La Liga 2019/20 (2 Viewers)

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Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,812
I'm sorry but that's not fair at all. He makes up for not playing defense by having every attack go through him. It's not like he's sitting in the box waiting for a tap in. He starts his plays from the middle of the field and most of the time he's at the end of the play assisting or scoring with explosive sprints with a lot of physical contact from defenders. That's super hard on your stamina at any age, especially 33.
That's literally impossible, unless you're getting carried out by your team m8s to the attacking zone, by not attacking too fast so Messi might sneak to the final third by walking. That's the reason he's in the end of the play quite often, just because Barca wants to keep their play slow in order to have Messi in play in the final third. If they played like Liverpool, Messi would be picking up his nose in the middle, when players are going past him in both directions, it's just how it is whether you want to accept it or not.

He might have the best left foot in the game, his brains might weight 15 kilos and so on, but it's a physical sport, where you need a certain physical condition in order to play and Messi clearly isn't capable of doing it anymore, considering how fast and physical game is nowdays. All the top teams in the world are either great at counter attacking, great at pressing because that's how you keep up the tempo. Barcelona do not have players for anything, they're bunch of fossils walking around the field and hoping their 80% posession wins the games in La Liga against Getafes etc, as it has done because they still have way more quality in there but if they're facing team like Liverpool, City, Bayern in the CL, they can't have 80% posession and they're required to run way more and since no real counter attacking ability or anything, they basically become useless. Even the last few classicos against RM they've looked like bunch of amateurs compared to RM. That whole Barcelona team is built by playing with quite low tempo, that's why Messi is able to jog around like he does and it's a cold hard fact. Let's say couple years ago when those players were still somewhat on their early 30s, not 33-34s they were just fine, but that couple years in there with no real additions to their team and couple La Ligas when RM was putting all their eggs to the same basket(CL) just made them believe we still got this, even the reality is that they don't and it's crystal clear nowdays.
 

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Arcticdaly

Senior Member
Oct 3, 2018
4,075
Messi has been amazing for them since lockdown ended, the rest of them have been garbage. Our boy Arthur has been Gareth Bale'd so I never saw him play.
No he hasn't, he hasn't scored a goal from open in like 11 games or something and most he's goals and assists this our year are against the bottom 4 rubbish of la liga. Messi is amazing player but is having a poor season and he's biggest stat padded year ever had he also has no stamina and looks dead on he feet walking around all game with litte effort.
 

james95

Senior Member
Sep 2, 2018
1,024
68 goals in 37 games.
He was working with what he had at his disposal. If anything, this proves Zidane's credentials even more. At the beginning of the season he realised that this Madrid side didn't have the ammunition upfront to play the usual free flowing, ultra attacking style they were so used to playing in previous years. Instead, he prioritised defensive solidity and had the team play as a unit which resulted in them having the best defensive record in the league - highlighting his pragmatism and that he can adapt his tactics to best suit the personnel of his team not being rigid like a certain Sarri.
 
May 23, 2013
4,312
A disappointed Lionel Messi branded Barcelona "inconsistent" and "weak" after Thursday's loss to Osasuna allowed Real Madrid to clinch their first La Liga title since 2017.

Barca's surprise 2-1 defeat at home to Osasuna, coupled with Madrid's 2-1 win against Villarreal, moved Zinedine Zidane's side seven points clear at the top of the table with just one game to go.

Messi said Madrid deserve credit for winning all 10 games since La Liga's resumption in June to prevent Barca from making it three titles in a row, but he criticised his side's performances and called for reflection across the whole club.

"We didn't expect or want it to end in this way, but it's a reflection of our season," Messi told Movistar after Osasuna ended Barca's 42-game unbeaten run at Camp Nou in the league.

"[We've been] an inconsistent, weak team that has been beaten in intensity and enthusiasm. It has been easy to score goals against us.

"Madrid did what they had to do. They haven't lost a game since the restart, which deserves credit, but we have helped them by dropping points we should not have dropped.

"We must be self-critical, starting with the players, but across the whole club. Madrid won all their games but we are Barcelona and we're obliged to win every game. We have to look at ourselves, not the opposition, and the performances in recent games have left a lot to be desired."

Barca could still avoid a first trophy-less season since 2007-08 with success in the Champions League when Europe's premier competition resumes next month.

However, Messi says huge changes will be needed before they host Napoli in the second leg of their last-16 tie on Aug. 8 following a 1-1 draw in Italy in February.

"I have said before that if we continued playing as we were it would be difficult to win the Champions League and now it's clear it wasn't even enough to win La Liga," the Barca captain added.

