Israeli-Palestinian conflict (29 Viewers)

[Seven]

but that's 'your' principle... there are worse things than death

I know, mate , that's why I put the word principle there too.

Perhaps there are worse things than death (not in my universe obviously, but I see what you mean), but is not having a certain piece of land really one of those things?

 

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[PhRoZeN]

I ask you seven and hoori.. if you were that bulldozer driver would you do the same? I already know the answer that you would move out the way, most did, as to what she did foolish or not yes you have a point. But what im asking is whether the man who drove the bulldozer should have done what he did? Where is the humanity and where is the likeness of that to a savage animal?

Protesting and activists isnt a new thing, but killing a protestor in cold blood certainly was an eye opener.

Aside.. human principles.. when so many lifes are taken. Lets take into account that many of these people have lost a lot. Their principles alone have been taken away, their lifes have been taken away. They cant protect their lifes as they are dealing with savages and tyrants. So they can only protect whatever principles they have.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

If you want to die or want your people to die, you can do so. I can't stop you. I happen to be of the opinion that life is more important than land.



I see where you're going, but do you really think it's a fair analogy? The American activist knew she might get killed, but far more importantly she must have seen the damn thing coming towards her. She could have stepped out of the way. You can't step out of the way when it comes to bullets.

However, no matter how illogical some acts of despair can be they somehow impact the geenral psyche, maybe because they come to represent all the insanity in a situation i.e think the tiananmen square incident.

Simply put audiences in general are far from seeing things in a calm logical manner hence the whole concept of propaganda. It is as much a war of ideas as it is of images.

 

[Seven]

I ask you seven and hoori.. if you were that bulldozer driver would you do the same? I already know the answer that you would move out the way, most did, as to what she did foolish or not yes you have a point. But what im asking is whether the man who drove the bulldozer should have done what he did? Where is the humanity and where is the likeness of that to a savage animal?

Protesting and activists isnt a new thing, but killing a protestor in cold blood certainly was an eye opener.

Aside.. human principles.. when so many lifes are taken. Lets take into account that many of these people have lost a lot. There principles alone have been taken away, there lifes have been taken away. They cant protect their lifes as they are dealing with savages and tyrants. So they can only protect whatever principles they have.

No. But I don't think that's up for debate is it? Everyone agrees it's wrong. But I don't see why she would let it happen, when it was so unnecessary.

They can protect their lives by moving away. But they don't want to do that. So they are making a choice. I'm not saying it's right that they have to make this choice, but they do choose.

 

[ReBeL]

I know, mate , that's why I put the word principle there too.

Perhaps there are worse things than death (not in my universe obviously, but I see what you mean), but is not having a certain piece of land really one of those things?

It is not about that mere piece of land. When you become suddenly a refugee in a camp without anything to do, nothing to wear, nothing to feed your kids, you will think of another way to make your living. When all the roads are closed, you have to treat the main root of all evils that took your house and made you live that life with so much humiliation.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I know, mate , that's why I put the word principle there too.

Perhaps there are worse things than death (not in my universe obviously, but I see what you mean), but is not having a certain piece of land really one of those things?

humiliation interchangeable with honor, death before dishonor(though this one will obviously need explaining).

 

[Seven]

However, no matter how illogical some acts of despair can be they somehow impact the geenral psyche, maybe because they come to represent all the insanity in a situation i.e think the tiananmen square incident.

Simply put audiences in general are far from seeing things in a calm logical manner hence the whole concept of propaganda. It is as much a war of ideas as it is of images.

That's true. But the Tiananmen image is a lot stronger because of the circumstances and because of the clear picture. I don't think this ever had the same potential. Of course they're both acting with pretty much the same idea and most likely they're not thinking of the propaganda value of the picture.

 

[ReBeL]

They can protect their lives by moving away. But they don't want to do that.

My people did this twice. In 1948, when the massacres were implemented by Zionists, people fled their houses and thought that there is some fairness in this world that could bring them back.

In 1967, when Israel occupied the rest of the Palestinian lands. People also fled their houses hoping your stupid UN would interfere for their return to their houses. This event happened on the 5th of June by the way.

Now, those who stayed in their houses and lands are being forced to leave day by day. Do you want them to leave knowing that they saw how their brothers and sisters were humiliated in other countries?

