[ITA] Serie A 2014/2015 (26 Viewers)

[Badass J Elkann]

I think it more so depends on who else wants him. If teams like PSG, ManCity, ManU, Chelsea, etc go in for him, that price tag will skyrocket pretty fast.

unless psg has a mass clear out I can't see them paying 40 mill on one player and still comply with ffp which they are already under scrutiny for.

Man city - possible but again either one or both Dzeko and Jovetic will have to leave, however I think lacazette will be their big buy this summer

chelsea - again I'm not convinced he will join them, as much as I rate dybala he is not quite yet the finished article, Mourinho tends to buy proven players

man utd - need to prioritise their midfield and defence first

I'm not saying he will not go to any one of those clubs but I'm just thinking outside the box on this one

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Post Ironic]

Are you seriously rofl'ing at people while using statistic as your only argument?

I bet talents scouts are useless and computers should be used from now one

Disclaiming: I think both are very talented.

As a forward, goals and assists are pretty much the only things that matter. You can have all the skill in the world, and be a terrible finisher, and where does that get you? You can create more chances than almost anyone in the league á la Gervinho and make a dogs breakfast of finishing, and where does that get you?

Berardi scores, he creates goals. On an almost unprecedented scale for a 19-20 year old in Serie A.

Dybala is a more skilled player, has more flair, etc. hence the reason I place them on a similar level, but those stating that Dybala is clearly above Berardi, are being ridiculous, and ignoring the only empirical evidence available, in order to go with their "eye-test".

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Using "empirical evidence" in the rating of footballers. Come the $#@! on

So I should go by the "eye-test" of random Tuz members instead, who say that Dybala is clearly better based on how he looks on the pitch under their "educated gaze", even though goals scored, assists provided suggest the polar opposite?

 

[Maddy]

As a forward, goals and assists are pretty much the only things that matter. You can have all the skill in the world, and be a terrible finisher, and where does that get you? You can create more chances than almost anyone in the league á la Gervinho and make a dogs breakfast of finishing, and where does that get you?

Berardi scores, he creates goals. On an almost unprecedented scale for a 19-20 year old in Serie A.

Dybala is a more skilled player, has more flair, etc. hence the reason I place them on a similar level, but those stating that Dybala is clearly above Berardi, are being ridiculous, and ignoring the only empirical evidence available, in order to go with their "eye-test".

There's no empirical evidence. There's some stats and then there's some qualities you can observe. But claiming empirical evidence is just plain wrong.

By your "empirical evidence" Gilardino was a bigger prospect than Zlatan.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Dybala has a higher ceiling than Berardi currently, other than some imaginary "eye-test" that pretty much means nothing. The only empirical evidence available, the statistics over the last two years, suggest the complete opposite. Add to that, that Berardi is 10 months younger than DYbala, and you're talking out your ass in saying he is clearly a step above Berardi.

My statement was just an example of ridiculous and absurd exaggeration too. I could look at Berardi's career stats thus far and suggest he's on pace to be the best Italian forward of all time. It sure is silly though. As is this idea that Dybala, based on 23 games, and some "eye-test" is clearly better.

No, no. Two different things. It would be ridiculous to predict their futures with certainty. But that's not what me or anyone here is doing.

What we're discussing is actual talent, how skilled they are as individuals. And in that regard Dybala is much more of a complete package and has shown a sort of quality that usually ends up with that player becoming special. Berardi, to my eyes, hasn't.

Maybe i'm talking out of my ass or maybe I've seen Football legends in a weekly basis when they were just kids, starting their careers and what kind of talent they had at such young age. It kinda gives you an idea or a better "eye test" for what is the real deal and what isn't.

I don't need to tell you how i never "jizz in my pants" for just any hyped up kid who's the new this and the new that. Many here do. I don't. So if i say Dybala has shown a much greater variety in terms of skills, both technical and physical, it's because i believe he did based on what I've seen in all my years of watching this great sport and great players before they were great players.

 

[Maddy]

So I should go by the "eye-test" of random Tuz members instead, who say that Dybala is clearly better based on how he looks on the pitch under their "educated gaze", even though goals scored, assists provided suggest the polar opposite?

You should compare them. But your claim of empirical evidence makes no sense.

 

[Post Ironic]

There's no empirical evidence. There's some stats and then there's some qualities you can observe. But claiming empirical evidence is just plain wrong.

By your "empirical evidence" Gilardino was a bigger prospect than Zlatan.