"We have to change a lot because if we don't, we will lose against Napoli as well. We need a little time to clear our heads and then to think about the Champions League, which starts from zero."



It's funny how he says they've been lacking intensity and enthuasism. He is the captain, he should lead the way, lead by example but no, joggs 5km per match and then gives comments like these. Also saying "if we don't change anything, we will lose against Napoli", which again just proves how terrible are his leadership qualities. Not a real captain would say that, ever.
If Messi is a horrible captain for those comments then how on earth do we describe Cristiano?

“I never thought we (Portugal) would be world champions. We have to be humble and recognize our limitations. There are things we cannot do, like running faster or having more quality."

https://www.livemint.com/Specials/D...not-good-enough-to-win-World-Cup-Ronaldo.html

Edit: Before any butthurts comment. Im not saying Cristiano is a bad captain. He is a great leader (better than Messi) and has proven that time after time. However, to call Messi a terrible leader for comments that aren't even bad is just ridiculous and stems from anti-Messi bias.

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Aside from that this is prob Messi's worst season yet. The injury at the beginning didn't do him any favors, but it's on him for not getting back in line since. Barca horrible transfer policy and coach appointments hasn't done him any favors either. Barca have not had a top tier coach since Guardiola. How can Everton have Ancelotti in charge while Barcelona (a top 5 club in history) have some average joe from Real Betis? Crazy shit
 
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Siamak

╭∩╮( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╭∩╮
Aug 13, 2013
15,004
I think we must see Zidane coaching another team rather than Real Madrid then we can talk
That is the same case for Pep.

We missed out on Kloop, he is the real amazing manager
zidane already left R.madrid in May 2018 and we had chance to hire him.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
59,239
Pegi is irrational about Messi, not first time he says that BS. Messi scores and assists ALOT. He is right in what he is saying, they not been good enough, and its because club has been badly mismanaged in every level.
 

rainhard

Senior Member
May 5, 2004
3,917
Some people still doubt Zidane? Nothings going to be enough jesus
I don't doubt him,he win so much with RM , but I just never see him with other team than Real Madrid
When you talk Real Madrid, he have CR7 in his prime

I just prefer Klopp rather than Zidane and Pep, because he build the team and he prove that with how he build Dortmund
Then In Liverpool, they address key signing briliantly

GK > Allison
CD > VVD
Winger > Mane and Salah
Robertson and TAA looks like world class player under him and he great in creating that good atmosphere within team

Just wonder, if AS Roma get Kloop while they can. Allison and Salah is already there
Maybe our scudetto run already ended in 2018
 

james95

Senior Member
Sep 2, 2018
1,024
If Messi is a horrible captain for those comments then how on earth do we describe Cristiano?

“I never thought we (Portugal) would be world champions. We have to be humble and recognize our limitations. There are things we cannot do, like running faster or having more quality."

https://www.livemint.com/Specials/D...not-good-enough-to-win-World-Cup-Ronaldo.html

Edit: Before any butthurts comment. Im not saying Cristiano is a bad captain. He is a great leader (better than Messi) and has proven that time after time. However, to call Messi a terrible leader for comments that aren't even bad is just ridiculous and stems from anti-Messi bias.

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Aside from that this is prob Messi's worst season yet. The injury at the beginning didn't do him any favors, but it's on him for not getting back in line since. Barca horrible transfer policy and coach appointments hasn't done him any favors either. Barca have not had a top tier coach since Guardiola. How can Everton have Ancelotti in charge while Barcelona (a top 5 club in history) have some average joe from Real Betis? Crazy shit
The difference is.. Messi, as Argentina captain retired not once but twice. What kind of leadership example is that?

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When you talk Real Madrid, he have CR7 in his prime
He didn't have CR7 this season though? In fact, the marquee signing he made (Hazard) was pretty much out all year.
 

Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,812
Pegi is irrational about Messi, not first time he says that BS. Messi scores and assists ALOT. He is right in what he is saying, they not been good enough, and its because club has been badly mismanaged in every level.
It's not BS by any means and there's definitely alot truth in that. You're typical, "can't see behind the stats and not watching any games" guy. That whole circus at Barca, let me break it down for you:

1. Previous signings:

Look at the players, or more specificially attacking players they sold so Messi could play his role as a false 9. They had played like Eto'o who was forced out, Zlatan was there for a year, Henry was there couple seasons and had to play on the left more than as a ST, then those Villa's and Sanchez's before they got Suarez who's like a perfect fit for Messi. So basically they had like 5 different guys on a tryout before they found their guy.

