Juve - Man Utd preview (3 Viewers)

[mate]

Juventus is leading in serie A and still in the run in CL, also if last match is to forget the season can't be considered bad.
The strange thing is that in serie A we are doing very good, also if we had some bad games loosing or drowing also with small teams we look better recently and Inter is going down in the same time, while in CL we had more so&so matchs than good matchs, the only impressive one I remind is the one vs Basel... But if you look in the past the situation have been often similar... 4 example the match vs Kiev was the first win outside home in Europe 4 such a long time!
Anycase I don't think this defeat vs Man Utd have to take all this negatives tought... it can happen! Everybody has those days wheare everything just goes in the wrong way!

About Zambrotta... i'm agree, there was no foult, he just slippered! Shame!!!

About Roma... yes Totti is too important 4 them, also if they have others good players (Emerson, Cafu, ecc...) they depend on Totti, but if you look at the few matches we played without Nedved I have to say that we wuould have similar problems (of course I don't think we will drop in between the team fighting 4 not going in serie B like Roma but....) in case he won't be avaliable 4 so long like Totti... who can replace Pavel???

 

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[Tom]

Denco, you seem like an educated version of me!

 

[A_LAcki]

++ [ originally posted by mate ] ++
Juventus is leading in serie A and still in the run in CL, also if last match is to forget the season can't be considered bad.
The strange thing is that in serie A we are doing very good, also if we had some bad games loosing or drowing also with small teams we look better recently and Inter is going down in the same time, while in CL we had more so&so matchs than good matchs, the only impressive one I remind is the one vs Basel... But if you look in the past the situation have been often similar... 4 example the match vs Kiev was the first win outside home in Europe 4 such a long time!
Anycase I don't think this defeat vs Man Utd have to take all this negatives tought... it can happen! Everybody has those days wheare everything just goes in the wrong way!

About Zambrotta... i'm agree, there was no foult, he just slippered! Shame!!!

About Roma... yes Totti is too important 4 them, also if they have others good players (Emerson, Cafu, ecc...) they depend on Totti, but if you look at the few matches we played without Nedved I have to say that we wuould have similar problems (of course I don't think we will drop in between the team fighting 4 not going in serie B like Roma but....) in case he won't be avaliable 4 so long like Totti... who can replace Pavel???

Great post! You said, what I wanted to say! We had a bad day, and without these three mistakes, and a bit more luck, we could have won! Anyways, we are not out yet!

Who can replace Nedved??? At the moment nobody, but next year Miccoli!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[denco]

Who can replace Nedved, when you say nobody then I am guessing you mean in our current squad then you are right but his importance is because he plays a free role which makes it difficult for opponennts to mark him, if you put someone on him , he does not have the skills or whereitall to do anything about it

Lippi made Nedved important as the way he has structured the team, he was excellent in Lazio but certainly not indispensible

I am not sure how anyone can say Nedved played well in that game, he only came alive when we were 3-0 down and to actually suggets we played better than Man united then its no point in talking to that person, Ferrara is very slow and yes he can cope in SerieA where the pace is not so gr8 against the smaller clubs at least but against bigger teams with pace he will struggle so its suicidal pairing him with a very disappointing Montero

We are leading serieA plz that is just padiripapapa as some of our points have been amassed thru the aid of referees if we are being honest with ourselves

And you know a good side when they come against theri equals where usually the referee does not too much influence the game

I do not mind losing as long as you play well but to play like that, no that should not be acceptable

Some say we played well against Basel well i tried to watch that game but it was too foggy so please explain how you guys saw how well we played

A lacki, you have blamed our defence, our bad luck as to you we created loads of chances , hitting the post and Camo's flick and also the fact that most of the players were just recovering from flu

You got any more excuses apart from the fact that on the day we were not good enough and that extra bit of class just eveades us

Talking of Inter do u not wonder how Barcelona can be struggling but still put 3 goals which could have been more past them

I do not even mind if we are Totti dependent as he has class but to be reliant on Nedved plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, he is a high class worker and performer but that bit of class is lacking in his game when it comes to unlocking defences

 

[Jun-hide]

Denco,
I agree with some points and disagree with some in your last post, as always.

I agree with you on the point that the team lacks the geniune quality passer, a la registra, in the middle of park. This prohibits us from taking control of the game.
We also lack a fantasy player, as you have correctly mentioned. This means that any injury to Alex is magnified.
I also agree that our back line lacks pace, and this was shown by the run from Ryan Giggs.

