Israeli-Palestinian conflict (13 Viewers)

[Tomice]

Who said israel needs to be erased off the map? If a fair deal is proposed the arab states will pressure palis to take it, been saying that since the beginning.


But as someone who knows about this a little more than you, with all due respect, 2 points to consider:

-It's silly and naive to think israel wants peace or 2 state solution at all

-you and tomice underestimate how stubborn the other side is and how much this means to arabs and muslims. Israel will NEVER win this by the sword.

It's your version of the truth, with all due respect. If your starting point is that Israel doesn't want peace then that explain the rest of your narrative. We will not agree on that.

Fact is they were offered fair peace offers several times and rejected them. How long will you ask a girl out and get rejected until you give up?

I'm resigned to the fact this conflict might never end. I'm not underestimate them, if anything they are underestimating us and that is part of the reason they refuse to compromise. They belive they will outlast us and wear us down, they think we lack the fortitude and will run back to Europe someday.

I suggest watching all 3 parts

Arabs would take that if you include eastern Jerusalem, and a demilitarized golan heights. But even what you suggest above will never be offered by israel. They seem to believe they can impose their will through force, they cant and wont. Best case scenario they lose, worst case scenario they drag the whole world into WW3.

Barak's camp david offer and Ollmert's offer both included eastern Jerusalem and more then 95% of the west bank and gaza.

Golan heights is a Syrian issue not a palestinian one and we will never give it back. It is the most important strategic region in the area, this will always be off the table and therefor an unrealistic ask.

 

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[Seven]

Who said israel needs to be erased off the map? If a fair deal is proposed the arab states will pressure palis to take it, been saying that since the beginning.


But as someone who knows about this a little more than you, with all due respect, 2 points to consider:

-It's silly and naive to think israel wants peace or 2 state solution at all

-you and tomice underestimate how stubborn the other side is and how much this means to arabs and muslims. Israel will NEVER win this by the sword.

I admit there is much I have to learn about all of this.

But my gut feeling is that Israel has never been interested in a two state solution. I believe they will concede just about nothing.

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[Seven]

Arabs would take that if you include eastern Jerusalem, and a demilitarized golan heights. But even what you suggest above will never be offered by israel. They seem to believe they can impose their will through force, they cant and wont. Best case scenario they lose, worst case scenario they drag the whole world into WW3.

People will not appreciate me saying this, but in the long run Israel will either have to adapt or it will disappear.

It's a very small country with a very small population. It has soaked up resources from foreign nations for decades now, but it is quickly becoming quite impopular.

And popularity matters.

Not because countries will switch allegiance. They won't. But because they won't support Israel as much as they once did. And without that support it is an island in an entirely hostile region. No country survives that in the long run.

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[Tomice]

People will not appreciate me saying this, but in the long run Israel will either have to adapt or it will disappear.

It's a very small country with a very small population. It has soaked up resources from foreign nations for decades now, but it is quickly becoming quite impopular.

And popularity matters.

Not because countries will switch allegiance. They won't. But because they won't support Israel as much as they once did. And without that support it is an island in an entirely hostile region. No country survives that in the long run.

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What resources are we soaking up? We get nothing for free. it is a bit of a jewish trope no?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

People will not appreciate me saying this, but in the long run Israel will either have to adapt or it will disappear.

It's a very small country with a very small population. It has soaked up resources from foreign nations for decades now, but it is quickly becoming quite impopular.

And popularity matters.

Not because countries will switch allegiance. They won't. But because they won't support Israel as much as they once did. And without that support it is an island in an entirely hostile region. No country survives that in the long run.

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That's my estimation as well, this is the apogee of their influence, ought to capitalize on it imo

 

[Seven]

What resources are we soaking up? We get nothing for free. it is a bit of a jewish trope no?

Dude, come on.

Earlier you were saying how Israel didn't need anyone. You wouldn't even be able to charge your phone if it weren't for other countries.

Look at what you need in arms and artillery, look at what you need in manpower, look at how much support you need from other countries... Compared to the size that you are, you are draining so much energy from everyone.

But be my guest and refuse those 14 billion Biden wants to send your way.

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[Tomice]

Dude, come on.

Earlier you were saying how Israel didn't need anyone. You wouldn't even be able to charge your phone if it weren't for other countries.

Look at what you need in arms and artillery, look at what you need in manpower, look at how much support you need from other countries... Compared to the size that you are, you are draining so much energy from everyone.

But be my guest and refuse those 14 billion Biden wants to send your way.

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I never said we dont need anyone, I said we have other options if suddenly the US and the west abandon us.

Regarding energy, which is my field of work I will just say you are wrong. We have huge reserve of natural gas and in house capabilities and resources to build nucler power plants if we will need them.

We dont need anything in arms or artillery, but we are jews so we dont say no to a free gift . If anything we are loosing potential income in the 10's of billions a year due to the US limits on who can we sell to and what we can develop. We dropped our fighter jet development program due to american pressure cause they didn't want the competition.

What manpower? Are you just trolling now?

Beside the US we receive zero aid from any other country. In money or otherwise. Even the american aid is almost insignificent compered to our gdp. All american aid is basically a voucher to buy American, it's not free money as I explained above.

Just for the record we have the same gdp per capita as Belgium. Higher HDI rating then Spain, Austria and France. Not bad for a country 80 years old, small, resourcless and in a shity part of the world.

