Israeli-Palestinian conflict (75 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
Looks like there is now video, data, drone footage, and signals intercepts as hard evidence that PIJ/Hamas rocket was what hit the hospital…. but so many still on the “genocidal Israeli attack” bandwagon. Yikes. And the same news orgs and people who with zero info immediately claimed it was an Israeli airstrike gone silent now. Zero retractions.
Hamas isn’t internationally recognised as a sovereign country but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be in war with them. They are a political party in control of Gaza though, as I said in my previous post. Or please rephrase in easier English if you feel that my answer doesn’t cover your question, because if it doesn’t cover I’m not sure if I fully understand you, and please share your thought process behind it.
Well would ya look at this:
https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-hos...ave-been-caused-by-israel-says-biden-12986850
I hope there will be worldwide protests against Hamas/PIJ terrorists bombing a hospital if that turns out to be what happened…
https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-hos...ave-been-caused-by-israel-says-biden-12986850
I hope there will be worldwide protests against Hamas/PIJ terrorists bombing a hospital if that turns out to be what happened…
OMG the Jews are now facing their own January 6th! 
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-pal...amas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-pal...amas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
OMG the Jews are now facing their own January 6th!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-palest imoinian-protest-underway-at-capitol-rotunda-uscp-detains-some-demonstrators-israel-hamas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-palest imoinian-protest-underway-at-capitol-rotunda-uscp-detains-some-demonstrators-israel-hamas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
OMG the Jews are now facing their own January 6th!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-pal...amas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-pal...amas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
MAGA folx gonna be mad jealous. I wonder if these insurrectionists will erect a scaffold too? Who do they want to hang? Kamala Harris?
OMG the Jews are now facing their own January 6th!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-pal...amas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-pal...amas-war-capitol-hill-jewish-voices-for-peace
Not commit genocide. You genuinely see no other alternative?
They’ve already regained control internally and secured the “border”. The Hamas attack worked because their intelligence and defence was asleep at the wheel and they did not anticipate the way this attack was carried out. Now they’re on high alert and can ensure they never sleep at the wheel again. There is no existential threat here. Do your job and foil attacks just like any intelligence service does.
They can exchange hostages, they can allow aid to come through, they can show maturity and restraint, and then do the hard work of surgical attacks, intelligence gathering, assassinations… the kind of thing intelligence agencies are paid to do.
In a nutshell they can stand by the values they claim to believe and represent. If you’re following international law only when it’s convenient then what’s the point. If all it takes is a terrorist attack for a supposedly liberal democratic country to do away with all the rules of war that liberal democracies freaking invented themselves, then it’s all a sham.
Israel should hold itself to a higher standard than Hamas, and if it doesn’t then at least the West should if there will be any legitimacy left to the liberal world order after this conflict.
Right now Israel is not even held to the same standard as Hamas. It’s collective punishment is supported.
They’ve already regained control internally and secured the “border”. The Hamas attack worked because their intelligence and defence was asleep at the wheel and they did not anticipate the way this attack was carried out. Now they’re on high alert and can ensure they never sleep at the wheel again. There is no existential threat here. Do your job and foil attacks just like any intelligence service does.
They can exchange hostages, they can allow aid to come through, they can show maturity and restraint, and then do the hard work of surgical attacks, intelligence gathering, assassinations… the kind of thing intelligence agencies are paid to do.
In a nutshell they can stand by the values they claim to believe and represent. If you’re following international law only when it’s convenient then what’s the point. If all it takes is a terrorist attack for a supposedly liberal democratic country to do away with all the rules of war that liberal democracies freaking invented themselves, then it’s all a sham.
Israel should hold itself to a higher standard than Hamas, and if it doesn’t then at least the West should if there will be any legitimacy left to the liberal world order after this conflict.
Right now Israel is not even held to the same standard as Hamas. It’s collective punishment is supported.
