Israeli-Palestinian conflict (74 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

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Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
Operation Cast Ballot

The political calculation behind Olmert’s war


By Tom Streithorst



According to the Israeli media, four days before Gaza was attacked, Hamas offered to extend the ceasefire and end all rocket fire into southern Israel. In return, they asked for a lifting of the blockade choking Gaza and an extension of the ceasefire to the West Bank—reasonable enough demands. But the Israeli cabinet rejected the offer and decided to go to war.

Let us not forget who broke the ceasefire. Until Nov. 4, when the Israelis sent in commandos and killed six Palestinian militants near Khan Yunis, for the most part the ceasefire held. During the six-month truce, despite the Israeli stranglehold on Gaza’s borders, not one Israeli died or was wounded from rocket attacks.

After the Israeli incursion in early November, retaliatory rocket fire naturally ratcheted up, providing the provocation that led to the Israeli invasion. Since the beginning of the Israeli bombing, four Israeli civilians have been killed by rocket fire, four more than died during the previous six months. More rockets have been fired out of Gaza just about every day since the war began than during the entire six months of the truce. It seems that if the Israeli goal was to protect their citizens, they aren’t going about it very well.

I would suggest, from personal experience, that protecting the citizens of Sderot might not be the main motivation of the Israeli government.

In 2002, toward the end of the second Intifada, I was working in Jerusalem for an American television network. Essentially I was on suicide-bomb watch. Although we would do an occasional story on the 24-hour curfews randomly imposed on the West Bank or on Palestinian children killed while riding their bicycles in broad daylight in a middle-class neighborhood in Jenin, the reason our bosses in New York paid us to sit in Jerusalem was to cover suicide-bomb attacks on Israelis. Dead Palestinians rarely make news. Dead Israelis do.

For the first six weeks of my tour, tranquillity reigned within Israel. No suicide bombs anywhere. While being paid combat wages, I mostly lollygagged by the pool. A colleague told me, “It’s too quiet, Sharon is going to do something.” I thought he was paranoid, perhaps even anti-Semitic.

On Friday, July 19, 2002, we heard that Hamas was about to declare a truce. If a bunch of journalists knew about it, surely the Israeli government did, too. Although I was happy that peace was about to break out in the Holy Land, I was sorry that my sinecure was about to end. Without the threat of suicide attacks, my bosses would surely pull me out.

Over the weekend, the rumors coalesced. The truce was to be declared on Tuesday. But on Monday night, 12 hours before Hamas was to declare a unilateral ceasefire, the Israelis decided to bomb the center of Gaza City, targeting a Hamas leader. They killed him along with 14 civilians, nine of them children. To no one’s surprise, Hamas decided not to declare a truce. A week later, the first suicide bomb in months. The day after, the shocking attack on Hebrew University, which killed five students. The war was back on.

The Israeli government explained the air attack of June 22, 2002 by saying that they found a high-value target, Saleh Shahada, and had to take advantage of the actionable intelligence. At the time Shahada was sleeping in his home. He probably had slept there before. Was taking him out worth disrupting the proposed ceasefire? Kill one man, make a martyr of him, and someone else will inevitably replace him. It doesn’t seem logical if your goal is peace and tranquillity.

There is, of course, a cynical viewpoint, one shared by most journalists and just about all the Palestinians I talked to at the time: disrupting the proposed ceasefire was not a regrettable result but the very purpose of the attack. A truce without preconditions would make Hamas seem moderate and sensible and would not play well in Israeli propaganda. Better to goad them, even at the cost of increased hostility, even if it provoked retaliation, even if it meant more Israelis would die.

On Feb. 10, Israel holds elections. Before the invasion, the ruling Kadima Party was expected to lose. Since the invasion, their poll numbers have risen. Perhaps this, rather than the protection of Sderot from homemade rockets, better explains the slaughter in Gaza.
 

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Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,283
Just think... if something like THAT goes unnoticed by the population, something that was even in mainstream news, the boundaries must be limitless to what the government gets away with.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,283
Anyone else notice this barrage of Holocaust movies that have come out recently, including Valkyrie and this newer one during the Gaza attack? Munich also came out right before Lebanon was bombarded by Israel in 2006. Coincidence? :eyebrows:
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,283
Want proof that Israel committed another Holocaust? Well here you have it!