The fact that I disagree, is that, as Mate mentions, the team have bad days and good days. The team we saw against Man U was not real Juve. We don't play attractive football, however, noramally we do the basic well. In the game, our did not keep to the basics, which are pass well, and simply, pressurize the opponents, finish the chances, and don't make silly errors. The team obviously has its deficiencies nevertheless, we have many world class performerrs such as Thuram, Alex, Trezeguet, Buffon, Nedved, Davids, Camo. There is enough talent in the team to win the CL, no doubt. It is more of getting the team chemistry and mechanics right, coupled with right frame of mind and heart from the players. This defeats hurts both you and me and rest of people in this forum, nontheless, I don't think it is that damaging to the cause of the team. A win against Depor should more or less ensure our passage from the group and from then on, it is more of a peaking at the right time, as Real and Man U have shown that you can win against opponents that have previously beaten you handsomely in the group stage.
Also, I have to disagree that Ferrara is not a good defender anymore. I cannot agree with you no more on the fact that Ferrara was terrible against Man U in Torino. However, such performance more due to the fact, that Ciro had a heavy schedule for his age then his lack of quality. Ciro had outstanding games against Parma, and Man U in Old Trafford. His positioning was excellent and did not give anything away to power players like Nisterlooy and wonderkid Adriano. His experience and presence will be and is very valuable to the team.

I agree with you on the fact that Man U deserved to win. They controlled the game from when they scored that all important first goal. However, did they deserve to win 3-0?. I think the score-line was flattering to put it midly. Maybe 1-0 or 2-0 but not 3-0.
The matter of fact was we had horibly game, and Man U took their chances and deservedly won the game. On the other hand, I don't think it will happen again, (then again, I have been getting things wrong of late), and we are more than able to beat Man U. I don't believe we are suddenly became a bad team because of this result. In retrospect, I think this result will do us more good than damage, because the aspects we have to learn and improve was clearly shown. Lippi has to find ways to cover the lack of pace in the defence, probably giving more protection in the midfield (which will make the game a bit more boring, you can always complain) and improve on passing in general on the middle of park. Also the players should feel motivated and humiliated by this result. I am hoping this result would put fire into the likes of Trezegeut, and Montero.
England may have won 5-1 agaisnt Germany in Munchen but it was Germany who had the last laugh as they went to the final of the world cup. And what was their magic ingredient? Keep the back line discipline, work hard for each other, and take chances while they come. It was not about creativity, flicks, step overs, but simple basics. Isn't it amazing what simple basics can do?

 

[denco]

Mine is not a knee jerk reaction and its what I have seen of Juve over the last 3 seasons

Ferrara is not a bad player , he is quite good , past his best as you and I both know, saying he was brilliant against Parma is a mute point as my granny would have played well against Parma on that day as they were so poor it was unreal

Everyone is assuming that we will beat Depor, never mind that we have never beaten thme before and taking it for granted that we will go to Basle and win , knowing how pathetic our away record in Europe is. Just beware of Tristan and Makaay

I just do not understand this forum as they will tell you Davids is the best midfileder in the world, Nedved is the best attacking m/f, Trez is the best striker , Zambrotta best right winger in Italy, Italian league is so superior to other leagues etc etc etc and we still struggle in matches, iof cos its very wrong as these players are world class but nothing like the best in their positions

Btw no way is Camo world class , he is very good but world class give me a break , why can't we put things in their real perspective, beating the likes of Como and is no great achievement, its just a victory

Until we perform admirably in Cl, we are not a great team and all the fancy writings on here would not alter that fact

 

[Tom]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I just do not understand this forum as they will tell you Davids is the best midfileder in the world, Nedved is the best attacking m/f, Trez is the best striker , Zambrotta best right winger in Italy, Italian league is so superior to other leagues etc etc etc and we still struggle in matches, iof cos its very wrong as these players are world class but nothing like the best in their positions

Btw no way is Camo world class , he is very good but world class give me a break , why can't we put things in their real perspective, beating the likes of Como and is no great achievement, its just a victory

You're first part I totally agree with. The most recent exampl;e is the Parma game, where people, having learnt that we won, automatically assumed we played brilliantly, and any criticisms I gave were simply met with responses like 'did you even watch the game' and 'we won in Parma, we must have played well' and other bs of that type. Maybe I should just ignore it all and let them wallow in their delight that we've won..

second part, about camo. I think he is a start performer in one of the best sides in Europe, therefore he can't be far off world class. IF he can consistently perform to his best for a few seasons, then world class he shall be (IMO)

 

[Jun-hide]

