Juventus vs. Newcastle on 7-29-07 (11 Viewers)

[tonykart]

a lot of you are jumping the gun way to soon, sure I would have liked them to win but does this really matter? No we are in England to learn, to try out formations and players. That is what these games are for. Now we can discover what we need. Don't forget we played well we only didn't score.
I heard we are this Ivanovic guy from Lok. Moskou. Isn't he a right back?

To learn? C'mon. Ranieri should know exactly what players he wants to start by now. Our team isn't exactly stacked enough to pick and choose. There is a clear gap between our 1st team and our second team, especially up front. Our team is totally setup for 442, so I have no idea what kind of tactics he is fiddling with. I know that this was just a friendly, but I think we saw a ton of Ranieri's personality come out. He is not a big team manager and never will be. I am definately afraid that we will not qualify for CL, despite having the talent to do it.

 

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[Marc]

I did get a bit worked up about this match. I really thought that it would be tough, but we would tie or win. We are (or at least in the past) a much better and more prestigious club than Newcastle. I though we were under-preppared and poorly setup. Friendly's are used for experimentation, but Ranieri clearly wanted to win and boost morale as he should have, but he didn't put our players in a good enough position to compete.

I will not put too much stock in the Hamburg game, but I do expect a much more improved side against Sunderland. Ranieri should have a much better idea of who his starting lineup will consist of.

As for the 433... with our players, it just wont work. We have a tremendous attacking foursome of Nedved, Camo, DP, and Trez and a 433 does not allow these players to play in their natural positions. On top of that, our backups fit into the 442 mold. The 4411 or 442 works very well and fits our roster. It is a no brainer. We just need a more combative CM.

Milan is able to play the way they play because they have Gattuso and Pirlo who are the two best CM's in the world... IMO. On top of that, they have Maldini, Nesta, and Oddo with Kaladze and Favalli as bench options. A good team starts with defense and then works forward.

I could care less how pretty we play. I just want to win. I actually prefer defensive football. It wins. The things that are holding us back in that game, and are clear signs of problems in the future, are the same problems we had going into the transfer period. CM and CB. Andrade and Almiron are improvements, and Tiago is a good guy to have available, but we need a good CB to partner Andrade. Chiellini is an option, but I fear that he is leaving.

I agree. Milan has a perfect midfield, especially their destroyers like Gattuso and Ambrosini. If Nocerino turns out to be as good as Gattuso, then we are on a horse. We have our distributor in Almiron and we have quality on the wings, something that Milan on the contrary does not have. In attacking department we are also very well covered. Unfortunately Milan has much better quality and organisation in defense which is the key in winning games.

It is very painful and it is becoming depressing to see the club of a calibre like Juventus lose to mediocre English teams like Newcastle but this is reality. Juventus always have problems with English sides away due to inferior physical strength and pace. However, when Juventus hit the top of their form, I am sure Newcastle wouldn´t run out as easy winners.

I do not care much for the game against Hamburg but I hope to see a good Juve against newly promoted Sunderland. But this is again a game on a English pitch, so I expect to see difficulties again. I was hoping to see Juventus broke their bad charm against English opponents when they have applied Ranieri as their manager, whio has the experience of playing against English sides. However, he did have different team roster back then. We will see how good really Ranieri is in the next several matches.

P.S. Juventus always have problems in the pre-season period. That is not a thing to be extremely worried about. What is important is to secure a Champions League spot. There will be no glory this season, maybe next....

 

[tonykart]

I agree , the 4 4 2 does fit our players better but the fact is its just too predictable . Juve's main problem in attack in the past years was their lack of creativity and originality . Our passing was so obvious . Why can't we have an attacking-winning team . Its not if you're defensive you win , if you're offensive you lose . i think with a new signing in defense and playing nocerino in the DM could give us more balance .

I would love for juve to play attacking free-flowing football , i envied milan all those years because of their style of play while they also managed to get great results out of it .

Juve have a perfect chance for experimenting new formations in the coming games , i would be dissapointed if ranierie resorts to the usual 4 4 2 .
That's what friendlies are for afterall , testing out new formations and players .
I think at this point juve should really focus at making this work . Its been a long time since we have has creative midfielders that can distribute the ball quickly and properly .

I don't disagree, but, like I mentioned earlier, we have Nedved, Camo, DP and Trez and as long as we have these guys we will always fit perfectly with 442. I am not against the 433, but the formation doesn't dictate the play style. 442 can be a creative formation too. It depends on he philosophy of the team.

Regardless, we will never be able to play "free" flowing football unless we can defend and win balls. Nocerino is our best hope. The guy is a beast and is the ultimate destroyer. He is young and needs to tone it down a bit, but sometime when you tell players like him to do that, it takes them away from what they are good at. Gattuso makes a lot of silly penalties, but you have to weigh his good vs. his bad. I don't want to compare Nocerino to Gattuso, but they are similar, just on different levels right now. Zanetti would work for now as well, but he isn't as physically gifted or as influencial. Almiron needs to be able to move up with out having to worry about creating a huge gap. If Nocerino is in, he can focus more on attack.

