Israeli-Palestinian conflict (47 Viewers)

[Orgut]

So the latest war has been going on for a while, how many Israelis have been pushed in the ocean thus far?

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Israel using their right to defend themselves

I see the propaganda is working like a charm. This is a graph of casualties prior to the last time Israel felt threatened and decided to self-defence it up.

Holy self-defence, Batman.

I never said Israel are not stronger or not more effective.

So according to you Israel should let people get hurt and not use their defense system just because they are facing Palestine?!
Come on! you are being absurd!

(Sorry about this example who probably shouldnt have anything with this thread but...) With that logic you can take it to football when we face the weaker teams we should not use Tevez Pogba Pirlo and Vidal since we are stronger and we could win with too many goals...
Next time we face Real Madrid we should demand they play without Ronaldo and Bale!

BTW Palestinians killed by Hamas is a much more fitting than by IDF!

 

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[Nzoric]

I never said Israel are not stronger or not more effective.

So according to you Israel should let people get hurt and not use their defense system just because they are facing Palestine?!
Come on! you are being absurd!

(Sorry about this example who probably shouldnt have anything with this thread but...) With that logic you can take it to football when we face the weaker teams we should not use Tevez Pogba Pirlo and Vidal since we are stronger and we could win with too many goals...
Next time we face Real Madrid we should demand they play without Ronaldo and Bale!

BTW Palestinians killed by Hamas is a much more fitting than by IDF!

This is a graph showing the total casualties before the war, in so called peace time. Please do me the honor of actually taking my arguments into consideration before you fire off your bullshit.

You need to realise that Israel, as the only real state and a very wealthy one, holds all the keys to succes and peace in Palestine. The Palestinians, especially in the Gaza strip, are desperate - they have nothing to do. You can't convince a man with a full stomach and some perspective in life to strap on a suicide vest or to go throw stones against IDF soldiers with live ammo. It's up to you to fix it, the Palestinians in the Gaza strip are living like dogs and extremism is breeding amongst them - stop occupying their territories and give them a viable way of life instead of just keeping the status quo, slowly taking away more of their territory while crying "aggressor" everytime one of those laughable rockets are fired from the strip. As it has been pointed out already, Israel is actually benefitting from the current state of affairs and the Israeli + US diplomatic actions in the U.N only serve to keep things as they are. One day the de facto state of affairs will be one where the Palestinians are simply living in Israel and have to deal with it - that's what Israel is working towards.

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Oh and using football analogies to argue something as detrimental as the Israeli occupation and the consequent violations of International Law and International Military Law just shows how morally stockish your position is in this argument is.

 

[Fred]

That is a fact. Most of you believe that the IDF truly aims to kill innocent woman and children, and that Israel is making the lives of the people of Gaza bad in purpose. That is simply not true, but that is what the Hamas makes you believe, and those who try to explain to you the truth mostly fail. Therefor, Hamas' lies and public relations services are better the the Israeli Public diplomacy.

Most of you believe that the Nazi's truly aimed to kill innocent woman and children, and that the Nazi's were making the lives of the Jews bad on purpose. That is simply not true, but that is what the Jews make you believe, and those who try to explain to you the truth mostly fail. Therefor, Jews' lies and public relations services are better the the Nazi Public diplomacy.

 

[Orgut]

This is a graph showing the total casualties before the war, in so called peace time. Please do me the honor of actually taking my arguments into consideration before you fire off your bull$#@!.

You need to realise that Israel, as the only real state and a very wealthy one, holds all the keys to succes and peace in Palestine. The Palestinians, especially in the Gaza strip, are desperate - they have nothing to do. You can't convince a man with a full stomach and some perspective in life to strap on a suicide vest or to go throw stones against IDF soldiers with live ammo. It's up to you to fix it, the Palestinians in the Gaza strip are living like dogs and extremism is breeding amongst them - stop occupying their territories and give them a viable way of life instead of just keeping the status quo, slowly taking away more of their territory while crying "aggressor" everytime one of those laughable rockets are fired from the strip. As it has been pointed out already, Israel is actually benefitting from the current state of affairs and the Israeli + US diplomatic actions in the U.N only serve to keep things as they are. One day the de facto state of affairs will be one where the Palestinians are simply living in Israel and have to deal with it - that's what Israel is working towards.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and using football analogies to argue something as detrimental as the Israeli occupation and the consequent violations of International Law and International Military Law just shows how morally stockish your position is in this argument is.

