Israeli-Palestinian conflict (33 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
3,024
For the money that they throw around, their influence is clearly quite larger than any demographic that they could claim to represent. As for university funding, you only need to see how they've handled protests to know who has actual influence there though. I remember while I was attending college, the SJP group was never given funding and pretty much not allowed to do anything in general. Meanwhile, a faculty member was allowed to invite Pamela Geller to speak. I've witnessed the disparity first hand, and it's clear which way the power goes.

This is unfortunately a country-wide thing though, I wouldn't put it as a campus issue.
Perhaps. Don't know when it was and if it's still as you remember. AIPAC money is chump change compared to the money spent yearly by Qatar and others like China on American academia.

My favorite example is the New York Times, being somehow both clearly pro-Israel while also being pro-Palestinian.

It is surely not "everyone" that thinks this inconceivable, as there is definite evidence that such incidents are occurring. This is equivalent to me claiming there are no incidents of antisemitism actually happening just because I and anyone I know would never commit any. You can't say the government is beholden to a settler party, then also say no one could possibly wish to purposefully harm Palestinians. You, understandably of course, think very highly of your countrymen in terms of a desire for peaceful coexistence. There's without a doubt in my mind a countless number of Rabin assassinators out there right now.
First just to clarify, I didn't mean there are no incidents where civilian casualties are taken into account and the army still proceed with an action, it is still a war and there is an acceptable collateral damage (what acceptable is another issue), I meant there are no incident where we attack civilians directly with the only aim to kill them. It just doesn't happen. For this you will never find evidence because there isn't and no one provided one yet. But you will find plenty of sources that claim or insinuate it happens. I have served for 5 years in total, not once did I hear even a suggestion that it's ok to shot an uninvolved person, it can happen as soldier are still humans, they can be an extremist with a easy finger on the trigger, or panic or make a bad judgment call, it is never a policy.

Secondly, this is not how the IDF operates, the government has no say whatsoever on operational matters, The PM can only authorize or not certain operations. They can't influence the army code of conduct or engagement directives. It's not how it works. The government is beholden to the settler part to stay in power but the army isn't, on the contrary, the Israeli army is traditionally left wing, and receives a lot of public criticism from the settler party for being leftist, dovish and not aggressive enough. The army is also accused for not letting officers with attachment to the settlement movements rise past a certain rank.

Also worth mentioning the Bibi himself doesn't let the settler movement MK's in the war cabinet as the army refuses to co-operate with them. Of course I'm not trying to convince anyone the above is true, just an example of how something that will scream bias to us wont necessarily for an outsider. Hence bias is sunjective.

You're right, and there's no reason to believe that any of the owners of major platforms are anything other than pro-Israel based on their actions and how their algorithms seem to work.
Tick-tock is Chinese who are clearly anti-Israeli and I think its highly debatable twitter is not (still) a liberal/leftist/progressive dominated platform. Let's agree to disagree then.


I don't see it as infantilizing them to the extent that you're implying. Remember that Israel is the one with all the power here, by default that gives them more responsibility. How if they cannot even defend their own borders from settlers, for example? They don't even control their own water supply. Israelis/Jews have chosen poorly as well in the past, and arguably still do as we can see. Doesn't mean they don't deserve their own safe homeland too. Obviously it can't be a 1:1 comparison, but why would it be a false equivalency? If anything, Jews didn't have it nearly as bad under the British that the Palestinians do in the West Bank or Gaza.
They don't have borders because they didn't agree to any, that is exactly my point. By doing that they invertedly or not empowered the settler movement.

It's a false equivalency to oct. 7 because the Jewish terror groups were by and far a small, borderline fringe groups that were strongly opposed by vast majority of Jews and the Jewish leadership in the mandate. Hamas had over 70% of votes in the Gaza election and are still widely supported in Gaza and the west bank. That's why there is no elections in the west bank for over a decade, they will win.
 

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Oggy

and the Cockroaches
Dec 27, 2005
7,512
Oh my… How clueless/deluded are you?

Every social platform is censoring everything that is coming form Gaza or goes against Israel, I know at least 20 people with either blocked accounts/or threats to be blocked just because they shared some of the footage.

And while Tik-Tok is techically chinese, let’s be real, it’s not.

