Israeli-Palestinian conflict (55 Viewers)

[Osman]

I mean, they also mean nothing to any of the neighbouring countries that want to wipe them out. That area of the world is a complete mess, and there are no good guys involved, regardless of the spin from both sides.

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No I meant litterally, war crimes and illegal settlements have no meaning for Israel, there's no Hauge tribunal or economic sanctions or UN resolutions to adhere to, those things don't apply to Israel at all. As they don't to the US and select few other big world powers in the West (I would add China to this, Russia can have their assets frozen, but no one even dreams to economically or politically touching China).


That's litterally what I mean when I say war crimes don't matter for Israel, there's no real consequences for it.


Everyone else in that region risk very real consequences for their actions, perceived real or invented, as it was with the fake WMDs for 2nd Iraqi invasion/war, and the very real war crimes on Kurds that was the pretext for the 1st Iraq war. And the countless sanctions, red listing or embargoes for others etc (mainly Iran, very deservedly so).

 

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[Post Ironic]

No I meant litterally, war crimes and illegal settlements have no meaning for Israel, there's no Hauge tribunal or economic sanctions or UN resolutions to adhere to, those things don't apply to Israel at all. As they don't to the US and select few other big world powers in the West (I would add China to this, Russia can have their assets frozen, but no one even dreams to economically or politically touching China).


That's litterally what I mean when I say war crimes don't matter for Israel, there's no real consequences for it.


Everyone else in that region risk very real consequences for their actions, perceived real or invented, as it was with the fake WMDs for 2nd Iraqi invasion/war, and the very real war crimes on Kurds that was the pretext for the 1st Iraq war. And the countless sanctions, red listing or embargoes for others etc (mainly Iran, very deservedly so).

This is how it is for every major west-aligned nato nation… not saying that’s right, but it’s how the world currently works.

Nor have the real risks and consequences stopped any of their neighbours from being state sponsors of/complicit with terrorist orgs.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

@GordoDeCentral on fire today

I don't claim israel hasn't committed any war crimes. Surly I don't know the ratio. Or all the incidents.

To me even the idea that an Israeli ( in that position especially) will deliberately strike an hospital to cause civilian deaths is inconceivable. For many, many reasons, internal, logical and from intimate knowledge of my fellow people and my army.

It's not my place to "sell" this to anyone so I don't even bother. People choose their own narratives.

I'm sure you don't necessarily agree with many things said by myself or others in this thread, but know that I'm hoping for the absolute best for you and your people, as I'm sure the rest of us are as well.

 

[Post Ironic]

The fallout from this in the west better be enormous.

There are certain events that you see unfold and get the feeling that it changes things, I hope this is it for the better.

You mean from this, right? Palestinian militants killing their own people?


Time for Hamas and PIJ to be destroyed. The West needs to hold Israel accountable as far as minimizing civilian casualties, but these terrorist organizations on their doorstep need to be eradicated.

 

[zizinho]

You mean from this, right? Palestinian militants killing their own people?


Time for Hamas and PIJ to be destroyed. The West needs to hold Israel accountable as far as minimizing civilian casualties, but these terrorist organizations on their doorstep need to be eradicated.

Source trust me bro or something more?

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

You mean from this, right? Palestinian militants killing their own people?


Time for Hamas and PIJ to be destroyed. The West needs to hold Israel accountable as far as minimizing civilian casualties, but these terrorist organizations on their doorstep need to be eradicated.

You can remove them, and then another will pop up in their place. Probably worse versions at that as well, we've seen it happen already in the region. This has gone on for decades now, far too long and personally, I don't care much for temporary solutions to problems. It only stops in one of two ways after their removal:
1. Israelis and/or Palestinians are wiped out completely.
2. An imperfect division of two separate states.

I'm hoping for that second one.

 

[Post Ironic]

Source trust me bro or something more?

Quite a few sources available now if you take the time to look. I posted some of them earlier in the thread. There’s footage, analysis of that footage, signal intercepts, geolocations and time stamps of PIJ rocket launch followed right after by the hospital explosion.

Aside from this, the original source that it was an Israeli strike that took out the hospital was the Hamas Gaza Health Authority. And no one even hesitated believing that shady ass source. Turns out that it was the hospital parking lot that was hit and all evidence points to a PIJ rocket which were being fired from a location right next to the hospital lol.

People seem inclined to believe Hamas misinformation and propaganda though, so to each their own…

 

[zizinho]

Quite a few sources available now if you take the time to look. I posted some of them earlier in the thread. There’s footage, analysis of that footage, signal intercepts, geolocations and time stamps of PIJ rocket launch followed right after by the hospital explosion.

Aside from this, the original source that it was an Israeli strike that took out the hospital was the Hamas Gaza Health Authority. And no one even hesitated believing that shady ass source. Turns out that it was the hospital parking lot that was hit and all evidence points to a PIJ rocket which were being fired from a location right next to the hospital lol.

People seem inclined to believe Hamas misinformation and propaganda though, so to each their own…

Can't be bothered to look, who's is the footage and analysis?

 

[Post Ironic]

You can remove them, and then another will pop up in their place. Probably worse versions at that as well, we've seen it happen already in the region. This has gone on for decades now, far too long and personally, I don't care much for temporary solutions to problems. It only stops in one of two ways after their removal:
1. Israelis and/or Palestinians are wiped out completely.
2. An imperfect division of two separate states.

I'm hoping for that second one.