I admit last three season wasn't pretty.
Three years ago, Roma totally outplayed us all season, and last year, Inter deserved to have won the championship, and this year we were pathetic in December. It was just painful to watch how the team played against Brescia. We were just as bad against Man U that day. So I do admit, that we aren't the best side in the world. However, I think it is more to do with lack of team color and chemistry than talent. Man U, have great players but, in my opinion, exception of Seba Veron and maybe Giggs in his day, none of these players are, out of this world. The fact is Nisterlooy is about on the same level as Trez, while Beckam, Ferdinand, Keane, is probably on par with Davids, Nedved, Thuram. The fact is, and, more painful to me, is that we don't have a team color and attitude that is a hallmark great teams. We don't attack that well and our defence is good but not that good. This is more to do with the setup of the team than individuals that constitute the team, in my opinion anyway. I think Lippi tried to get the balance just right as a result, we may have fairly balanced side but there isn't particular area which we can boast about. As a result, I think our deficiencies are magnified to every centimetre. If our defence is strong enough then our lack of creativity won't be so cruelly exposed. If our midfield is strong enough, then our lack of pace in defence or lack of creativity won't be so damaging. Man U, in my opinion, don't have 11 players who are of world class quality. Veron, certainly, Roy keane, Beckam, Paul Scholes, Nisterlooy, Giggs are all great players but i would hestitate to call them absolute top tier players. The difference was Man U had the quality midfield and we didn't, and that in my opinion was the deciding factor with our lack of workrate and tactical setup, which decided the game.

The solution would be for me, is to overhaul the team and start again. The team is getting old, and I wonder some of these players have the pride to play for the team. Lippi put on an flu epidemic for an excuse, but the game of this magnitude, the tiredness should not be the deciding factor. Adrenaline should be pumping and players should work their hearts out in such game. We were defeated and derseverley so. And I give congratulation to the Premeirship for improving dramatically over the last 10years. Nevertheless, one deafeat doesn't necessarily mean that Man U is better than us. It is up to the result at the end of season to decide, which is the better team. It is up to players to respond to the defeat, if they don't, I expect many of them will get the boot in the summer.

P.S. I do have to agree with you that many of Juve players overrated like Zambrotta, and Trez. However, I think Camo is a worldclass winger, it is just my opinion anyway.

 

[Jun-hide]

By the way,

I think Thuram, Buffon, and Del Piero, is absolute top tier players in our team.

 

[DAVIDZ]

Guys, I hate to say this, but I just watched the game again. I think even if DP played, we would have lost the game. We just looked awful out there, and the way manchester was passing the ball made us look little school boys.

Juventus needs to find a player like Zidane again. I know its easier said than done, but realistically we won't do anything in Europe without a midfielder a la Zidane. Sure, we can win the scudetto over and over but the CL is a whole diffenrent matter. I know the board is bringing back players like Miccoli, and Maresca, but we still need that crucial link between midfiled and fowards. Nedved is doing well in his new role, but as many other players in our squad, he needs to be put back in his old and more natural position....same goes for DV(whats this midfield crap??), and that Zambro should be sent back to Bari or wherever he came from.

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
By the way,

I think Thuram, Buffon, and Del Piero, is absolute top tier players in our team.

Well i absolutely agree no question, but to be honest I cannot actually think of a world class right back, infact in history that is one position where there have not being many top class performers compared to other positions

Do not get me wrong, I do consider Davids and Nedved as world class performers but not the best and certainly not in the way they are deployed at Juventus, Nedved is a world class m/fer but an ordinary playmaker while Davids will be better suited as a defensive mid/er but for some reason he thinks he is a playmaker and his consttant holding onto the ball caused the second goal at old trafford

I do think Beckham is a world class passer and crosser of the ball, Keane is a world class midfielder who never deludes himself to be a playmaker and Rvn has shown to be a world class striker as his Cl record attests. What more do you guys want, he has scored 21 in about 23 matches in the greatest club comp in the world
If that was a Juve player he will be regarded as the greatest ever

Trez is a world class finisher but unlike Rvn contributes absolutely nothing else to his side and its always like playing with one man down, he has to be taught how to move defenders around and holding onto the ball more

Ferrara and Montero have been world class in their day but against top class teams, they cannot be trusted to play together anymore

I do not think Man united is better than us and thats why I was pretty annoyed with our display but then again against the top teams you cannot play a right winger at left back, 2 aging and slow defenders, no defensively disciplined midfileder, a Conte way past his best, a striker without skills on the left wing, a forward without movement as a lone striker and a defender as a m/fer and not expect to be spanked

Anyways having said all this we might go all the way but we will need a lot of luck cos based on our ability we are not good enuff in Cl level as 4 YEARS has shown, not it aint bad luck or injury worries, its lack of class within the squad that has embarassed us time and time again and the fault lies in thehands of those who buy players good enuff for serieA but are dreadfully short on the bigger stage