Also I love how skimmed the protests and the way students and professors were treated just for sitting down and asking for something to be done. We saw less violent measures taken against protestors on Jan 6th.
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
3,024
Oh my… How clueless/deluded are you?

Every social platform is censoring everything that is coming form Gaza or goes against Israel, I know at least 20 people with either blocked accounts/or threats to be blocked just because they shared some of the footage.

And while Tik-Tok is techically chinese, let’s be real, it’s not.

Also I love how skimmed the protests and the way students and professors were treated just for sitting down and asking for something to be done. We saw less violent measures taken against protestors on Jan 6th.
Oh my… How clueless/deluded are you?
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
3,024
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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,334

This is anecdotal, but a couple of months ago I had both pro Israel and pro Palestine posts and reels on my Instagram feed. Today it is all anti Israel. I don't know if this is because of my specific case or if Instagram itself is behind it. Though I doubt it's the latter, given the big chief is Zuckerberg.

Have to say that at my age I don't really watch any of it. I don't want to sound insensitive, but I have no way of knowing if the picture of the dead baby that is showing up in my feed is even real.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,616
Every single quote she gave is either fake, reconstructed or completely taken out of context. This is exactly how you build a false narrative.

Expect the Churchill one maybe, but people being racists in the 40's is hardly surprising is it?

- - - Updated - - -



I used to like engaging with you even when we greatly disagree. I don't see the point anymore; you are too far gone emotionally.
The Churchill quote is what he said to the peel commission that recommended the partition. These are not the views of ordinary people these are the views of senior people in positions of power who shaped the world we live in.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe just maybe the world outside the western mainstream media is against Israel because mass murder is wrong.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,790
Perhaps. Don't know when it was and if it's still as you remember. AIPAC money is chump change compared to the money spent yearly by Qatar and others like China on American academia.
I can promise you it is, as is on other campuses as seen in the news. I could explain even more about my case too, but I'd rather not divulge anymore information that could be considered personal here. I believe it for sure, but who the money goes to and the power they wield is what really matters.

First just to clarify, I didn't mean there are no incidents where civilian casualties are taken into account and the army still proceed with an action, it is still a war and there is an acceptable collateral damage (what acceptable is another issue), I meant there are no incident where we attack civilians directly with the only aim to kill them. It just doesn't happen. For this you will never find evidence because there isn't and no one provided one yet. But you will find plenty of sources that claim or insinuate it happens. I have served for 5 years in total, not once did I hear even a suggestion that it's ok to shot an uninvolved person, it can happen as soldier are still humans, they can be an extremist with a easy finger on the trigger, or panic or make a bad judgment call, it is never a policy.

Secondly, this is not how the IDF operates, the government has no say whatsoever on operational matters, The PM can only authorize or not certain operations. They can't influence the army code of conduct or engagement directives. It's not how it works. The government is beholden to the settler part to stay in power but the army isn't, on the contrary, the Israeli army is traditionally left wing, and receives a lot of public criticism from the settler party for being leftist, dovish and not aggressive enough. The army is also accused for not letting officers with attachment to the settlement movements rise past a certain rank.

Also worth mentioning the Bibi himself doesn't let the settler movement MK's in the war cabinet as the army refuses to co-operate with them. Of course I'm not trying to convince anyone the above is true, just an example of how something that will scream bias to us wont necessarily for an outsider. Hence bias is sunjective.
No no, I'm not talking about "collateral." I'm definitely not trying to tell you what you experienced firsthand and who you know, but it is absolutely impossible that not everyone that serves is like you. I think you might not be connecting some dots here. We've already established there's a definitely not insignificantly sized settler movement and right-wing base, now when you consider that everyone has to serve... You don't need leadership to support it, and when you again consider the sheer amount of people dedicated solely to eradicating Palestinians I don't see how it could be denied that these people exist in the IDF.

They don't have borders because they didn't agree to any, that is exactly my point. By doing that they invertedly or not empowered the settler movement.
How about this, do you agree that the establishment of a Palestinian state is the only way in which there can eventually be a lasting peace?