You understand that Arafat and Abbas both rejected two state solutions offered by Israel in the 90s and 00s that gave them ~95% of the West Bank (plus attached Israeli land to make up for the 5%), Gaza, and a connection between the two (bridge I believe). And then Hamas came to power in Gaza, a group that rejects entirely the two state solution and has in their charter the destruction of the Israeli state.

Perhaps the Palestinian leaders need to get their shit together and negotiate on the two-state solution in good faith for the first time… maybe then the second one becomes a possibility?

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https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206...hat-happened-at-al-ahli-arab-hospital-in-gaza

Photos from the following day also appear to show little damage to the hospital buildings, and a relatively small blast zone from the explosion. That damage pattern is inconsistent with a large air-dropped bomb, which would leave a crater and create a shockwave that would damage or destroy surrounding structures, says Marc Garlasco, a former targeting officer for the U.S. military who now works for PAX, a Netherlands-based non-profit.

"It's very clear to me that this is not an airstrike." Garlasco says. Israeli bombs typically leave craters three to ten meters in size, and are designed to create a large shockwave that propels shrapnel over a large area.

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@zizinho

There’s a summary of released info in the NPR article. Though we obviously haven’t seen what the NSC and senate intelligence committee have.

And this article:

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405

 

[zizinho]

So a video that shows a rocket exploding mid air for unknown reasons, which may or may not have something to do with the explosion that followed on the ground. Plus a skit of two "Arabs" talking about the explosion posted by IDF. Here is another analysis of the videos, but I'm not sure if it counts since it's the "other side".
https://x.com/EekadFacts/status/1714757664721285538?s=20

More importantly, this just serves as a distraction, it's not the only explosion and there will be more I'm sure. Israelis should retreat to their part of Palestine, otherwise many more will die

 

[Post Ironic]

So a video that shows a rocket exploding mid air for unknown reasons, which may or may not have something to do with the explosion that followed on the ground. Plus a skit of two "Arabs" talking about the explosion posted by IDF. Here is another analysis of the videos, but I'm not sure if it counts since it's the "other side".
https://x.com/EekadFacts/status/1714757664721285538?s=20

More importantly, this just serves as a distraction, it's not the only explosion and there will be more I'm sure. Israelis should retreat to their part of Palestine, otherwise many more will die

So you’re just ignoring the munitions expert interviewed above and former UN war crimes investigator. And all the photos and footage that show it very obviously wasn’t a JDAM. Sure thing, dude.

And yes, I trust the US NSC and senate intelligence committee saying the evidence shows it wasn’t an Israeli strike far more than I trust Hamas and PIJ. “Trust the terrorists” seems like an odd motto to live by.

 

[campionesidd]

So you’re just ignoring the munitions expert interviewed above and former UN war crimes investigator. And all the photos and footage that show it very obviously wasn’t a JDAM. Sure thing, dude.

And yes, I trust the US NSC and senate intelligence committee saying the evidence shows it wasn’t an Israeli strike far more than I trust Hamas and PIJ. “Trust the terrorists” seems like an odd motto to live by.

Not everyone is open minded like you are. Some start from the conclusion and work their way back to fit it.

 

[zizinho]

So you’re just ignoring the munitions expert interviewed above and former UN war crimes investigator. And all the photos and footage that show it very obviously wasn’t a JDAM. Sure thing, dude.

And yes, I trust the US NSC and senate intelligence committee saying the evidence shows it wasn’t an Israeli strike far more than I trust Hamas and PIJ. “Trust the terrorists” seems like an odd motto to live by.

Is what I posted Hamas? The rest you say is just talk.

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Not everyone is open minded like you are. Some start from the conclusion and work their way back to fit it.

Funny

 

[Tomice]

@GordoDeCentral on fire today


I'm sure you don't necessarily agree with many things said by myself or others in this thread, but know that I'm hoping for the absolute best for you and your people, as I'm sure the rest of us are as well.

All good brother, there was an incident yesterday so I was a bit more emotional than usual. Appreciate it.

 

[BayernFan]

Makes you wonder if they got their information from someone inside Mosad. Else I don't know how they could have such detailed information.

Or maybe from some of those Palestinians who's working there. Anyway, just speculation.

 

[Seven]

You can't be serious. If you or anyone else think Israelis will ever put their future in someone else's hands then you haven't been paying attention.

We as a collective have zero trust towards both Europeans and arabs.

We've been helpless enough times in our history. It might be our downfall but those days are over.

You are nothing without the US.

The only reason you exist in the first place is because Europeans allowed you to.

So I'm not sure what you're ranting about, but it makes you look like a fool.

 

[BayernFan]

This is sickening to watch, if you're sensitive don't.

 

[Tomice]

You are nothing without the US.

The only reason you exist in the first place is because Europeans allowed you to.

So I'm not sure what you're ranting about, but it makes you look like a fool.

Sure buddy

 

[Seven]

Sure buddy

I understand that Israel doesn't exactly trust others. They don't have much reason to.

But Isreal is tiny. What is it? 10 million people? Without support from the US and Europe, it would be gone tomorrow.

 

[Tomice]

I understand that Israel doesn't exactly trust others. They don't have much reason to.

But Isreal is tiny. What is it? 10 million people? Without support from the US and Europe, it would be gone tomorrow.

It is tiny, but with a pretty good deterrence established and a strong enconomy for our size. The only real threat is Iran and it's proxis.

While the US does support us I think its a bit overstated. I don't see how Europe support us in any real way. The US support also comes with a cost, nothing is free or comes from the goodness of their heart.

Do not misunderstand me. I'm not saying that we will flourish under sanction for example or something similar but we are perfectly able to stand on our own.