2. Current signings:

Then you take a look at the recent signings after they sold Neymar. Desperately trying to get someone in return in order to keep Messi happy. They signed Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann with zero clue if they have use for them, but just prob had the pressure to sign somebody so Messi wouldn't lose his mind. It's not necessarily Messi's fault, it's understandable that he demands certain things, but pleasing a guy who's like 31-33yr instead of doing what RM did and told Ronaldo he's free to go, was the right thing. Barca's board is too scared to do such a thing, and Messi demanding(or Messi being there demands, whatever) these things for his short term success instead of looking at the big picture and being part of the complete rebuild isn't something Messi is willing to do, so they need to invest around a 33yr old for next couple years, which is so god damn stupid management in a long run because they need certain type of players, instead of just thinking we're going to play football like this, we need these type of players but no, Messi wants free role and their signings are always making his game better or playing through him. Like, they haven't really invested on the defense at all, it's always attacking players but still not replacing Suarez, because he's Messi's bf.

3. The coach roulette:

Just checked they've had 9 coaches since Guardiola left in 2012 summer and that's ridicilous. The funniest in here is that Gerardo Martino was coach for Barcelona and for Argentina. Coincidence? I don't think so. He actually coached Newell Old Boys which is Messi's boyhood club, then from there he went straight to Barcelona and from Barcelona to Argentina NT coach and people seriously say, Messi has no say who's coach in there, or which players he prefers to sign. It ain't just the rumours it being like that, there's actually alot of things that supports it being more true, than not. There's been speculation about Xavi coming back to home, but im sure he won't come before that circus is over in there and that includes Messi and the old boys being gone, so he can actually focus on coaching.

4. Board:

How their management is supposed to do well, when they're so scared of Messi leaving while Messi giving all these demands or players/coaches he would prefer to have? They can't even make their own decisions, Messi is currently bigger than the club and they're shitting on their pants alongside of losing it and it's not just Barcelona who is scared, it's La Liga as well.


Final conclusion:



Once all this stops, there's going to be an anarchy in Barcelona and that's their club for +5 years and you all know it's going to happen. Pique cares more about making Catalonia independent or becoming the next President of Barcelona. Suarez and Messi will just agree eachothers for whatever. Bartomeu and co. can't walk on the streets of Barcelona for a while. Their fans will split up, Messi is retired nobody gives a fuck about Futbol Club Barcelona for a while. SO, i don't care how many goals or assists he has per season from now on, he is responsible as much as anybody, just by being who he is, just by not willing to see the big picture and wants to sacrifice whole club for his last years of hurray in order to have some individual success. If it wasn't like i said, he would have accepted a limited role, different role instead of that free role still at 33 and he would have accepted club attempting even some sort of rebuild while he's still playing. That would have been caring about the club but he clearly does not, that's why he sticks around with his demands till the death. How how many different athletes you've seen sticking around and sucking the playing time from the potential future stars? It has happened on so many sports, so many times and it never ended nothing but a total split between the team and player. You can take a look at RM for example, Ronaldo asked more money but RM said not going to happen, which was obviously smart in their part even they might have lost some money, but it allowed them to rebuild better which Barca can't obviously do as long as Messi is in there. Now you're saying "oh well but he still assists every game and scores 40 goals a season", but that's not the point, the point is that whole team needs to be surrounded around him and the more you prolong it, the bigger will be the causes in the future. He isn't 25, he isn't the future anymore and as long as you care about more about his stats which are obviously carried big time due his limited movement on the pitch, the longer it takes to recover from this whole mess. He is still best player in their club, but nowhere near a guy you should build around. He shouldn't even be playing 90mins a match if he can't run more than 5km per game, he's max 30-60min a game guy nowdays, yet you build around him and trying to make him being able to be part of game by playing so god damn slow.
 

Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,812
Talk about being fixated over something, chill a bit. By the way @Osman is one of the more level headed guys here and certainly doesn't fit your ridiculous description of him.
Doesn't matter, it's time for his fanboyism to end or atleast somewhat open his eyes, that there might be little bit blame on Messi as well. He clearly accepted Barca has not been good, ehm, or those other 10 players and management been terrible as well, but never put any blame on Messi. Brought out the stats, but forgot that beyond the stats Messi has been nothing but a burden.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,227
It's not BS by any means and there's definitely alot truth in that. You're typical, "can't see behind the stats and not watching any games" guy. That whole circus at Barca, let me break it down for you:

1. Previous signings:

Look at the players, or more specificially attacking players they sold so Messi could play his role as a false 9. They had played like Eto'o who was forced out, Zlatan was there for a year, Henry was there couple seasons and had to play on the left more than as a ST, then those Villa's and Sanchez's before they got Suarez who's like a perfect fit for Messi. So basically they had like 5 different guys on a tryout before they found their guy.