 

[Jun-hide]

Denco,
Just wondering, do you think it could be the way we play that it suits us better for Serie A than CL?
Anyway, I do agree with on Nedved and Davids. Davids drools on the ball way too long whereas he should be using his energy to win the tackles and put pressure on the opponents. To be honest, he did neither of these on the night. Also, I cannot agree with more that Lippi is not using Neved the best way possible. Neved should be used as a runner into the box, rather than creating chances. His passing is just above average and has very little vision. I think Nedved best attribute is his energy, and goal scoring ability for a midfielder. It may well be that we just don't have anyone to play playmaker role this season beside him. Alex maybe but I don't think Alex is as accurate passer as he is advertised. He has vision but the accuracy needed for a playmaker. Therefore, I, too believe, it is imperative to buy a class midfielder who can take control of the ball, be it Aimar, Van der Vaart, Maresca, and so forth.
Also, I do partly agree with on Thuram. Thuram, in my view, should be playing as CB against Man U, in hind sight. He would cover the lack of pace in the middle, and is actually a lot better CB than most ppl in the forum thinks. He was amazing in that role for Parma, and I can't see why he can't do the same for Juve, even though Parma deployed sweeper system which is quite different from playing orthodox back four. He is a world class talent both as RB and CB, but I think his talent is wasted playing in that RB position. By the way, Carlos Alberto, Javier Zanetti, Facchetti are some of great right backs played in the game, although Facchetti is more reknowned as a leftback.

I don't think we are favorite to win the CL but I think as long as we can keep the basics which are play simple attack, pressurize opponents, move without the ball, quick transition from defence to attack, and keep the backline solid by keeping compact shape then I think we have outside chance of winning CL. And of course, no injury to Del Piero, Buffon would be crucial.

By the way, is it just me, who thinks Van Nisterlooy's movement is overrated. I don't think he is as natural goal scorer as people rate him as. I personally believe his good goalscoring record is partly due to the good service from his teammates. Nevertheless, Nisterlooy is very good at holding the ball, and is ideal targetman/goal scorer. A top 5 striker, though, I don't think he is.

 

[denco]

Jun to answer your question as briefly as I can as there are many aspects to consider but number one is the the fact in SerieA like years ago in the Epl teams just surrender to Man united without a fight, and thats the way most teams in SerieA treat us especially at the del alpi, the only team who showed little respect destroyed us and that was Lazio while other teams just come without any conviction whatsoever hoping for damage limitations and thats it

Its no coincidence that we have not being convincing against teams that cannot stand us and wanna beat us so badly like Lazio, Roma, Inter and Milan

In Cl you have teams who have the mentality of attacking which is not really how Italians view things, they feel having 4 shots at goal in a game is attacking football and you rarely see any Italian team attacking en masse , they rely too heavily on strikers to score and playmakers to create

I was reading when Trapatoni described italy's performance against Portugal as spectacular, the scary thing is that he meant it, i#he is not senile or anything, its just in his mind thats what attacking is all about

The result is the be all and end all in Italian football so how a team plays even if its unconvincing is irrelevant as long as you win hence they struggle in Cl as teams from Spain e.g do not just want to beat you they want to play well while doing it

Btw I didn't mean I don't know any good right backs, its just that if you ask anyone for left backs of world class quality, they could mention 6 very good candidates while for right back its not the same

 

[Vinman]

I watched the match, and I can say that it was the WORST I've ever saw Juve play. WE EMBARASSED OURSELVES !!!!!!

I was literally nauseated after the game, never can I remember feeling this badly after a Juve loss.

Man U exposed us for what we are , an AVERAGE at best side with an aging defense, an OVERATED midfield, and a one man team. Without DP, Juve is feeble !!!

If what I say pisses some people off, so be it. It's the 100% truth, and anyone can see it !!!! Man U showed Serie A, and the rest of the CL just how easy it is to beat us with a strong counter attack that keeps coming.

Let me get this straight; Fulham can get a draw with Man U, while Man City tied AND beat them. This means our level of ability compares to a team like Sunderland, WERE NO BETTER !!!!!!!!

The bonehead awards go to Lippi for not having this team ready to win- did anyone else hear what he said before this game ?? He said "this game isnt decisive- we can lose or tie and still be in the race " IS HE FU***ING KIDDING ????? When is it a must win situation , when were about to be eliminated ?????????????

The biggest bonehead award goes to Igor "FRANKENSTEIN" Tudor- nice assist on RVN goal idiot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Maher]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
Well, here's my perspective on things, bearing in mind that I feel completely and utterly humiliated and embarassed right now.