 

[Post Ironic]

That's my estimation as well, this is the apogee of their influence, ought to capitalize on it imo

Like you said in reply to my last comments, Israel hasn’t seemed in the mood to make any offers at all post-Olmert in 06 or whatever year that was… but now would really be the time to renew that offer and make it repeatedly until there is enough international pressure that Palestine takes it.

Otherwise the future of the region is very dark, regardless of whether Israel can survive as an island there or not.

 

[Tomice]

Like you said in reply to my last comments, Israel hasn’t seemed in the mood to make any offers at all post-Olmert in 06 or whatever year that was… but now would really be the time to renew that offer and make it repeatedly until there is enough international pressure that Palestine takes it.

Otherwise the future of the region is very dark, regardless of whether Israel can survive as an island there or not.

Agree. We had shity leadership for the last 15 years or so. I'm hopefull that will change in the near future.

 

[Seven]

I never said we dont need anyone, I said we have other options if suddenly the US and the west abandon us.

Regarding energy, which is my field of work I will just say you are wrong. We have huge reserve of natural gas and in house capabilities and resources to build nucler power plants if we will need them.

We dont need anything in arms or artillery, but we are jews so we dont say no to a free gift . If anything we are loosing potential income in the 10's of billions a year due to the US limits on who can we sell to and what we can develop. We dropped our fighter jet development program due to american pressure cause they didn't want the competition.

What manpower? Are you just trolling now?

Beside the US we receive zero aid from any other country. In money or otherwise. Even the american aid is almost insignificent compered to our gdp. All american aid is basically a voucher to buy American, it's not free money as I explained above.

Just for the record we have the same gdp per capita as Belgium. Higher HDI rating then Spain, Austria and France. Not bad for a country 80 years old, small, resourcless and in a shity part of the world.

I didn't mean energy as in powering your country. I meant it as in effort.

There are no two ways about it: Israel is a drain on the international community. It would probably be easier if it didn't exist.

That's why I'm saying: if I were Israel, I'd think about dropping the arrogance and finally start to think about an honest solution. Because all I hear from Israel is how they don't need anybody and they'll do it all themselves. But that's pretty disingenuous if you only exist by the virtue of others.

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[Tomice]

I didn't mean energy as in powering your country. I meant it as in effort.

There are no two ways about it: Israel is a drain on the international community. It would probably be easier if it didn't exist.

That's why I'm saying: if I were Israel, I'd think about dropping the arrogance and finally start to think about an honest solution. Because all I hear from Israel is how they don't need anybody and they'll do it all themselves. But that's pretty disingenuous if you only exist by the virtue of others.

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Oh great European master, thank you for letting us exist.

If you can't back up your argument with any facts or stats I see no point in debating further. All you offer as counterpoint is patronising attitude typical of western europeans. You do you man

 

[Seven]

Oh great European master, thank you for letting us exist.

If you can't back up your argument with any facts or stats I see no point in debating further. All you offer as counterpoint is patronising attitude typical of western europeans. You do you man

It's not about that.

The same is true for Belgium. It's just that I accept that we exist within an international community and we'd be wise to accept that truth. You do nothing of the sort.

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[Tomice]

It's not about that.

The same is true for Belgium. It's just that I accept that we exist within an international community and we'd be wise to accept that truth. You do nothing of the sort.

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What is this international community you talk about? The UN? Where the arab block and it's dependants African countries dominate the votes? Where the human right council includes UAE, Sudan, Qatar, Cuba and others?
The same UN who passed more resolutions against Israel then against the whole world combined?

Sounds like a bad joke but it isn't

I will not even go into the catastrophe that is UNRWA.

To me that international community you speak about is one of if not the largest detriment to peace between us and the palestinians. Maybe instead of being sure you have the answers to all world problems, just back off? Clearly the world community hasn't helped for the last 80 years.

Anyway I don't see in what way we deny it. You seem you expect gratitude and servitude, not cooperation.

 

[Seven]

What is this international community you talk about? The UN? Where the arab block and it's dependants African countries dominate the votes? Where the human right council includes UAE, Sudan, Qatar, Cuba and others?
The same UN who passed more resolutions against Israel then against the whole world combined?

Sounds like a bad joke but it isn't

I will not even go into the catastrophe that is UNRWA.

To me that international community you speak about is one of if not the largest detriment to peace between us and the palestinians. Maybe instead of being sure you have the answers to all world problems, just back off? Clearly the world community hasn't helped for the last 80 years.

Anyway I don't see in what way we deny it. You seem you expect gratitude and servitude, not cooperation.

And here we see your true nature.

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[Tomice]

And here we see your true nature.

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I'll avoid using platitudes

 

[swag]

Look, it's not genocide as long as it's the people we want to eradicate.

 

[U Picciriddu]

When you order a protest from Alibaba

 

[AlexDP705]

When you order a protest from Alibaba

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_Party_Kerala

 

[Bjerknes]

So, it’s happening.

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1715749358442881297?s=46&t=44zFspkwtn4Oth1i9vk6Xg

This sounds rather… terroristic.

- - - Updated - - -

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1715732618128331087?s=46&t=44zFspkwtn4Oth1i9vk6Xg

And there’s the clause of “you might be a terrorist”

 

[JuveJay]

Nice disclaimer.