2. Current signings:

Then you take a look at the recent signings after they sold Neymar. Desperately trying to get someone in return in order to keep Messi happy. They signed Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann with zero clue if they have use for them, but just prob had the pressure to sign somebody so Messi wouldn't lose his mind. It's not necessarily Messi's fault, it's understandable that he demands certain things, but pleasing a guy who's like 31-33yr instead of doing what RM did and told Ronaldo he's free to go, was the right thing. Barca's board is too scared to do such a thing, and Messi demanding(or Messi being there demands, whatever) these things for his short term success instead of looking at the big picture and being part of the complete rebuild isn't something Messi is willing to do, so they need to invest around a 33yr old for next couple years, which is so god damn stupid management in a long run because they need certain type of players, instead of just thinking we're going to play football like this, we need these type of players but no, Messi wants free role and their signings are always making his game better or playing through him. Like, they haven't really invested on the defense at all, it's always attacking players but still not replacing Suarez, because he's Messi's bf.

3. The coach roulette:

Just checked they've had 9 coaches since Guardiola left in 2012 summer and that's ridicilous. The funniest in here is that Gerardo Martino was coach for Barcelona and for Argentina. Coincidence? I don't think so. He actually coached Newell Old Boys which is Messi's boyhood club, then from there he went straight to Barcelona and from Barcelona to Argentina NT coach and people seriously say, Messi has no say who's coach in there, or which players he prefers to sign. It ain't just the rumours it being like that, there's actually alot of things that supports it being more true, than not. There's been speculation about Xavi coming back to home, but im sure he won't come before that circus is over in there and that includes Messi and the old boys being gone, so he can actually focus on coaching.

4. Board:

How their management is supposed to do well, when they're so scared of Messi leaving while Messi giving all these demands or players/coaches he would prefer to have? They can't even make their own decisions, Messi is currently bigger than the club and they're shitting on their pants alongside of losing it and it's not just Barcelona who is scared, it's La Liga as well.


Final conclusion:



Once all this stops, there's going to be an anarchy in Barcelona and that's their club for +5 years and you all know it's going to happen. Pique cares more about making Catalonia independent or becoming the next President of Barcelona. Suarez and Messi will just agree eachothers for whatever. Bartomeu and co. can't walk on the streets of Barcelona for a while. Their fans will split up, Messi is retired nobody gives a fuck about Futbol Club Barcelona for a while. SO, i don't care how many goals or assists he has per season from now on, he is responsible as much as anybody, just by being who he is, just by not willing to see the big picture and wants to sacrifice whole club for his last years of hurray in order to have some individual success. If it wasn't like i said, he would have accepted a limited role, different role instead of that free role still at 33 and he would have accepted club attempting even some sort of rebuild while he's still playing. That would have been caring about the club but he clearly does not, that's why he sticks around with his demands till the death. How how many different athletes you've seen sticking around and sucking the playing time from the potential future stars? It has happened on so many sports, so many times and it never ended nothing but a total split between the team and player. You can take a look at RM for example, Ronaldo asked more money but RM said not going to happen, which was obviously smart in their part even they might have lost some money, but it allowed them to rebuild better which Barca can't obviously do as long as Messi is in there. Now you're saying "oh well but he still assists every game and scores 40 goals a season", but that's not the point, the point is that whole team needs to be surrounded around him and the more you prolong it, the bigger will be the causes in the future. He isn't 25, he isn't the future anymore and as long as you care about more about his stats which are obviously carried big time due his limited movement on the pitch, the longer it takes to recover from this whole mess. He is still best player in their club, but nowhere near a guy you should build around. He shouldn't even be playing 90mins a match if he can't run more than 5km per game, he's max 30-60min a game guy nowdays, yet you build around him and trying to make him being able to be part of game by playing so god damn slow.
3oz3v7.jpg
 

Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,812
He has what, 27 goals and 23 assists? And he was involved in like 54% of all Barca goals.

But i feel you. I don't like him either. Such a burden.
Damn, we got another guy with the stats so the question goes, why don't you include ran km's for stats, for example? Oh ya, but we forgot it would make him look bad, but adding goals and assist actually makes him look good.

There we have it.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
62,568
Damn, we got another guy with the stats so the question goes, why don't you include ran km's for stats, for example? Oh ya, but we forgot it would make him look bad, but adding goals and assist actually makes him look good.

There we have it.
Calma, Arnold. I didn't include them because it doesn't matter.

If you score and assist 50+ goals you hardly are "nothing but a burden". That's pure nonsense. If anything, he keeps that sinking Barca ship afloat. But whatever.

Maybe try a 1000 letter post to win me over.
 
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