If he comes here, I hope you are right, but i'd be lying if I didn't say that I have my doubts. We are so desperate right now that I will take him though.
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Juventus vs. Newcastle on 7-29-07 (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Vinman
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exactly , playing two center forwards (trez/iaquinta) at the same time just does'nt make sense , iaquinta seemed lost yesterday and trezeguet was invisible . I don't think iaquinta should be anywhere near the right flank , he just has no vision and is very clumsy with the ball . He may be a good replacement for trezeguet though .
No offense mate but you were deeply upset by this defeat and you described what you think is a big problem with Juventus after the 1st "friendly" match in this season.
I am sure that this defeat has made many Juventus fans frightened and afraid that this season may go wrong and are already looking who to blame. Let us see how things will go after next 2-3 matches to draw real conclusions.
I must say that I am not a fan of 4-3-3. I don´t think this offensive formation could work for Juventus. They never played like that. I think Ranieri has to deploy more compact and balanced formation.
I would like to see Juventus playing more attractive football but not at the expense of final result. Let´s say, I am amazed how Milan plays and wins. Their displays are always convincing.
I am sure that this defeat has made many Juventus fans frightened and afraid that this season may go wrong and are already looking who to blame. Let us see how things will go after next 2-3 matches to draw real conclusions.
I must say that I am not a fan of 4-3-3. I don´t think this offensive formation could work for Juventus. They never played like that. I think Ranieri has to deploy more compact and balanced formation.
I would like to see Juventus playing more attractive football but not at the expense of final result. Let´s say, I am amazed how Milan plays and wins. Their displays are always convincing.
I did get a bit worked up about this match. I really thought that it would be tough, but we would tie or win. We are (or at least in the past) a much better and more prestigious club than Newcastle. I though we were under-preppared and poorly setup. Friendly's are used for experimentation, but Ranieri clearly wanted to win and boost morale as he should have, but he didn't put our players in a good enough position to compete.
I will not put too much stock in the Hamburg game, but I do expect a much more improved side against Sunderland. Ranieri should have a much better idea of who his starting lineup will consist of.
As for the 433... with our players, it just wont work. We have a tremendous attacking foursome of Nedved, Camo, DP, and Trez and a 433 does not allow these players to play in their natural positions. On top of that, our backups fit into the 442 mold. The 4411 or 442 works very well and fits our roster. It is a no brainer. We just need a more combative CM.
Milan is able to play the way they play because they have Gattuso and Pirlo who are the two best CM's in the world... IMO. On top of that, they have Maldini, Nesta, and Oddo with Kaladze and Favalli as bench options. A good team starts with defense and then works forward.
I could care less how pretty we play. I just want to win. I actually prefer defensive football. It wins. The things that are holding us back in that game, and are clear signs of problems in the future, are the same problems we had going into the transfer period. CM and CB. Andrade and Almiron are improvements, and Tiago is a good guy to have available, but we need a good CB to partner Andrade. Chiellini is an option, but I fear that he is leaving.
I will not put too much stock in the Hamburg game, but I do expect a much more improved side against Sunderland. Ranieri should have a much better idea of who his starting lineup will consist of.
As for the 433... with our players, it just wont work. We have a tremendous attacking foursome of Nedved, Camo, DP, and Trez and a 433 does not allow these players to play in their natural positions. On top of that, our backups fit into the 442 mold. The 4411 or 442 works very well and fits our roster. It is a no brainer. We just need a more combative CM.
Milan is able to play the way they play because they have Gattuso and Pirlo who are the two best CM's in the world... IMO. On top of that, they have Maldini, Nesta, and Oddo with Kaladze and Favalli as bench options. A good team starts with defense and then works forward.
I could care less how pretty we play. I just want to win. I actually prefer defensive football. It wins. The things that are holding us back in that game, and are clear signs of problems in the future, are the same problems we had going into the transfer period. CM and CB. Andrade and Almiron are improvements, and Tiago is a good guy to have available, but we need a good CB to partner Andrade. Chiellini is an option, but I fear that he is leaving.
I don't use that as an excuse. We lost, they were better. I still think the Italian League is superior to the EPL and La Liga. The games are much more interesting and the day to day is tougher because bad teams will play really good tactics just to beat you. In the EPL everyone just bangs the ball forward and pretends they are pirates. "ARG! To the net matey!".