Buffon: Did OK I guess, but the second goal he could have at least moved he looked far from at his unbeatable best, thats for sure. Perhaps we can use the flu excuse, but really he just didn't seem up for it.

Thuram: Our best defender, which isn't saying a lot, since the others were all crap. Wasn't his usual self, but maybe again this is due to flu. Played OK, did nothing wrong really except not kicking Ferrara hard enough!

Ferrara: Poor game for Ciro IMO. COmbined with Montero, they played as if they were even older than they are. Let Giggs waltz right through the middle of them twice, which is unforgiveable, particularly as they didn't even get close to him!

Montero: Even worse! what he was doing with that reckless slide attempt for the first goal god only knows. As a whole, this central defence partnership obviously is not good enough for Europe, as we have seen in the past weeks.

Zambrotta: Must have read the dictionary definition of 'piss-poor' before the game, and modelled himself on it! What he was doing for the first goal only he can tell, and then minutes later he attempted the same suicidal backpass yet again! Unbelievable! His crossing was generally poor too

Conte: No substitute for Tach. He obviously lacks the required skills to still be playing at this level, as he was outplayed by Phil Neville and Butt. Terrible pass to concede possession for Giggs' second goal as well.

Camoranesi: Not his best game by any stretch, but still our most dangerous player. Worked tirelessly right to the end for the cause, putting in some fantastic crosses, and actually keeping the ball very well. Worked well with Nedved towards the end when defeat was assured

Davids: Did OK really, but I wish he'd stop pissing about on the ball. How many times does he think he can get away with trying to take on three players at once, then falling over to win a dubious FK? That aside though, he played wuite well, though as usual his passing wasn't great.

Nedved: Didn't really get a grip on the game as we should have liked. When Nedved gets a grip on a game, he can change the entire course of it, but last night he was not really up for it. After it was 3-0, he started playing well to give him credit, but we needed him before that.

Di Vaio: Was he even playing?

Trezeguet: Very poor. How many piss chances does he need to score? Seriously, Van Nistlerooy would have buried at least two of Trezeguet's chances last night. His header onto the bar was very poor, should have scored, as in that occasion where he tried to flick it over keane on to his right side
aside from his chances, he did absolutely bugger all, like always. If he's not scoring, he's no ue whatsoever for the team.

Overall, Manchester United looked like they could cut through us at will last night, whereas we never seriously looked like scoring. We missed dp more than ever last night, and it howed. Without him, we are nothing, just as I'd feared. We are gonna have to hope he returns by the depo game, otherwise my friends, we are OUT!

I DID NOT WATCH THE GAMER LIVE AND I THANKED GOD FOR THAT WHEN I SAW THE GOALS JUVE WITH FULL STRENGTH BEATEN BY A TEAm that could not beat bolton a few days ago althougth last week juve played with 2nd line players and dominated the game whats happining here?????

Believe me guys this is a fact althougth it is too shame to admit it juve dont have the experience to handle CL and even if they go to the second round they will go out immidietly and i will not be surprised if deportivo won in the next game in torino.

 

[Darin]

it was the worst juve i have ever watched

 

[Layce Erayce]

just a few things i want to say: dont judge juve by their last 3 seasons. this is our second season not our third. we cant tire of our performance already because as a matter of fact we were considerably unlucky.

compared to the likes of spanish and english teams we have jack shit experience in europe, as we hardly ever get past the group stages, until hopefully this season.

our first team is decent, but we have no depth. our defence is very very fragile and exposed in the CL, but I dont blame them completely- they are used to serie a and its hard to get used to MU's attacking style.

Lippi is doing very well so far, and as long as he is cut a bit of slack i dont see a problem.

The approach Ferguson has taken at MU has built up a very strong team- evident from their success against virtually any good team in the CL or the EPL until recently.

I think that Lippi is a smart man and should do the right things.

The problems we have so far that need to be fixed:

1. defence
2. squad depth-we need subs and good ones.
3. consistency, form and adaptation- we need to be able to handle various types of teams with different styles of play completely.

IMHO thats the key to controlling the game. once you know their game well, you know their strengths and weaknesses and accordingly adapt yourself.

forum closed.

 

[Holden]

Vinman you are 100% correct.

No one can imagine exactly how ashamed and embaressed I felt as I watched that game and the amount of sh*t I had to take after. So, on behalf of every Juve fan who had the mis-fortune of being in England at the time, I'd like to say 'THANKS A F**KING MILLION':fero:

 

[Vinman]

If you ask me 5 years from now what I remember most about this season, it would be our FLOP with Man U

 

[Martin]

Not if we beat them in the semis

Like that's gonna happen