It's a false equivalency to oct. 7 because the Jewish terror groups were by and far a small, borderline fringe groups that were strongly opposed by vast majority of Jews and the Jewish leadership in the mandate. Hamas had over 70% of votes in the Gaza election and are still widely supported in Gaza and the west bank. That's why there is no elections in the west bank for over a decade, they will win.
I didn't specify October 7th though, I'm speaking conceptually and just provided two examples to illustrate it. There are reasons as to why people vote the way they do, anywhere. As Seven said, "there is no way the average Israeli person and the average Palestine person do not want peace," so with this in mind what daily lives do people need to have in order to vote for a terrorist organization?

Tick-tock is Chinese who are clearly anti-Israeli and I think its highly debatable twitter is not (still) a liberal/leftist/progressive dominated platform. Let's agree to disagree then.
Noooooooooooo way in hell is Twitter still liberal at this point, not that it really matters anyway.

POSTS, yes. Moderation and promotion is another thing entirely. I know plenty of people that were shadowbanned for posting things sympathetic to Palestinians. Can't say I've seen the same thing experienced by Israel-aligned posters, no matter how unhinged and genocidal they were.
 

Orgut

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2002
19,322
I can promise you it is, as is on other campuses as seen in the news. I could explain even more about my case too, but I'd rather not divulge anymore information that could be considered personal here. I believe it for sure, but who the money goes to and the power they wield is what really matters.


No no, I'm not talking about "collateral." I'm definitely not trying to tell you what you experienced firsthand and who you know, but it is absolutely impossible that not everyone that serves is like you. I think you might not be connecting some dots here. We've already established there's a definitely not insignificantly sized settler movement and right-wing base, now when you consider that everyone has to serve... You don't need leadership to support it, and when you again consider the sheer amount of people dedicated solely to eradicating Palestinians I don't see how it could be denied that these people exist in the IDF.


How about this, do you agree that the establishment of a Palestinian state is the only way in which there can eventually be a lasting peace?


I didn't specify October 7th though, I'm speaking conceptually and just provided two examples to illustrate it. There are reasons as to why people vote the way they do, anywhere. As Seven said, "there is no way the average Israeli person and the average Palestine person do not want peace," so with this in mind what daily lives do people need to have in order to vote for a terrorist organization?



Noooooooooooo way in hell is Twitter still liberal at this point, not that it really matters anyway.

POSTS, yes. Moderation and promotion is another thing entirely. I know plenty of people that were shadowbanned for posting things sympathetic to Palestinians. Can't say I've seen the same thing experienced by Israel-aligned posters, no matter how unhinged and genocidal they were.
A Palestinian state and peace? You definitely have no idea dont you.
When you hear Palestinians who are inside our own government talking about Palestinians need to occupy Israel and basically saying in a less direct words (as he cant directly say it) that Israelis should stop existing. This is not media by the way - This is him live and I personally heard it so no miscomunication or any sort of propoganda.
And who is this guy? Probably one of the least extremist there are.

Also peace? It would have happened in seconds should the Palestinians really want to.

And last and not least - Genocide? You want Israel to stop the war? Tell them to bring back the hostages and it will immediately stop.

Contrary to what you said - There are mounts of evidence that what Im saying is true.

Hope it will put some sense into you as if it doesnt, nothing will.

You want one example - no problem. Take Jordan as an example - They actually wanted peace and since then there is 0 wars between the countries.
 

icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
36,354
A Palestinian state and peace? You definitely have no idea dont you.
When you hear Palestinians who are inside our own government talking about Palestinians need to occupy Israel and basically saying in a less direct words (as he cant directly say it) that Israelis should stop existing. This is not media by the way - This is him live and I personally heard it so no miscomunication or any sort of propoganda.
And who is this guy? Probably one of the least extremist there are.

Also peace? It would have happened in seconds should the Palestinians really want to.
:lol2:
And last and not least - Genocide? You want Israel to stop the war? Tell them to bring back the hostages and it will immediately stop.

Contrary to what you said - There are mounts of evidence that what Im saying is true.

Hope it will put some sense into you as if it doesnt, nothing will.

You want one example - no problem. Take Jordan as an example - They actually wanted peace and since then there is 0 wars between the countries.
:lol2::lol2:
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
3,024
I can promise you it is, as is on other campuses as seen in the news. I could explain even more about my case too, but I'd rather not divulge anymore information that could be considered personal here. I believe it for sure, but who the money goes to and the power they wield is what really matters.


