5-0 score lines when our squad isnt a premiership kinds who goes out on all attack and doesnt give much dedication to defense as much as we do. For us, a 2-0 or 3-0 scoreline is as good as 5-0.

In our squad, there are around more than 5 players who have scored already. (Based on assumption) If we stick with certain players each and every game, we risk the chance of losing quality from our subs. And when the time comes when we need them (take for example when we lost nedved in the finals) we do not get as much qulaity because of their lack of playing time.

I am not saying anything new, you all know this. But as one person stated:

"When did squad rotation become a bad thing?"

I think its a good idea what Lippi is doing. We may have been conceding goals ever game, but at least we are outscoring our opponents by an odd goal. And I beieve this is brought about by the increased overall quality of the squad.

Now is the time when we can truly say that we are not dependent on Del Piero, Nedved, Trezeguet or Buffon. It is a good thing you know...
 

Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
#15
denco makes good points, most of them rather obvious, others clearly stating what was on the tip of many a tongue, or what people found difficult to explain. i hope people read your post before making comments.

something that should be pointed out is the drastic changing of roles in the team many players have had.

davids doesnt have a guarunteed role any more. nedved is PROBABLY on the slide right now form and performance-wise but i might be wrong. his place is in jeopardy. tacchi as denco mentioned- once a mainstay of the team- is possible bench material. and last but certainly not least trezegol- who doesnt quite seem to satisfy us with his game.

there are various reasons for obvious problem at hand- our form and lack of consistency in formation and first team. the influx of players with no real, set-in-stone role for the team is the cause of this problem.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,657
#16
I dont know, but im a loyal believer of squad rotation. Because when we need those subs to perform and saveour asses, they will not do a good job. And why we dont have to rotate? having just a brand new players in the bench, and very promisings.
 

Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
#17
primo in a utopia squad rotation would be like elixir but really in this case it has its downfalls. somehow i doubt all our players will remain on form if we keep rotating them. then there is the issue of how well they play in games.

i think squad rotation is a bad idea, and it will be proven at the end of this season with chelsea. there is bound to be certain players to be unhappy with it- especially those with the short end of the stick- ie the players with fewer games under their belts.

as i stated earlier this is due to the influx of players with no fixed role in the team. was appiah supposed to be first team or bench?
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,657
#18
But Chelsea is in a different situaion...

And how we will know what we have if we dont rotate the players??. Always using the same guys although they underperform,,,when we have guys like maresca and miccoli in the bench that want to show what they have got??. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with it. This will push all the players to compete for his place and will bring best overall performances.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#20
Thank you lac for your comments, the biggest problem with squad rotation in the case of Chelsea is that the manager would feel obliged to play, players that could be considered champions even if he has been winning with certain players

Say Mutu and Hasselbaink hit a rich vein of partnership,, how does he not play Crespo who cost a bomb? In the midfield how do u keep out Makele, Petit, Duff, Cole, Gronkjaer and the other 1million midfielders he has ?
The answer is you cannot, there are ceratin players that would accept being on the bench at a big club and bask in the glory of winning championships whilst there are others who would not accept it especially if they feel they are not inferior to those that are playing

Look at Inter and the problems they have, the problem is that they doi not have a first team and it is IMPOSSIBLE to win anything without a first team

You encounter problems when you rotate for the heck of it , look at the most succesful teams and you can say which is their first XI, but look that teams who struggle for consistency even with big squads , its those you cannot say who is the first 11 or name 8 core members in the first team

yes you can rotate but you cannot start dropping 6 players at a time to replace with 6 others of equal quality or not

Its never the biggest squad of players that wins, its the best team of 11 - 14 players at the most , anything more than that to be rotated constatntly would surely lead to failure imo
 

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