Israeli-Palestinian conflict (67 Viewers)

[Tomice]

We're living 70 years after Holocaust, and at some point this society, which touts itself as an oasis in the middle east desert of violence should move on. I understand what you're saying though but honestly I don't give them a pass.

Again, 70 years is nothing imo, we are still talking about my own grandparents. But regardless I agree with you 100%

And it's not about giving a pass, it's just about understanding things for what they are, the truth isn't some excuse. Every Israeli wants to move on so we can become a normal country, it might take another generation or two but i believe we will get there. That's the whole purpose of Israel for us, we will never shed the "persecuted minority" mentality without it.

 

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[Cerval]

So according to you the weaker people have the right to use weapons and should be called as saints while the strong nation should put up with everything because they are stronger and have no right in defending itself.
According to you strong is terrorist and weak is saint.. Nope thats not how it goes..

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The problem with his post is his reference that Israel is the violent that harms the saints..
Every other country would wipe the Palestinians of the earth and no one would even care but since its Israel (and despite not doing what many other countries would do) Israel is being called the bully because they are stronger and lots of countries hates jews..
Should it be another country instead of Israel they would wipe out the entire Palestinians and people wouldnt have even criticise them (Im not saying this is what that needs to be done - I just say because its Israel people criticise first and then listen if they even do that..)

Wow. We can tell by this post that you're a disgusting person

 

[Alin]

This is a contender for the most stupid post of the year.

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bolded the exact same parts

Wtf did i just read lol

 

[Orgut]

This is a contender for the most stupid post of the year.

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bolded the exact same parts

Its more a fact than funny..
Do you think The USA would sit and play nice if you put them instead of Israel?! I think not..

 

[king Ale]

Because it's understandable.

It's a really complicated topic, but in short jews in general think that the world didn't help them during the holocaust, which is basically true. Hence if the world didn't care about the Jewish genocide as it happened why would it care about the palestinians one, unless of course it's been done by Jews. I don't agree or think it holds today but you can make that correlation

Whether you agree with the assertion above about the Jewish genocide or not, It's not rational thinking anyway since the world changed alot since but the Jewish persecuted mentality hasn't. All things considering that might take a while

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Also if you read my response to him you will see that even before I responded to you I mentioned how the Jews are still stuck in the "weak" and oppressed mentality

How is that understandable? If anything, those who were wronged should be the last ones who would commit a similar wrong to a people who were not those who wronged them in the first place (hence there's no possibility of revenge). How is what he said in any way understandable?

 

[Ronn]

Its more a fact than funny..
Do you think The USA would sit and play nice if you put them instead of Israel?! I think not..

It's a fact that nobody cares if another country commits genocide?

 

[Alin]

Wow. We can tell by this post that you're a disgusting person

Don't be so harsh, that's just how the brainwashing works on certain matters in certain parts of the world... other than that he never struck me as a guy that would actually come up and post something as stupid as he did above, he is obviously naive/misinformed and in total contrast with this subject. :thumbs:

 

[Orgut]

That post is the perfect example of the bubbles and echo chambers many israelis/jews live in.

The problem is you are in the bubble of what the media is selling you
Its like some of the fabricated photos they are selling you (not all of them of course) and you like many unfortunately eat it with a spoon
Is Israel perfect?! No, Of course not.. Israel if very far from perfect but Israel is also not that ruthless bully some people make it look like..

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Wow. We can tell by this post that you're a disgusting person

Maybe and maybe not but if you bold the last part as well or at least read it you would see that its not my opinion to wipe people out - I just said other countries would have done it instead while Israel dont

 

[Cerval]

Don't be so harsh, that's just how the brainwashing works on certain matters in certain parts of the world... other than that he never struck me as a guy that would actually come up and post something as stupid as he did above, he is obviously naive/uninformed and in total contrast with this subject. :thumbs:

It basically tells that he doesn't give if a fuck if there's a genocide of a people and he even try to normalize that. Ignorant or not, he's a scumbag

 

[Orgut]

Listen, we shouldn't hold it against anyone who support the palestinians, if we are honest we both would probably do the same if we weren't Israeli. Don't take it personally or as an attack on our values.

Rooting for the weak is an almost involuntary response in today world, we are all thought from a young age to stand up for the weak and the oppressed. Every heroic story we tell as people is always about the underdog defeating the strong, from David and Goliath to Robin hood and the Alamo, look at almost every movie ever made and you will see that.

I mean Israel was overwhelmingly supported by both the left and the right in the west until the late 80's or so, there wasn't even a question regarding the legitimacy or support of Israel beside the fringes of politics, ask yourself what changed? did Israel became more bloodthirsty or the palestinians suddenly abandoned armed resistance? Nope.