No no, I'm not talking about "collateral." I'm definitely not trying to tell you what you experienced firsthand and who you know, but it is absolutely impossible that not everyone that serves is like you. I think you might not be connecting some dots here. We've already established there's a definitely not insignificantly sized settler movement and right-wing base, now when you consider that everyone has to serve... You don't need leadership to support it, and when you again consider the sheer amount of people dedicated solely to eradicating Palestinians I don't see how it could be denied that these people exist in the IDF.
There is no "settlers" unit or a "right wing" one, everyone serves together from every layer of society. Could there be an extremist or a genocidal person in a unit? sure , I actually said there are in that same post, but in the framing of a military the individual is insignificant, as said there can be incident, never a policy. Also being right wing or even a settler doesn't make you automatically a murderer or willing to kill uninvolved civilians, this is a completely perverse assumption, even within those groups those type of people are a minority, just as on the other side.

And as I said individuals can and have/will kill civilians unfortunately but it is never by an order. It cannot happen and it's is what we call a "black order" and a soldier is obliged to refuse it.

How about this, do you agree that the establishment of a Palestinian state is the only way in which there can eventually be a lasting peace?
Yes. And I'm completely against the settlements as well if it wasn't clear. But I also think there are not the roadblock to peace as people make them out to be, there are solution to this. Might not be with the current make-up of this government but I haven't lost hope.

I didn't specify October 7th though, I'm speaking conceptually and just provided two examples to illustrate it. There are reasons as to why people vote the way they do, anywhere. As Seven said, "there is no way the average Israeli person and the average Palestine person do not want peace," so with this in mind what daily lives do people need to have in order to vote for a terrorist organization?
This is how I took it. Still the point stand. But to your point and I think this is something people from the west especially are having hard time to come to terms with or simply downplay is the religious ideological element of the conflict and what do the Palestinians really want, Not all but a significant part of them at least.

Westerners (and I'm generalizing) and Pro-Palestinians, when interacting in English or with the west, are "westplaning" the aspirations of the Palestinian national movement. It is much more digestible to a westerner to hear that all they want is ending the "occupation", no one bother to actually listen to them, what is the occupation? is it 67 borders? or is it the whole thing? 2 state or one? The reality is far more complex then binary.

The Palestinians and their supporter's rhetoric in English and in Arabic are of completely different realities, When you only see the "kid meal warped in a bow" version of it I think you get a very distorted and simplified version of reality. Every poll you will look at shows about 50/50 spilt among regular Palestinians for the 2-state solution (not it's feasibility but on whether it's the final desired solution). Support for armed struggle is about the same. Every poll shows that voting between Abbas and Hamas in the west back will be landslide Hamas victory, voting for Hamas is not voting for armed resistance to Israeli occupation, it's voting for the complete destruction of the Jewish state.

Whether they vote like this due to Israeli action or that Israeli action and policies are due to theirs action is a bit of a chicken and the egg question. Arab mobs in the mandate have killed jews in terror attack many years before Israel was a country. This is why the conflict is more complex then people prefer to think. And we didn't even mention the wider geopolitical conflict this is just a part of, were more players then just the two sides have pull. Heck even the palastinians themself are split into two ideological entities.

Noooooooooooo way in hell is Twitter still liberal at this point, not that it really matters anyway.

POSTS, yes. Moderation and promotion is another thing entirely. I know plenty of people that were shadowbanned for posting things sympathetic to Palestinians. Can't say I've seen the same thing experienced by Israel-aligned posters, no matter how unhinged and genocidal they were.
Edelson also looked at the posts’ page views — there were 236 million views for pro-Palestinian posts, 14 million for pro-Israeli posts and 492 million views for neutral or general posts.

Finally, Edelson compared whether the number of posts and the post views were proportionate — this enabled Edelson to conclude whether TikTok was amplifying certain types of posts.

“It’s not enough to look at content,” Edelson says. “Big differences in how people experience content come from differences in amplification too.”

Content was amplified on both sides, the research suggests.

“There’s periods of time when TikTok is disproportionately amplifying pro-Palestine content, and there’s times when it’s disproportionately amplifying pro-Israel content,” Edelson says. “When you sum up everything over the entire study period, they amplify those two things equally, but it changes over time, initially.”
Those are the statistics. We each have our own anecdotal view of things. Again, let's agree to disagree on this.