The thing is in order for both parties to make peace you need both parties willingness
You have Israel`s but you dont have the other side...
As for help them - I guess the money Israel give them in order to improve their lives isnt really a help... The thing is Palestine use the money for bombs and not to improve their position!
The second you realize it the better

Just read Bottom-Lines posts who is not an Israeli... and you see where things really stand

Believe in whatever the pro Palestinian media sells you including the horrible fake photos that are being taken in other places and the numbers of palestinian casualties IDF kills when trying to bomb a house they hide weapon and Hamas people when phone calls to get out of the house are being made. Just believe in everything that make you continue your life in ignorance

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Most of you believe that the Nazi's truly aimed to kill innocent woman and children, and that the Nazi's were making the lives of the Jews bad on purpose. That is simply not true, but that is what the Jews make you believe, and those who try to explain to you the truth mostly fail. Therefor, Jews' lies and public relations services are better the the Nazi Public diplomacy.

I wont even respond to this...

 

[Fred]

I wont even respond to this...

Of course you won't.

 

[icemaη]

Yes, Israel wants peace

 

[Hængebøffer]

Fred must be trolling.

 

[Fred]

Fred must be trolling.

You specifically said it wasn't a numbers game. Therefore you of all people shouldn't have a problem with me comparing what Hitler did back then to what Israel is doing right now.

That being said, that wasn't the point of my post.

 

[Hængebøffer]

You specifically said it wasn't a numbers game. Therefore you of all people shouldn't have a problem with me comparing what Hitler did back then to what Israel is doing right now.

That being said, that wasn't the point of my post.

http://forum.juventuz.org/showpost.php?p=4614757

Let's us leave it here. Good people are acting like fanboys in this thread.

 

[BottomLine]

First of all, as I already told you a few pages back, I do live in Israel.
I also said that Israel does not truly want peace, so let me explain myself a little bit.
Of course that if there was a button that makes peace, Israel would press it. But the world doesn't work that way, and in order to get peace, Israel would have to make some compromises (really serious compromises), that they are not willing to make (and i do justify part of that decision). I'm sure you can understand that Israel can not give up the holy places in Jeruslam. There is also the refugees problem- Israel can not allow that 4 million Palestinians will get back to their lands, this will make the arabs a majority, this is madness. And of course there is the security concern that that video explained. So many reasons why it's simply mad to go back to 67' borders and give the Palestinians a country of their own in that area. I personally believe that both sides need to compromise, but so far the Palestinians have refused to. So, probably, it's not so important to them.

 

[Nzoric]

First of all, as I already told you a few pages back, I do live in Israel.
I also said that Israel does not truly want peace, so let me explain myself a little bit.
Of course that if there was a button that makes peace, Israel would press it. But the world doesn't work that way, and in order to get peace, Israel would have to make some compromises (really serious compromises), that they are not willing to make (and i do justify part of that decision). I'm sure you can understand that Israel can not give up the holy places in Jeruslam.There is also the refugees problem- Israel can not allow that 4 million Palestinians will get back to their lands, this will make the arabs a majority, this is madness. And of course there is the security concern that that video explained. So many reasons why it's simply mad to go back to 67' borders and give the Palestinians a country of their own in that area. I personally believe that both sides need to compromise, but so far the Palestinians have refused to. So, probably, it's not so important to them.

I love this instilled übermensch mentality . So, you can welcome back the refugee's that the Israeli military created in the first place - because then the people who should rightfully live there would become a majority? Yes, that's the way ethnical cleansing function, you do not welcome back the refugee's from your crimes.

 

[Trequartista]

The Israel - Nazi comparison is a valid one. The notion of a chosen people for fuck's sake, that's as racist as the Nazis' racial theories.

I've read some parts of the Talmud, one of the most racist and despicable book you can read. The fact that the Israeli elite bases its view of the world on the Talmud is very indicative.