We definately need a LB and shift Chiellini to CB. Or we need a CB and keep Chiellini outside. No doubt about it.

Anyways, I don't think that the formation leads to free play, but philosophy does. I am a fan of defensive football. But that doesn't mean teams like Milan aren't defensive. They play very defensive, but hold posession when they win the ball back. We could be like that with our players, but somewhere in between where we used to be with Capello and where Milan is with Anceloti.

 

[francesco]

Milan holds possession so well in the midfield because they have Pirlo, without him i think they would be lost. He is the best midfielder in his position IMO.

 

[tonykart]

Milan holds possession so well in the midfield because they have Pirlo, without him i think they would be lost. He is the best midfielder in his position IMO.

I can't argue that, I can only say that Gattuso make Pirlo better as well. That is why Milan is so good. They are a complete TEAM. We need to have an identity. If Ranieri wants to play cute football that is fine, but he needs to find out if that is the right thing for us to do this year. We NEED CL this year. I don't think it is an option.

 

[tonykart]

Why haven't we tried to go hard after Zambrotta? That was a huge mistake to sell him and we are paying for it. Management should have swallowed their ego and dished out the dough for him.

 

[David01]

I agree. Milan has a perfect midfield, especially their destroyers like Gattuso and Ambrosini. If Nocerino turns out to be as good as Gattuso, then we are on a horse. We have our distributor in Almiron and we have quality on the wings, something that Milan on the contrary does not have. In attacking department we are also very well covered. Unfortunately Milan has much better quality and organisation in defense which is the key in winning games.

It is very painful and it is becoming depressing to see the club of a calibre like Juventus lose to mediocre English teams like Newcastle but this is reality. Juventus always have problems with English sides away due to inferior physical strength and pace. However, when Juventus hit the top of their form, I am sure Newcastle wouldn´t run out as easy winners.

I do not care much for the game against Hamburg but I hope to see a good Juve against newly promoted Sunderland. But this is again a game on a English pitch, so I expect to see difficulties again. I was hoping to see Juventus broke their bad charm against English opponents when they have applied Ranieri as their manager, whio has the experience of playing against English sides. However, he did have different team roster back then. We will see how good really Ranieri is in the next several matches.

P.S. Juventus always have problems in the pre-season period. That is not a thing to be extremely worried about. What is important is to secure a Champions League spot. There will be no glory this season, maybe next....

I'm not saying they should learn how to play football! Ran tried Trez and Iaquinta in attack. How can he know if that works if he doesn't try it in a friendly. We know they are similar types of players. these games are there to try these things out and yet everybody over here is already dissin our team and coach. You think Rome was built in one day?
Let's try 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 or whatever, now is the time to do this.
Remember, this is no fm-game we are playing here. Some of you seem to forget how hard it is to make this all to blend together.

 

[rounder]

I don't disagree, but, like I mentioned earlier, we have Nedved, Camo, DP and Trez and as long as we have these guys we will always fit perfectly with 442. I am not against the 433, but the formation doesn't dictate the play style. 442 can be a creative formation too. It depends on he philosophy of the team.

Regardless, we will never be able to play "free" flowing football unless we can defend and win balls. Nocerino is our best hope. The guy is a beast and is the ultimate destroyer. He is young and needs to tone it down a bit, but sometime when you tell players like him to do that, it takes them away from what they are good at. Gattuso makes a lot of silly penalties, but you have to weigh his good vs. his bad. I don't want to compare Nocerino to Gattuso, but they are similar, just on different levels right now. Zanetti would work for now as well, but he isn't as physically gifted or as influencial. Almiron needs to be able to move up with out having to worry about creating a huge gap. If Nocerino is in, he can focus more on attack.

We definately need a LB and shift Chiellini to CB. Or we need a CB and keep Chiellini outside. No doubt about it.

Anyways, I don't think that the formation leads to free play, but philosophy does. I am a fan of defensive football. But that doesn't mean teams like Milan aren't defensive. They play very defensive, but hold posession when they win the ball back. We could be like that with our players, but somewhere in between where we used to be with Capello and where Milan is with Anceloti.

Yes, right now , playing attacking football is just too risky . If juve don't sign a quality CB , or even a LB so chiellini can play as a CB , a 4 3 3 would be out of question .

If we do ever play a 4 3 3 formation , Dp , camo , nedved , trez , wouldnt exactly be left out .

It would look something like this .

Grygera - Andrade - Chiellini - ?
--------- nocerino - Almiron
-------------- nedved -----------------

camo/marchioni -- trez/iaquinta ---- Dp/palla

camo, dp , trez , and nedved .nedved would go back to his "free role " camo would be used more in attack , trez and Dp would play in their same positions

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Sam Allardyce accusing Gianluigi Buffon of assault


Allardyce likened Buffon's first-half headlong charge from goal and subsequent collision with the teenage substitute Andy Carroll to that of the notorious Harald Schumacher challenge on Patrick Battiston in the 1982 World Cup. "Andy's very lucky he's not in hospital," said Allardyce of the clash that happened shortly after Carroll had doubled the lead with virtually his first touch on 36 minutes. "It was like that with Schumacher all those years ago, more like common assault." So much so the Newcastle manager felt compelled to charge down from the stands to remonstrate with the referee Mark Clattenburg.