- - - Updated - - -

The Churchill quote is what he said to the peel commission that recommended the partition. These are not the views of ordinary people these are the views of senior people in positions of power who shaped the world we live in.

- - - Updated - - -



Maybe just maybe the world outside the western mainstream media is against Israel because mass murder is wrong.
As I said look up the Israeli quotes individually and judge yourselves if they are taken out of context or not. The point I was making was that everyone manipulates the narrative. And you, like most of us are just parrots.

And perhaps, but that's beside the point. The argument was whether pro-Palestinians view are being stifled on social platforms, which they clearly aren't, as shown.
 
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AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,790
There is no "settlers" unit or a "right wing" one, everyone serves together from every layer of society. Could there be an extremist or a genocidal person in a unit? sure , I actually said there are in that same post, but in the framing of a military the individual is insignificant, as said there can be incident, never a policy. Also being right wing or even a settler doesn't make you automatically a murderer or willing to kill uninvolved civilians, this is a completely perverse assumption, even within those groups those type of people are a minority, just as on the other side.

And as I said individuals can and have/will kill civilians unfortunately but it is never by an order. It cannot happen and it's is what we call a "black order" and a soldier is obliged to refuse it.
Either way, these are still real actions that have real consequences, whether done by individuals or not. But regardless, from the outside the amount of individual mistakes over many years make it look at best like the IDF is incompetent or leadership ineffectual, and at worst it looks a pattern. Even today, I'm sure you've seen it, what the hell is this supposed to be?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...nded-palestinian-jeep-during-raid-2024-06-22/

Yes. And I'm completely against the settlements as well if it wasn't clear. But I also think there are not the roadblock to peace as people make them out to be, there are solution to this. Might not be with the current make-up of this government but I haven't lost hope.
Good, then we're on the same page. I knew you were against settlements, so no worries. Neither Israelis or Palestinians will be completely satisfied with the result, but that goes without saying. Somehow though, people like Orgut seem to ignore that. Here's some New York Jews btw :touched:

This is how I took it. Still the point stand. But to your point and I think this is something people from the west especially are having hard time to come to terms with or simply downplay is the religious ideological element of the conflict and what do the Palestinians really want, Not all but a significant part of them at least.

Westerners (and I'm generalizing) and Pro-Palestinians, when interacting in English or with the west, are "westplaning" the aspirations of the Palestinian national movement. It is much more digestible to a westerner to hear that all they want is ending the "occupation", no one bother to actually listen to them, what is the occupation? is it 67 borders? or is it the whole thing? 2 state or one? The reality is far more complex then binary.

The Palestinians and their supporter's rhetoric in English and in Arabic are of completely different realities, When you only see the "kid meal warped in a bow" version of it I think you get a very distorted and simplified version of reality. Every poll you will look at shows about 50/50 spilt among regular Palestinians for the 2-state solution (not it's feasibility but on whether it's the final desired solution). Support for armed struggle is about the same. Every poll shows that voting between Abbas and Hamas in the west back will be landslide Hamas victory, voting for Hamas is not voting for armed resistance to Israeli occupation, it's voting for the complete destruction of the Jewish state.

Whether they vote like this due to Israeli action or that Israeli action and policies are due to theirs action is a bit of a chicken and the egg question. Arab mobs in the mandate have killed jews in terror attack many years before Israel was a country. This is why the conflict is more complex then people prefer to think. And we didn't even mention the wider geopolitical conflict this is just a part of, were more players then just the two sides have pull. Heck even the palastinians themself are split into two ideological entities.
Nah, I don't deny there is a religious aspect. There is for Israel too, afterall.

Well like I said, a good peace would end up being one where neither side is completely satisfied. Everything that you said above can also be applied to Jews as well. What do they want, is it 2 states? The whole thing like the retard I posted above? It can apply to anything really, what do Americans want America to look like? It's not something that can be used as an excuse in my opinion. To add to that as I know that you know, the longer this goes on, the more it will radicalize people.

Well yes, this is helpful to an Israeli government not seriously interested in the creation of a Palestinian state.