The Jewish state is by definition an undemocratic and racist regime.
@Fred @Nzoric

 

[BottomLine]

I love this instilled übermensch mentality . So, you can welcome back the refugee's that the Israeli military created in the first place - because then the people who should rightfully live there would become a majority? Yes, that's the way ethnical cleansing function, you do not welcome back the refugee's from your crimes.

Let's not start discussing the issue of the reasons for the refugees' creation, because the Israelis claim that it's the Arab states' fault and the Arabs claim that it's Israel's fault. That is another discussion.
The bottom line is that for some reason the Palestinians refugees are the only refugees in this world that also the children and wives of the original refugees, considered refugees as well. If the definition for the Palestinians refugees was like of any other refugees community, there would have been now about half a million refugees, and than it would have been reasonable to allow them to get back to their lands.
But to allow 4 MILLION to come back? for the tiny Israel that is absolutely insane, simply a suicide. At the end of the day, Israel simply can not allow that, regardless of who created those refugees.

All i'm trying to say is that this situation is very complex, and Israel can't simply go back to the 67' borders.

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The Israel - Nazi comparison is a valid one. The notion of a chosen people for $#@!'s sake, that's as racist as the Nazis' racial theories.

The Jewish state is by definition an undemocratic and racist regime.

I completely agree that the orthodox Jew's opinion, that the Jews are superior to the Muslims is indeed similar to the Nazi agenda and i'm in no way supporting them.

 

[Trequartista]

I completely agree that the orthodox Jew's opinion, that the Jews are superior to the Muslims is indeed similar to the Nazi agenda and i'm in no way supporting them.

Good

 

[BottomLine]

Only some of them, I gotta say- while the bible does call the Jews "the chosen people", the bible does not say, in any way, shape or form that any other group of people has no right to live or that there should be social differences between Jews and non-Jews, and that is a HUGE difference from the Nazi agenda. There are those in the orthodox Jewish community (and unfortunately, few that are not religious claim the same) who claim that all the Muslims has to be slaughtered, and they are, in my eyes, similar to the Nazis.

 

[Trequartista]

Only some of them, I gotta say- while the bible does call the Jews "the chosen people", the bible does not say, in any way, shape or form that any other group of people has no right to live or that there should be social differences between Jews and non-Jews, and that is a HUGE difference from the Nazi agenda. There are those in the orthodox Jewish community (and unfortunately, few that are not religious claim the same) who claim that all the Muslims has to be slaughtered, and they are, in my eyes, similar to the Nazis.

The Bible doesn't but the Talmud surely does.

 

[Nzoric]

Let's not start discussing the issue of the reasons for the refugees' creation, because the Israelis claim that it's the Arab states' fault and the Arabs claim that it's Israel's fault. That is another discussion.
The bottom line is that for some reason the Palestinians refugees are the only refugees in this world that also the children and wives of the original refugees, considered refugees as well. If the definition for the Palestinians refugees was like of any other refugees community, there would have been now about half a million refugees, and than it would have been reasonable to allow them to get back to their lands.
But to allow 4 MILLION to come back? for the tiny Israel that is absolutely insane, simply a suicide. At the end of the day, Israel simply can not allow that, regardless of who created those refugees.

All i'm trying to say is that this situation is very complex, and Israel can't simply go back to the 67' borders.

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Yes they can. If it doesnt happen we will sit in 2050 talking about how Israel simply cant go back to the 2014 borders. Which is in Israels interest and is exactly the reason why they wont even stop building new settlements.

 

[Orgut]

First of all, as I already told you a few pages back, I do live in Israel..

Where do you live?

 

[Nzoric]

The land of milk and honey

 

[Fred]

The Israel - Nazi comparison is a valid one. The notion of a chosen people for fuck's sake, that's as racist as the Nazis' racial theories.

I've read some parts of the Talmud, one of the most racist and despicable book you can read. The fact that the Israeli elite bases its view of the world on the Talmud is very indicative.

The Jewish state is by definition an undemocratic and racist regime.
@Fred @Nzoric

The ideology is certainly comparable if not the magnitude of the atrocities.