Israeli minister vows Palestinian 'holocaust'

By Tim Butcher in Jerusalem
Last Updated: 2:09AM GMT 01 Mar 2008

A senior Israeli politician provoked controversy today when he warned that Palestinians firing rockets from Gaza would be punished with a "bigger holocaust" from Israeli armed forces.

The use of the Hebrew word for holocaust, "shoah", tends to be used exclusively in Israel to describe the Nazi persecution of Jews.

Matan Vilnai, deputy defence minister, broke that taboo when he used the term "shoah" during interview on Army Radio.

"The more qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1580339/Israeli-minister-vows-Palestinian-'holocaust'.html
________________________

So to all the naysayers, shut up. It was a planned Holocaust.
 

CheSchifo!

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2009
642
Operation Cast Ballot

The political calculation behind Olmert’s war


By Tom Streithorst



According to the Israeli media, four days before Gaza was attacked, Hamas offered to extend the ceasefire and end all rocket fire into southern Israel. In return, they asked for a lifting of the blockade choking Gaza and an extension of the ceasefire to the West Bank—reasonable enough demands. But the Israeli cabinet rejected the offer and decided to go to war.

Let us not forget who broke the ceasefire. Until Nov. 4, when the Israelis sent in commandos and killed six Palestinian militants near Khan Yunis, for the most part the ceasefire held. During the six-month truce, despite the Israeli stranglehold on Gaza’s borders, not one Israeli died or was wounded from rocket attacks.

After the Israeli incursion in early November, retaliatory rocket fire naturally ratcheted up, providing the provocation that led to the Israeli invasion. Since the beginning of the Israeli bombing, four Israeli civilians have been killed by rocket fire, four more than died during the previous six months. More rockets have been fired out of Gaza just about every day since the war began than during the entire six months of the truce. It seems that if the Israeli goal was to protect their citizens, they aren’t going about it very well.

I would suggest, from personal experience, that protecting the citizens of Sderot might not be the main motivation of the Israeli government.

In 2002, toward the end of the second Intifada, I was working in Jerusalem for an American television network. Essentially I was on suicide-bomb watch. Although we would do an occasional story on the 24-hour curfews randomly imposed on the West Bank or on Palestinian children killed while riding their bicycles in broad daylight in a middle-class neighborhood in Jenin, the reason our bosses in New York paid us to sit in Jerusalem was to cover suicide-bomb attacks on Israelis. Dead Palestinians rarely make news. Dead Israelis do.

For the first six weeks of my tour, tranquillity reigned within Israel. No suicide bombs anywhere. While being paid combat wages, I mostly lollygagged by the pool. A colleague told me, “It’s too quiet, Sharon is going to do something.” I thought he was paranoid, perhaps even anti-Semitic.

On Friday, July 19, 2002, we heard that Hamas was about to declare a truce. If a bunch of journalists knew about it, surely the Israeli government did, too. Although I was happy that peace was about to break out in the Holy Land, I was sorry that my sinecure was about to end. Without the threat of suicide attacks, my bosses would surely pull me out.

Over the weekend, the rumors coalesced. The truce was to be declared on Tuesday. But on Monday night, 12 hours before Hamas was to declare a unilateral ceasefire, the Israelis decided to bomb the center of Gaza City, targeting a Hamas leader. They killed him along with 14 civilians, nine of them children. To no one’s surprise, Hamas decided not to declare a truce. A week later, the first suicide bomb in months. The day after, the shocking attack on Hebrew University, which killed five students. The war was back on.

The Israeli government explained the air attack of June 22, 2002 by saying that they found a high-value target, Saleh Shahada, and had to take advantage of the actionable intelligence. At the time Shahada was sleeping in his home. He probably had slept there before. Was taking him out worth disrupting the proposed ceasefire? Kill one man, make a martyr of him, and someone else will inevitably replace him. It doesn’t seem logical if your goal is peace and tranquillity.

There is, of course, a cynical viewpoint, one shared by most journalists and just about all the Palestinians I talked to at the time: disrupting the proposed ceasefire was not a regrettable result but the very purpose of the attack. A truce without preconditions would make Hamas seem moderate and sensible and would not play well in Israeli propaganda. Better to goad them, even at the cost of increased hostility, even if it provoked retaliation, even if it meant more Israelis would die.