A Palestinian state and peace? You definitely have no idea dont you.
When you hear Palestinians who are inside our own government talking about Palestinians need to occupy Israel and basically saying in a less direct words (as he cant directly say it) that Israelis should stop existing. This is not media by the way - This is him live and I personally heard it so no miscomunication or any sort of propoganda.
And who is this guy? Probably one of the least extremist there are.

Also peace? It would have happened in seconds should the Palestinians really want to.

And last and not least - Genocide? You want Israel to stop the war? Tell them to bring back the hostages and it will immediately stop.

Contrary to what you said - There are mounts of evidence that what Im saying is true.

Hope it will put some sense into you as if it doesnt, nothing will.

You want one example - no problem. Take Jordan as an example - They actually wanted peace and since then there is 0 wars between the countries.
You're not actually saying anything.

But you're right man. Israelis are perfect, just, and do no wrong. Palestinians are inherently evil and all of them solely wish to kill all Jews, and it's all because they're cartoon villains that don't have actual capacity for reasoning and motivations! How fun!
 

Orgut

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2002
19,322
Either way, these are still real actions that have real consequences, whether done by individuals or not. But regardless, from the outside the amount of individual mistakes over many years make it look at best like the IDF is incompetent or leadership ineffectual, and at worst it looks a pattern. Even today, I'm sure you've seen it, what the hell is this supposed to be?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...nded-palestinian-jeep-during-raid-2024-06-22/


Good, then we're on the same page. I knew you were against settlements, so no worries. Neither Israelis or Palestinians will be completely satisfied with the result, but that goes without saying. Somehow though, people like Orgut seem to ignore that. Here's some New York Jews btw :touched:


Nah, I don't deny there is a religious aspect. There is for Israel too, afterall.

Well like I said, a good peace would end up being one where neither side is completely satisfied. Everything that you said above can also be applied to Jews as well. What do they want, is it 2 states? The whole thing like the retard I posted above? It can apply to anything really, what do Americans want America to look like? It's not something that can be used as an excuse in my opinion. To add to that as I know that you know, the longer this goes on, the more it will radicalize people.

Well yes, this is helpful to an Israeli government not seriously interested in the creation of a Palestinian state.


You're not actually saying anything.

But you're right man. Israelis are perfect, just, and do no wrong. Palestinians are inherently evil and all of them solely wish to kill all Jews, and it's all because they're cartoon villains that don't have actual capacity for reasoning and motivations! How fun!
I never said Israel are perfect. These are your words not mine. I was just contradicting your absurd claims.
You stated "facts" while I stated facts!

As for the bold part - Please relate to what I have said and not what I havent.

I will gladly see some settlements given back if it means peace but its definitely not going to be the case. If one of the most reasonable ones says it - What do you expect from more radical ones. Contrary to you Im not talking about what the media says but more of what I have heard LIVE which is a huge difference.


Im right yeah I know I am, but about the things I have said and not the things I havent said and the last part is purely you taking my words out of context.

As for the peace thing - Israel want peace but do not believe in it - government I rather not talk about this government as I oppose it more than you think. Many of us oppose it.

Also you make peace with enemies and not with friends.
2 state solution? Maybe but not with this government and not with the Palestinians being taught to hate from the day they are born. and dont even try to contradict it as I personally got stones 5mm from my car while driving.

I hope there is peace in the end but the way things are going - World War 3 is way closer than peace between the sides.
 
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AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,790
I never said Israel are perfect. These are your words not mine. I was just contradicting your absurd claims.
You stated "facts" while I stated facts!

As for the bold part - Please relate to what I have said and not what I havent.

I will gladly see
some settlements given back if it means peace but its definitely not going to be the case. If one of the most reasonable ones says it - What do you expect from more radical ones. Contrary to you Im not talking about what the media says but more of what I have heard LIVE which is a huge difference.


Im right yeah I know I am, but about the things I have said and not the things I havent said and the last part is purely you taking my words out of context.

As for the peace thing - Israel want peace but do not believe in it - government I rather not talk about this government as I oppose it more than you think. Many of us oppose it.

Also you make peace with enemies and not with friends.
2 state solution? Maybe but not with this government and not with the Palestinians being taught to hate from the day they are born. and dont even try to contradict it as I personally got stones 5mm from my car while driving.

I hope there is peace in the end but the way things are going - World War 3 is way closer than peace between the sides.
We're done here.
 

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