Statistics are empirical evidence. They don't mean everything, but creating goals is the point of being on the pitch for attacking players. Berardi has done this better than Dybala in their respective careers so far, and while being a year younger. That's a fact. Does it mean Berardi will turn out the better player? No. But does watching Dybala and Berardi play give me the idea that Dybala will be much better? Not in the slightest. And should it give anyone that idea? Not in the slightest. The eye-test, when combined with their tangible results (goals, assists) on the pitch should clearly suggest that they both have world-class potential. Placing one above the other currently, and trying to say that it is obvious is just plain stupid.

 

[zizinho]

Man city - possible but again either one or both Dzeko and Jovetic will have to leave, however I think lacazette will be their big buy this summer

i hope everyone is busy with Dybala in the summer and we get him.

or Firmino

 

[Roman]

Agree with this. It's more so the suggestions that he's a clear class above Berardi that are silly to me. What Berardi has done in top flight so far is incredible. He's 20. He clearly has the potential to be world class, just like Dybala.

Oh come on. You massively underrate young players already owned/partial owned by Juventus.

If you can tell that from watching Dybala, I can tell from watching Berardi with his sublime finishing, passing, and instincts that he has the potential to be a top 3 Italian forward/winger of all time. He's 20 and he already has 23 goals and 17 assists in 47 Serie A games. Playing as a winger. That's fucking incredible. It's unheard of.

Statistics are empirical evidence. They don't mean everything, but creating goals is the point of being on the pitch for attacking players. Berardi has done this better than Dybala in their respective careers so far, and while being a year younger. That's a fact. Does it mean Berardi will turn out the better player? No. But does watching Dybala and Berardi play give me the idea that Dybala will be much better? Not in the slightest. And should it give anyone that idea? Not in the slightest. The eye-test, when combined with their tangible results (goals, assists) on the pitch should clearly suggest that they both have world-class potential. Placing one above the other currently, and trying to say that it is obvious is just plain stupid.

Exactly.
+rep.

 

[Post Ironic]

No, no. Two different things. It would be ridiculous to predict their futures with certainty. But that's not what me or anyone here is doing.

What we're discussing is actual talent, how skilled they are as individuals. And in that regard Dybala is much more of a complete package and has shown a sort of quality that usually ends up with that player becoming special. Berardi, to my eyes, hasn't.

Maybe i'm talking out of my ass or maybe I've seen Football legends in a weekly basis when they were just kids, starting their careers and what kind of talent they had at such young age. It kinda gives you an idea or a better "eye test" for what is the real deal and what isn't.

I don't need to tell you how i never "jizz in his pants" for just any hyped up kid who's the new this and the new that. Many here do. I don't. So if i say Dybala has shown a much greater variety in terms of skills, both technical and physical, it's because i believe he did based on what I've seen in all my years of watching this great sport and great players before they were great players.

This I agree with. I think Dybala is the more technically skilled player, he has more "talent", but Berardi has that special something that makes a player lethal in attack, he just takes his chances, to an extent I haven't seen in Serie A by a 19-20 year old in, perhaps, forever. His passing in and around the box is sublime, and his finishing is perfect. It's as though he has ice in his veins, and gets flustered by nothing. It's odd though, because all discipline flies out the window when the opposing team has the ball.

Dybala may end up as the more technical, flair-filled, create his own goals, etc etc. type of forward. But Berardi just looks like a guy who is going to score and score and score, and throw in a bucketload of assists while he's at it... regardless of how he looks while doing it.

 

[Maddy]

Statistics are empirical evidence.

You would flunk first semester of Uni if you used the data you are presenting as empirical evidence. It simply lacks accuracy and quality not to mention lack of quantity to be used as empirical evidence.

The rest of your arguments I actually agree with.

I would prefer Dybala over Berardi tho, but that's cause Berardi ain't a fit in our current system in my opinion.

 

[Roman]

i hope everyone is busy with Dybala in the summer and we get him.

or Firmino

40M it's alot of money,and IF we are going to pay that money,i think without taking anything from Dybala,but for 40M-50M we can sign a WC ready player,who Dybala is not yet,and we have no guarantees,that he will.

He's amazing,he is great,he might be WC,but for me he's not worth 40M.
Berardi too ofcourse,but he will cost us 15M+Peluso(~19.5M).

For that money there are better and ready options out there.