I believe the biggest obstacle for peace is america. The unconditional support it gives israel provides 0 incentive for their government to want or seek peace. So America's role will need to change if there's any chance for a long lasting peace.
Israels biggest concern is security. The three threats to its security are palestinians, arab states, and iran. The offer that i think would be fair and would guarantee israel security is:
-gaza plus west bank(all of the west bank): new palestinian state.
-jerusalem, internationally run or some formula like that, point is neither party can claim it.
-golan heights back to syria
-normalized relations with arab states
-automatic membership in nato for israel
The point is get israel covered security wise, give palis their own country, and isolate Iran.
Israels biggest concern is security. The three threats to its security are palestinians, arab states, and iran. The offer that i think would be fair and would guarantee israel security is:
-gaza plus west bank(all of the west bank): new palestinian state.
-jerusalem, internationally run or some formula like that, point is neither party can claim it.
-golan heights back to syria
-normalized relations with arab states
-automatic membership in nato for israel
The point is get israel covered security wise, give palis their own country, and isolate Iran.
What's even more curious, as I told my Co workers today, is this narrow focus on the propoganda disinformation war of this specific hospital, as horrible as it is it was bombed, like its the only casualty of civilians going on.
I get it was being seen more of as a the straw that broke the camels back, hence strong reactions, but I mean FFS they are levelling rest of Gaza all week?
You can't be serious. If you or anyone else think Israelis will ever put their future in someone else's hands then you haven't been paying attention.
We as a collective have zero trust towards both Europeans and arabs.
We've been helpless enough times in our history. It might be our downfall but those days are over.
We as a collective have zero trust towards both Europeans and arabs.
We've been helpless enough times in our history. It might be our downfall but those days are over.
US support is vital to the existence of Israel. And i think boomers are the last generation to predominantly back israel. Gen X and younger will not be the rabid zionists their parent and grandparents were.
I’m glad to read this answer, because the rhetoric of ‘occupied-occupiers’ insinuated for me that the only solution would be if Israeli’s left Israel, which would be impossible given the sheer amount of people. The same goes for Palestinians both in Gaza as the West Bank obviously.
I agree with your solution but have to add that it doesn’t really matter for me if piece of land A goes to country X, and piece of land B goes to country Y, bottom line is that a diplomatic solution is probably the best option. My only interest in this conflict is keeping things safe here in Europe, because we feel tensions rising. I’m really on the more neutral front, I don’t really go with ‘everything Israel does is wrong, and the opposite for Palestina’, or vice versa. It’s more complex for me.
I agree with your solution but have to add that it doesn’t really matter for me if piece of land A goes to country X, and piece of land B goes to country Y, bottom line is that a diplomatic solution is probably the best option. My only interest in this conflict is keeping things safe here in Europe, because we feel tensions rising. I’m really on the more neutral front, I don’t really go with ‘everything Israel does is wrong, and the opposite for Palestina’, or vice versa. It’s more complex for me.
We are middle Eastern country not a western one. Even if we pretende otherwise sometimes.
If you would hold us to the standards of our region we are pretty restrained.
What you can analyse coldly as "no longer existantal threat" is a privilege we dont afford ourselves and can't mentally. As a people we are in constant existential threat. Real or imagined.
I also strongly think that most outsiders can't fathom the horrific nature of this "attack". I really don't want to share some of the images and stories that happened.
And it is a shme, as the usa proved in 9/11 following your logic. If it is then way should we pretend to play that game?
And to the bold part I can only say that you should be ashamed of having written that.
If you would hold us to the standards of our region we are pretty restrained.
What you can analyse coldly as "no longer existantal threat" is a privilege we dont afford ourselves and can't mentally. As a people we are in constant existential threat. Real or imagined.
I also strongly think that most outsiders can't fathom the horrific nature of this "attack". I really don't want to share some of the images and stories that happened.
And it is a shme, as the usa proved in 9/11 following your logic. If it is then way should we pretend to play that game?
And to the bold part I can only say that you should be ashamed of having written that.
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