Carroll no doubt expected to see stars of a different kind facing Juventus but the the young Geordie showed great resolve to rise groggily to his feet and continue. Claudio Ranieri, the Juventus manager, saw the 39th-minute incident differently, strongly defending his goalkeeper. He said: "He's a gentleman 100%, it was an accident as he was going for the ball."

Guardian

oh f*ck off fat sam it was the least he deserved, next time we break his jaw, and we'll finish owens career off

 

[francesco]

I can't argue that, I can only say that Gattuso make Pirlo better as well. That is why Milan is so good. They are a complete TEAM. We need to have an identity. If Ranieri wants to play cute football that is fine, but he needs to find out if that is the right thing for us to do this year. We NEED CL this year. I don't think it is an option.

I dont think Ranieri is stupid, he knows we need results, not pretty football. If he doesnt get into the top 4, he can kiss his job goodbye!

 

[Badass J Elkann]

The referee is a Newcastle fan is he? Shame he was VERY VERY understanding when Buffon ATTACKED our lad Carroll. There is no excuses for it, it was disgusting, you can moan about the penalty all you like - but you should have been down to ten men. Without a doubt.

yeah next time we break his ugly face! you're lucky montero aint around anymore. This is how football is played in italy, and this is proof that our league is more physical than yours, cant handle it, then go to the gym and build some strength up

 

[tonykart]

Yes, right now , playing attacking football is just too risky . If juve don't sign a quality CB , or even a LB so chiellini can play as a CB , a 4 3 3 would be out of question .

If we do ever play a 4 3 3 formation , Dp , camo , nedved , trez , wouldnt exactly be left out .

It would look something like this .

Grygera - Andrade - Chiellini - ?
--------- nocerino - Almiron
-------------- nedved -----------------

camo/marchioni -- trez/iaquinta ---- Dp/palla

camo, dp , trez , and nedved .nedved would go back to his "free role " camo would be used more in attack , trez and Dp would play in their same positions

Eh... I think you are asking too much of Grygera in regards to getting him to move forward. Also, Almiron likes to cheat upfield and isn't big on getting back in a hurry. I also think Nedved is great on the side, because he controlls the entire side line for 90 minutes. I am sure he will be good everywhere but locking down 1 side of the field really helps. I still don't see it working. If Sali was a better defender we could play him at RB, but Grygera is a very good RB, so it is kind of a wash. 433 is fine, but i just don't see it working.

BUFFON
GRYGERA - ANDRADE - CHIELLINI - MOLINARO
NOCERINO
ALMIRON - NEDVED
CAMO - TREZ - DP​

This maybe but still is unneccesarily heavy in attack and very weak on the flanks.

 

[tonykart]

Nedved and Camo are very good in the 442 wing role. They do a tremendous job there. They contribute offensively and defensively. The flanks are a huge strength in our squad. Even with Salihamidzic. He fits that role perfectly too. If Almiron had Zanetti or Nocerino next to him, he would be able to help DP in the middle. I don't think we need any more attack. We are fine. It is the defense I am worried about. A 433 surely won't help the defense.

 

[Carlo D]

oh f*ck off fat sam

Fouling &/or unfair play has never been Gigi's style. Allardyce however was guilty of gamesmanship!

I dont think Ranieri is stupid, he knows we need results, not pretty football. If he doesnt get into the top 4, he can kiss his job goodbye!

That's a foregone conclusion, amico, & his job is not being made any easier by the fact that he's probably not going to get the quality defender, the 1 last summer signing to work with that all the talk just a few short weeks ago was about!

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Fouling &/or unfair play has never been Gigi's style. Allardyce however was guilty of gamesmanship!

hes probably still bitter that we never sold him zalayeta when he was managing bolton

 

[tonykart]

hes probably still bitter that we never sold him zalayeta when he was managing bolton

What are we doing with Zalayeta? Is he just collecting dust? If he isn't good enough to play, get rid of him and pick up someone else.

 

[Carlo D]

hes probably still bitter that we never sold him zalayeta when he was managing bolton

Andy, you did say "managing" Bolton?

 

[Gill_juve]

Why haven't we tried to go hard after Zambrotta? That was a huge mistake to sell him and we are paying for it. Management should have swallowed their ego and dished out the dough for him.

we cant keep a player who ademantly wants to leave.

 

[tonykart]

we cant keep a player who ademantly wants to leave.

Can't we get him back now?

 

[rounder]

Can't we get him back now?

I doubt it , zambrotta hasn't gotten over the calciopoli and still feels betrayed by the club . I don't blame him really .