 

[Post Ironic]

You would flunk first semester of Uni if you used the data you are presenting as empirical evidence. It simply lacks accuracy and quality not to mention lack of quantity to be used as empirical evidence.

The rest of your arguments I actually agree with.

I would prefer Dybala over Berardi tho, but that's cause Berardi ain't a fit in our current system in my opinion.

This is why I would want us to pay 40 mil for Dybala. He fits our current system. And unless we're switching to a 4-3-3, or another formation with wingers, we don't really know how Berardi would look as a 10 behind two forwards, or playing in forward pairing ahead of another 10. It's hard to say.

Dybala probably could play any of the three attacking positions in a 4-3-1-2 with ease due to his very high level of technical ability and skill. Berardi, it's hard to say if he'd shift position well.

 

[Maddy]

This is why I would want us to pay 40 mil for Dybala. He fits our current system. And unless we're switching to a 4-3-3, or another formation with wingers, we don't really know how Berardi would look as a 10 behind two forwards, or playing in forward pairing ahead of another 10. It's hard to say.

Dybala probably could play any of the three attacking positions in a 4-3-1-2 with ease due to his very high level of technical ability and skill. Berardi, it's hard to say if he'd shift position well.

I want both

 

[CrimsonianKing]

40M it's alot of money,and IF we are going to pay that money,i think without taking anything from Dybala,but for 40M-50M we can sign a WC ready player,who Dybala is not yet,and we have no guarantees,that he will.

He's amazing,he is great,he might be WC,but for me he's not worth 40M.
Berardi too ofcourse,but he will cost us 15M+Peluso(~19.5M).

For that money there are better and ready options out there.

There are no guarantees whatsoever anyone will become world class. You either buy a talented youngster and hope for the best or go for proven players.

Hell, it isn't even guaranteed that a proven player will flourish at our team. Many things could go wrong; He could get injured, can't adapt to the lifestyle in said country or our team's system, internal fights, etc.

For that money there are lots of options out there, that i agree with. Better or not only the future will tell.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

i hope everyone is busy with Dybala in the summer and we get him.

or Firmino

or BOTH! X infinite!!!!!!!!!

 

[Roman]

We really should change our style to more of a 4-3-2-1/4-3-3 if Berardi is coming.

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There are no guarantees whatsoever anyone will become world class. You either buy a talented youngster and hope for the best or go for proven players.

Hell, it isn't even guaranteed that a proven player will flourish at our team. Many things could go wrong; He could get injured, can't adapt to the lifestyle in said country or our team's system, internal fights, etc.

For that money there are lots of options out there, that i agree with. Better or not only the future will tell.

I agree,of course no guarntees on nothing.
But for 40M i would prefer to go with a high level and ready player,than a talent who is might be there someday/tommorow.

If we'll have any chance to get him for under 30M,ofcourse it's a no brainer.

 

[zizinho]

This is why I would want us to pay 40 mil for Dybala. He fits our current system. And unless we're switching to a 4-3-3, or another formation with wingers, we don't really know how Berardi would look as a 10 behind two forwards, or playing in forward pairing ahead of another 10. It's hard to say.

Dybala probably could play any of the three attacking positions in a 4-3-1-2 with ease due to his very high level of technical ability and skill. Berardi, it's hard to say if he'd shift position well.

but we dont even know what system we are gonna use next season. in this current (4-3-1-2) i cant see Berardi working either (i could be wrong, im basing this on what ive seen from him), but if we would field a 4-3-2-1 with Berardi and Tevez behind Morata, i can see him fit in very well. he would have a similar role he has now at Sassuolo

 

[Roman]

but we dont even know what system we are gonna use next season. in this current (4-3-1-2) i cant see Berardi working either (i could be wrong, im basing this on what ive seen from him), but if we would field a 4-3-2-1 with Berardi and Tevez behind Morata, i can see him fit in very well. he would have a similar role he has now at Sassuolo

 

[CrimsonianKing]

6 year deal w/Adidas: 23.25 million a season + 6 million for licensing and merchandise activities.

6 year sponsorship deal w/Fiat: 17 million a season.

Total annual income starting 2015-2016: 46.25 million + CL revenue + possible sale of Pogba +100 million?

Aren't we getting more money in the CL because we're the only Italian team left? How much more, does anyone know?

 

[Mark]

Aren't we getting more money in the CL because we're the only Italian team left? How much more, does anyone know?

peanuts! Probably to pay for our new hotel or something.