Two things happened, Israel solidified its position as a regional power so it was no longer to be viewed as the "weak" side in the Israeli-arab conflict, which leads to the second thing. Since the arab countries abandoned the Palestinians it was no longer viewed as a Israeli-Arab conflict which was the case before then, the whole conflict became lopsided with a clear strong/weak division of roles. I believe the arab countries did this on purpose since they knew they can't defeat Israel militarily but that's another story. The roles just suddenly flipped on us, while mentally we still view ourselves as the weak.

People who live half the world away, on a different planet to ours basically, have their own life, issues and cares to worry about, mostly. they aren't as involved or know the fine details of the Israeli-palestinians conflict as we do, they don't know Israelis or the Palestinians either, just projecting on them predetermined roles in a play . People don't have the time to form an opinion, it's just easier to be on the "good" side while there isn't really one, just a matter of how you frame the story.

I agree

 

[king Ale]

The problem is you are in the bubble of what the media is selling you
Its like some of the fabricated photos they are selling you (not all of them of course) and you like many unfortunately eat it with a spoon
Is Israel perfect?! No, Of course not.. Israel if very far from perfect but Israel is also not that ruthless bully some people make it look like..

What you say in this post is COMPLETELY different from what you said in the original post though.

 

[Alin]

The problem is you are in the bubble of what the media is selling you
Its like some of the fabricated photos they are selling you (not all of them of course) and you like many unfortunately eat it with a spoon
Is Israel perfect?! No, Of course not.. Israel if very far from perfect but Israel is also not that ruthless bully some people make it look like..

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Maybe and maybe not but if you bold the last part as well or at least read it you would see that its not my opinion to wipe people out - I just said other countries would have done it instead while Israel dont

Just stop, please.

You are making a fool out of yourself by somehow justifying genocide.

 

[Orgut]

It basically tells that he doesn't give if a $#@! if there's a genocide of a people and he even try to normalize that. Ignorant or not, he's a scumbag

It basically tells I think other countries will think that.. It doesnt say anything about me being the no`1 supporter for genocide..

 

[Maddy]

The problem is you are in the bubble of what the media is selling you
Its like some of the fabricated photos they are selling you (not all of them of course) and you like many unfortunately eat it with a spoon
Is Israel perfect?! No, Of course not.. Israel if very far from perfect but Israel is also not that ruthless bully some people make it look like..

Just stop.

 

[Orgut]

What you say in this post is COMPLETELY different from what you said in the original post though.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough or that I dont have a specific political preference between left and rights and might support some of the lefties decision and some right wing decision - might object both as well.. Im not a politician, I dont have political skills and Im not in search for ones but I believe a more "central" approach is the best

 

[Maddy]

It basically tells I think other countries will think that.. It doesnt say anything about me being the no`1 supporter for genocide..

Just stop. You are clueless.

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I dont have political skills

No shit Sherlock.

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I just said other countries would have done it instead while Israel dont

Just stop.

 

[Orgut]

Just stop. You are clueless.

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No $#@! Sherlock.

Its not that you have those..

 

[Tomice]

How is that understandable? If anything, those who were wronged should be the last ones who would commit a similar wrong to a people who were not those who wronged them in the first place (hence there's no possibility of revenge). How is what he said in any way understandable?

Do you even read my post or are you just looking to get triggered? I have never claimed it was a rational conclusion, it is what it is.

I think Always responded to you in kind and offered rational arguments whether you agree with them or not. I have never ducked an unconviient argument (like you did several times) or tried and dismiss your views as biased (again, like you did couple of times).

And I can deal with strawman arguments.

However, if you are trying to compare the holocaust (or any genocide for that matter) to the current conflict it is a clear red flag for me personally that any discussion on the subject we might have will be fruitless

 

[Maddy]

Its not that you have those..

Just stop.

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However, if you are trying to compare the holocaust (or any genocide for that matter) to the current conflict it is a clear red flag for me personally that any discussion on the subject we might have will be fruitless

Of course they shouldn't be compared. One is history, the other is present.

What's your take on the idea that the two-state solution is dead, and that at soem point there will be only one state and Israel will need to give palestinians civil rights? Do you fear an apartheid situation in this case?

 

[Orgut]

Just stop.

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Of course they shouldn't be compared. One is history, the other is present.

What's you take on the idea that the two-state solution is dead, and that at soem point there will be only one state and Israel will need to give palestinians civil rights? Do you fear an apartheid situation in this case?

and you from all people tell me to stop..