Fact Newcastle are never likely to win the Premiership
Fact Newcastle cannot win serieA
A lot of people here were actually trying to convince me that our present team can win the scudetto or indeed challenge for it.
I raise these topics because in a match, friendly or otherwise, a superior team ought to dominate an inferior team, not necessarily win the game but at least dominate for the first hour or so and then the fitness levels start to show. It does not matter if you lose 2-0 or even 5-0 but you have to show that you are far superior to the opposition for it to bode well for the future. Some people are talking like most of the squad has not played football in 3 months. It was just a 5-6 week break so they ought to at least show some superority over Newcastle. I love entertaining football, everyone knows that, but entertainment with an end product is what i like. I hate when you pass the ball just for the heck of it, or just keep the ball without doing anything with it. I was not sure what we were trying to do at times. we looked pretty but lacked punch. Its either you win ugly or win by entertainment. Being stuck in the middle is no good to anyone cos you start to lose to no hopers and beat champions and no way would you win anything tangible that way. Just ask all Ranieri's teams or in Liverpool under Roy Evans.
Allardyce has stated that the team he put out yesterday has not a hope in hell to survive in Epl and they more than matched us for technique.
I don't know how Tiago has gone from being an average player to being a very good one, but I hope you are right. From what I saw yesterday, he looked the same average player in a team of stars like he was at Chelsea. Almiron at least showed or try to show that he is above Newcastle. I thought Trez actually linked the paly well and showed good movement early on but of cos fitness would show in the end. Fitness only plays a part at the ned of the game not the whole 90 minutes. The result did not matter a jot. Its the fact that against a Newcastle side shorn of their best players, we looked just above average, fitness or not , that is worrying. A big worry is the marking from set plays, noone was commanding in the penalty area and I am including Andrade in this category, as they misss headers, players running through etc. Chiellini seems like a good candidate for centre back but like I said he needs a mentor. I am still not sure why Balzeretti was let go
An addendum:- ESPN showed charlton vs chelsea yesterday night, Ranieri was manager at the time and they had Makele, lampard, Cole, hassellbaink Gudjohnsen, Terry, Desailly, Bridge in their side and they got thumped 4-2. The funny thing was in the 85 minute with chelsea losing 4-2, Ranieri took off Cole (Joe) and brought in Gallas into the midfield. It was just a reminder of all the blunders that he is capable of making as a manager.
Fact Newcastle cannot win serieA
A lot of people here were actually trying to convince me that our present team can win the scudetto or indeed challenge for it.
I raise these topics because in a match, friendly or otherwise, a superior team ought to dominate an inferior team, not necessarily win the game but at least dominate for the first hour or so and then the fitness levels start to show. It does not matter if you lose 2-0 or even 5-0 but you have to show that you are far superior to the opposition for it to bode well for the future. Some people are talking like most of the squad has not played football in 3 months. It was just a 5-6 week break so they ought to at least show some superority over Newcastle. I love entertaining football, everyone knows that, but entertainment with an end product is what i like. I hate when you pass the ball just for the heck of it, or just keep the ball without doing anything with it. I was not sure what we were trying to do at times. we looked pretty but lacked punch. Its either you win ugly or win by entertainment. Being stuck in the middle is no good to anyone cos you start to lose to no hopers and beat champions and no way would you win anything tangible that way. Just ask all Ranieri's teams or in Liverpool under Roy Evans.
Allardyce has stated that the team he put out yesterday has not a hope in hell to survive in Epl and they more than matched us for technique.
I don't know how Tiago has gone from being an average player to being a very good one, but I hope you are right. From what I saw yesterday, he looked the same average player in a team of stars like he was at Chelsea. Almiron at least showed or try to show that he is above Newcastle. I thought Trez actually linked the paly well and showed good movement early on but of cos fitness would show in the end. Fitness only plays a part at the ned of the game not the whole 90 minutes. The result did not matter a jot. Its the fact that against a Newcastle side shorn of their best players, we looked just above average, fitness or not , that is worrying. A big worry is the marking from set plays, noone was commanding in the penalty area and I am including Andrade in this category, as they misss headers, players running through etc. Chiellini seems like a good candidate for centre back but like I said he needs a mentor. I am still not sure why Balzeretti was let go
An addendum:- ESPN showed charlton vs chelsea yesterday night, Ranieri was manager at the time and they had Makele, lampard, Cole, hassellbaink Gudjohnsen, Terry, Desailly, Bridge in their side and they got thumped 4-2. The funny thing was in the 85 minute with chelsea losing 4-2, Ranieri took off Cole (Joe) and brought in Gallas into the midfield. It was just a reminder of all the blunders that he is capable of making as a manager.
