Need to crack down on radicalism and allowing radicals to immigrate in. It’s nonsense allowing people in who have core values and beliefs diametrically opposed to Western Nations core values.
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Israeli-Palestinian conflict (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
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In the early days there was no clear difference in power as it is today. The Palestinian leadership thought they had more leverage. Now in hindsight today they have zero leverage this looks like a huge mistake. Wasn’t as clear cut at the time.
With the benefit of hindsight (knowing that they have lost basically everything) we can say they should have cut their losses early on. Don’t forget that they did not think a separate Jewish state should be created on their lands at all. These concessions happened over time. Think of Ukraine today demanding every inch back from Russia including Crimea. Now you and I as external observers know thats very unlikely to ever happen, but Ukrainian leadership may think there is a real chance to regain all of it. Ofc my analogy breaks in that Ukraine doesnt have much leverage and is going against a giant from the get go.
it’s also important to note that borders are malleable and agreements are pieces of paper that are backed by power. if there is no real power guaranteeing the contract then it’s as good as cellulose. A lot of the settlement expansion is illegal for example but that doesn’t stop Israel from doing it. Perhaps if they took one of those deals in the past they could have built a real military and there would not have been such a huge power imbalance. Maybe there would have been more deterrence.
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Implicit in your statement is that muslim Europeans are not really European citizens. They're European "on paper", the same way Jewish Europeans were suddenly not really Europeans when the going got really rough. Thats a dangerous slippery slope and would be Europeans learning nothing at all from their past mistakes.
The true test of whether you hold the liberal egalitarian values you think you hold is when the going gets rough and social cohesion is hard, not when its easy. Its when the economy is shit, when the world is unstable, when every tribal base instinct in you is on fire. If you want to live up to the European values you claim to hold and want to protect, then it takes persuasion, conversation, dialogue.... really hard grass roots work to sway hearts and minds, not "crack downs".
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Agree with the first bit of what you said "arabs don't value their own or other arabs lives" with caveats about generalization ofc. Its unfortunately still very tribal. In-fighting within the tribe (be it Arab tribe or Islamic) even if at significant human cost does not elicit the same reaction as when it involves foreign powers. Its a huge problem in the culture, holding one's own to very low expectations.
Where I disagree with you is that I don't think its connected to the West's low valuation of Arab lives. This invisibility/lesser valuation is not unique to Arabs, plenty of other peoples across the world are invisible/weigh less, and not so long ago this included jewish people too. This is reflected in domestic politics of "multi-cultural" western countries too, some citizens are more real than others (hence the slogan of BLM btw) and others are occasionally worthy of a "crack down".
With the benefit of hindsight (knowing that they have lost basically everything) we can say they should have cut their losses early on. Don’t forget that they did not think a separate Jewish state should be created on their lands at all. These concessions happened over time. Think of Ukraine today demanding every inch back from Russia including Crimea. Now you and I as external observers know thats very unlikely to ever happen, but Ukrainian leadership may think there is a real chance to regain all of it. Ofc my analogy breaks in that Ukraine doesnt have much leverage and is going against a giant from the get go.
it’s also important to note that borders are malleable and agreements are pieces of paper that are backed by power. if there is no real power guaranteeing the contract then it’s as good as cellulose. A lot of the settlement expansion is illegal for example but that doesn’t stop Israel from doing it. Perhaps if they took one of those deals in the past they could have built a real military and there would not have been such a huge power imbalance. Maybe there would have been more deterrence.
- - - Updated - - -
Implicit in your statement is that muslim Europeans are not really European citizens. They're European "on paper", the same way Jewish Europeans were suddenly not really Europeans when the going got really rough. Thats a dangerous slippery slope and would be Europeans learning nothing at all from their past mistakes.
The true test of whether you hold the liberal egalitarian values you think you hold is when the going gets rough and social cohesion is hard, not when its easy. Its when the economy is shit, when the world is unstable, when every tribal base instinct in you is on fire. If you want to live up to the European values you claim to hold and want to protect, then it takes persuasion, conversation, dialogue.... really hard grass roots work to sway hearts and minds, not "crack downs".
- - - Updated - - -
Agree with the first bit of what you said "arabs don't value their own or other arabs lives" with caveats about generalization ofc. Its unfortunately still very tribal. In-fighting within the tribe (be it Arab tribe or Islamic) even if at significant human cost does not elicit the same reaction as when it involves foreign powers. Its a huge problem in the culture, holding one's own to very low expectations.
Where I disagree with you is that I don't think its connected to the West's low valuation of Arab lives. This invisibility/lesser valuation is not unique to Arabs, plenty of other peoples across the world are invisible/weigh less, and not so long ago this included jewish people too. This is reflected in domestic politics of "multi-cultural" western countries too, some citizens are more real than others (hence the slogan of BLM btw) and others are occasionally worthy of a "crack down".
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Points to him for having him on. But too much of that became petty and talking over each other.
And you know Kamala. She'd probably let out an unfunny wisecrack on the call and laugh in her freakish laugh way, making you think, "Am I being punk'd?"
Heads of state gotta make the heads roll, you know. That how they literally roll.
Sometimes you just gotta wait for the corpse clean-up.
It is pretty rich.
Well, I guess that's more proof that they're not known for their accuracy.
Imagine your big terror attack just went well, you're thinking you've got the world quaking, west will have to deal with you know then you get the call and its her. The disrespect 
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Heads of state gotta make the heads roll, you know. That how they literally roll.
Sometimes you just gotta wait for the corpse clean-up.
Europeans complaining about others “invading” their country 
Well, I guess that's more proof that they're not known for their accuracy.