Do you think living on another country's land worth living? Well, I assure you it is so bad. And I hope you won't try it one day because it is so bitter.

 

[PhRoZeN]

No. But I don't think that's up for debate is it? Everyone agrees it's wrong. But I don't see why she would let it happen, when it was so unnecessary.

They can protect their lives by moving away. But they don't want to do that. So they are making a choice. I'm not saying it's right that they have to make this choice, but they do choose.

Ok thats answered my question

 

[Seven]

My people did this twice. In 1948, when the massacres were implemented by Zionists, people fled their houses and thought that there is some fairness in this world that could bring them back.

In 1967, when Israel occupied the rest of the Palestinian lands. People also fled their houses hoping your stupid UN would interfere for their return to their houses. This event happened on the 5th of June by the way.

Now, those who stayed in their houses and lands are being forced to leave day by day. Do you want them to leave knowing that they saw how their brothers and sisters were humiliated in other countries?

Do you think living on another country's land worth living? Well, I assure you it is so bad. And I hope you won't try it one day because it is so bitter.

You think Palestinians are humiliated in every single country on the planet?

I don't understand the part in bold. Do you mean that I couldn't live in another country than Belgium? Because I assure you I could. Of course I wouldn't like being forced to leave, but if they're killing me if I don't, why stay?

 

[ReBeL]

That's true. But the Tiananmen image is a lot stronger because of the circumstances and because of the clear picture. I don't think this ever had the same potential. Of course they're both acting with pretty much the same idea and most likely they're not thinking of the propaganda value of the picture.

No. it is not stronger. But because your media wants to enlarge the picture in Beijing because they want to show China as the big agressor in the world. It is your media agenda.

You were raised on seeing it bigger. Try to read the history of this region more and you will find that what happened in Beijing was just one day of horror.

In this region, days of horror are too many to be remembered.

 

[Zé Tahir]

 

[ReBeL]

You think Palestinians are humiliated in every single country on the planet?

I don't understand the part in bold. Do you mean that I couldn't live in another country than Belgium? Because I assure you I could. Of course I wouldn't like being forced to leave, but if they're killing me if I don't, why stay?

whatever.

 

[Seven]

No. it is not stronger. But because your media wants to enlarge the picture in Beijing because they want to show China as the big agressor in the world. It is your media agenda.

You were raised on seeing it bigger. Try to read the history of this region more and you will find that what happened in Beijing was just one day of horror.

In this region, days of horror are too many to be remembered.

ONE day of horror? Are you out of your fucking mind? You even know what it was about?

In part it's stronger because of your media agenda (with the communism and such), but it's also a better image. Clear picture, guy versus tank, it's strong. Like the kid throwing a stone at a tank (surely you remember that one?).

 

[Seven]

whatever.

I don't get it. It's land. If there are better conditions somewhere else, if there's democracy, if there are human rights, if there's water and food.. why would I not move?

 

[PhRoZeN]

He means the patriotic feeling. The feeling you want to go back to your home, you miss your home, home sickness, but you cant. Not only do you want to go? but your also concerned about the state of your family there the people, the living conditions etc. Any man with feelings would feel that they want to go home and help their fellow people help their nation, want their nation to be free from tyranny and even though you may be living in better conditions you cant help but sway your concern back home every hour or so the concern again for your loved ones. You got loved ones seven?

 

[Seven]

He means the patriotic feeling. The feeling you want to go back to your home, you miss your home, home sickness, but you cant. Not only do you want to go? but your also concerned about the state of your family there the people, the living conditions etc. Any man with feelings would feel that they want to go home and help their fellow people help their nation, want their nation to be free from tyranny.

I think we were theoretically speaking about everyone leaving. In case some people of your family stay, it's a different matter.

The patriotic feeling is manmade. You can make it again somewhere else.

 

[ReBeL]

??

 

[GordoDeCentral]

whatever.

the point being neither of you can relate to the other, his language is logic, a logic which excludes anything beyond the "real".

 

[PhRoZeN]

I think we were theoretically speaking about everyone leaving. In case some people of your family stay, it's a different matter.

The patriotic feeling is manmade. You can make it again somewhere else.

Of course borders are so man made right? Palestininians could very well come over to belgium and occupy it as their own land. Sounds good.