On Feb. 10, Israel holds elections. Before the invasion, the ruling Kadima Party was expected to lose. Since the invasion, their poll numbers have risen. Perhaps this, rather than the protection of Sderot from homemade rockets, better explains the slaughter in Gaza.
That was well known before they even started the attack. It's one of the reasons it was so disgusting.
 
OP

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #3,479
    Israel rules out opening Gaza border if Hamas gains


    TEL AVIV (Reuters) – Israel has all but ruled out fully reopening border crossings with the Gaza Strip as long as Hamas rules the enclave or stands to benefit from easing of the restrictions, a top adviser to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said.

    Hamas has made a shaky ceasefire, which ended Israel's 22-day offensive in the Gaza Strip on Sunday, conditional on Israel lifting its blockade, which, the adviser made clear, would not happen anytime soon.

    The Islamist group, which won a 2006 Palestinian election and seized control of the Gaza Strip 18 months later after routing President Mahmoud Abbas's security forces, has been shunned by major Western powers for refusing to recognize Israel and renounce violence.

    Speaking a day after Olmert spoke by telephone to U.S. President Barack Obama, the adviser expressed confidence the new administration in Washington would maintain George W. Bush's policy of refusing to deal with or talk to Hamas.

    The adviser spoke to a small group of reporters at Israel's military headquarters in Tel Aviv, on condition of anonymity.

    The adviser said Israel would allow the "maximum" flow of food, medicine, oil and gas to the Gaza Strip to help its 1.5 million residents recover from the offensive, which killed more than 1,300 Palestinians, but a wider range of goods, including steel and cement needed for rebuilding, would have to wait.

    Israel believes the restrictions will give it leverage to pressure Hamas to free Gilad Shalit, a captured Israeli soldier. Diplomats and aid agencies say the restrictions will doom Gaza's reconstruction, estimated to cost at least $2 billion.

    Olmert's adviser said Israel's underlying goal was to deny Hamas control over border crossings that could help it cement its hold on power. "If opening the passages will strengthen Hamas, we won't do it," he said.

    European powers have called on Israel to reopen the border crossings fully.

    The adviser said he doubted Hamas would agree to let Abbas's security forces, backed by international observers, return to the border crossings, as Israel and Egypt have proposed.

    He said Abbas's forces did "something remarkable" in the West Bank by "containing riots and demonstrations" during the war in Gaza but added that they were not ready for Gaza.

    "It's a limited force. And in order to take it to Gaza, I think they need first more training, more forces, and this is something that takes time."

    Even if Hamas agreed to let Abbas's Palestinian Authority run the crossings, Israel believes Hamas would maintain control behind the scenes and take over "within days," he said.

    "It's all nice, as an idea. But at the end of the day, if the PA (Palestinian Authority) will not go back to control Gaza, the issue of passages will be controlled by Hamas, no matter how, in what disguise you'll give it," the adviser said.

    "This will cement the ability of Hamas to rule, and to rule the passages," he added.

    Western diplomats and Palestinian officials complained that Israel was already throwing up obstacles to Gaza's recovery.

    This week, Israel told the United Nations and other aid groups planning for the rebuilding that they must apply for project-by-project Israeli approval and provide guarantees none of the work will benefit Hamas
    .

    Israel has also prevented Abbas's government in the occupied West Bank from transferring cash to the Gaza Strip to pay Palestinian Authority workers and others in need of assistance.

    Olmert's adviser denied preventing cash shipments but acknowledged the "big dilemma" facing Israel on reconstruction.

    "The main focus now is how to allow all the needed goods, and I don't think that cement or metal is the needed goods now for the population," the adviser said, referring to materials Israel fears Hamas will use to make more weapons and bunkers.

    The adviser said the goal was a mechanism that would ensure that credit for reconstruction does not accrue to the Iran-backed Hamas, which announced on Thursday that it would distribute up to 4,000 euros ($5,180) in cash to families hard hit by Israel's offensive.

    One potential disadvantage of funneling international reconstruction aid through the Palestinian Authority was that Hamas would be spared the financial burden of rebuilding, he added. Hamas could then use its resources to rebuild its military capabilities.

    Reuters
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #3,480
    European Union today removed Mujahedi Khalq, the Irani opposition organization, from the terrorist organizations list. This organization was listed there originally because it was supported by Saddam Hussein against Iran. Now, after Saddam Hussein went, they removed the terror alert to make pressure on the elected government in Iran.

    How hypocrite this union can be!!!.
     

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