Carroll went for the ball, and got the ball.
Buffon made NO ATTEMPT for the ball, he went straight for the player when he realised he wasn't going to get it, he slammed into his face and could have easily injured him.
A disgusting challenge, which is not welcome on a football pitch. There is absolutely no way you can argue Buffon's case, it was terrible.
Buffon made NO ATTEMPT for the ball, he went straight for the player when he realised he wasn't going to get it, he slammed into his face and could have easily injured him.
A disgusting challenge, which is not welcome on a football pitch. There is absolutely no way you can argue Buffon's case, it was terrible.
Excellent post! Amen.
I would like to add on top of your point about win first and then win pretty. We can't afford to play pretty football right now, because our defense is not good enough. We need to play TEAM defense first. I would like to see Zanetti or Nocerino partner Almiron in the midfield and Chiellini at CB next to Andrade. Chiellini is a best, but needs to be a bit more savvy. With Andrade next to him I think it is a good offset. Regardless, our defense will not improve with 1 big signing. We need to play defense as an entire team first. Pleasing the fans is pointless if it leads to losses.
I would like to add on top of your point about win first and then win pretty. We can't afford to play pretty football right now, because our defense is not good enough. We need to play TEAM defense first. I would like to see Zanetti or Nocerino partner Almiron in the midfield and Chiellini at CB next to Andrade. Chiellini is a best, but needs to be a bit more savvy. With Andrade next to him I think it is a good offset. Regardless, our defense will not improve with 1 big signing. We need to play defense as an entire team first. Pleasing the fans is pointless if it leads to losses.
Excellent post! Amen.
Great point about Ranieri BTW. I have never been a fan of his and was dissappointed when they chose him. I think Juventus wanted him because he gives good interviews and we need the PR right now. I just hope we don't lose our old identity now that he is here. I loved the way we played under Lippi and even Capello and DD. It worked.
Great point about Ranieri BTW. I have never been a fan of his and was dissappointed when they chose him. I think Juventus wanted him because he gives good interviews and we need the PR right now. I just hope we don't lose our old identity now that he is here. I loved the way we played under Lippi and even Capello and DD. It worked.
a lot of you are jumping the gun way to soon, sure I would have liked them to win but does this really matter? No we are in England to learn, to try out formations and players. That is what these games are for. Now we can discover what we need. Don't forget we played well we only didn't score.
I heard we are this Ivanovic guy from Lok. Moskou. Isn't he a right back?
I heard we are this Ivanovic guy from Lok. Moskou. Isn't he a right back?
I agree , the 4 4 2 does fit our players better but the fact is its just too predictable . Juve's main problem in attack in the past years was their lack of creativity and originality . Our passing was so obvious . Why can't we have an attacking-winning team . Its not if you're defensive you win , if you're offensive you lose . i think with a new signing in defense and playing nocerino in the DM could give us more balance .
I would love for juve to play attacking free-flowing football , i envied milan all those years because of their style of play while they also managed to get great results out of it .
Juve have a perfect chance for experimenting new formations in the coming games , i would be dissapointed if ranierie resorts to the usual 4 4 2 .
That's what friendlies are for afterall , testing out new formations and players .
I think at this point juve should really focus at making this work . Its been a long time since we have has creative midfielders that can distribute the ball quickly and properly .
I would love for juve to play attacking free-flowing football , i envied milan all those years because of their style of play while they also managed to get great results out of it .
Juve have a perfect chance for experimenting new formations in the coming games , i would be dissapointed if ranierie resorts to the usual 4 4 2 .
That's what friendlies are for afterall , testing out new formations and players .
I think at this point juve should really focus at making this work . Its been a long time since we have has creative midfielders that can distribute the ball quickly and properly .