Israeli-Palestinian conflict (65 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

We're discussing things on another level here, Reb.

I see terrorism as a means. I think that even freedom fighters can be guilty
of terrorism. Even freedom fighters can do wrong.

But what's the point of this, Andries?

The world superpower, my country, has been disastrously wrong throughout history, so what does it matter if Hamas shoots some rockets into Israel?

All of this stuff is simply nitpicking when in reality there are larger issues at hand.

 

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[ReBeL]

I think that even freedom fighters can be guilty
of terrorism.

That is beyond my ability to continue, so I'll stop here.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Agreed but give us a reason what Hamas has done that's so wrong Seven

Come on, shooting rockets isn't that great, now is it? Not even if you have noble ideas.

But what's the point of this, Andries?

The world superpower, my country, has been disastrously wrong throughout history, so what does it matter if Hamas shoots some rockets into Israel?

All of this stuff is simply nitpicking when in reality there are larger issues at hand.

It's a question in the poll, Andy. I personally think it's irrelevant what you call Hamas. What's important is that Hamas in the current state and Israel in the current state are two things which cannot coexist.

That is beyond my ability to continue, so I'll stop here.

IRA.

Think about it.

 

[Eddy]

That is beyond my ability to continue, so I'll stop here.

He's correct ReBeL, but to be honest, every freedom fighter along the path comes across a situation where the "best" situation requires "extensive tactics". History has shown us this.

 

[CheSchifo!]

He's correct ReBeL, but to be honest, every freedom fighter along the path comes across a situation where the "best" situation requires "extensive tactics". History has shown us this.

Yeah, but in this case you have to wonder if it really does get you anywhere. One could even argue it has adverse effects.

But what Israel doesn't understand (or did not understand as I see there are quite a lot of Israeli journalists changing their minds) is that the only way to take away terrorism is to create a better situation. War will never be the solution to terrorism.

 

[Eddy]

Come on, shooting rockets isn't that great, now is it? Not even if you have noble ideas.

Not if your occupied. Noble ideas hasn't worked for Israel, there too stupid for it.

 

[ReBeL]

But what's the point of this, Andries?

The world superpower, my country, has been disastrously wrong throughout history, so what does it matter if Hamas shoots some rockets into Israel?

All of this stuff is simply nitpicking when in reality there are larger issues at hand.

The thing that Andries doesn't know is that more than 60% of Palestinians are from the region where Israel is now. And most of Hamas leaders are from there. For example, Said Syam who was killed yesterday is from Asqalan city which was occupied by Israelis in 1948 and evacuated from its people and called Ashkelon. And for the coincidence, it is the most hitted-by-rockets city right now. So, what I want to say is that Hamas militants have the right to use whatever they want to make those who forced them to leave their houses to run away to Europe because they are from there and Europe should take its disease back, not throw it on others then coming to us pretending to that they respect human rights.

 

[CheSchifo!]

The thing that Andries doesn't know is that more than 60% of Palestinians are from the region where Israel is now. And most of Hamas leaders are from there. For example, Said Syam who was killed yesterday is from Asqalan city which was occupied by Israelis in 1948 and evacuated from its people and called Ashkelon. And for the coincidence, it is the most hitted-by-rockets city right now. So, what I want to say is that Hamas militants have the right to use whatever they want to make those who forced them to leave their houses to run away to Europe because they are from there and Europe should take its disease back, not throw it on others then coming to us pretending to that they respect human rights.

I do, but I already gave various arguments about that in this very thread. And like I've said before, why stop in 1948, why not stop in 2005?

 

[Bjerknes]

It's a question in the poll, Andy. I personally think it's irrelevant what you call Hamas. What's important is that Hamas in the current state and Israel in the current state are two things which cannot coexist.

It's an idiotic question that lacks understanding. Whomever created that question lacks an understanding of Hamas itself.

The use of the word "terrorist organization" should be banned from this discussion, full stop. It's a stupid, meaningless term that is frankly a cop out to what is actually going on.

And yes, Hamas and Israel cannot coexist, so they will destroy each other until new factions are born.

 

[ReBeL]

IRA.

Think about it.

Well, if you ask me, IRA were freedom fighters too. They were occupied and had no other choices against big-headed people like English terrorists.

 

[CheSchifo!]

ReBeL: let's drop it. We're looking at the word "terrorism" from different perspectives. It's semantics, more than it's an actual discussion. You have two conditions for someone to qualify as a terrorist: he uses terror as a means to get to his goal and that goal is wrong. I think everyone who uses terror is a terrorist, no matter how noble the goal might be.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Well, if you ask me, IRA were freedom fighters too. They were occupied and had no other choices against big-headed people like English terrorists.

Exactly. Freedom fighters and terrorists at the same time.

 

[ReBeL]

ReBeL: let's drop it. We're looking at the word "terrorism" from different perspectives. It's semantics, more than it's an actual discussion. You have two conditions for someone to qualify as a terrorist: he uses terror as a means to get to his goal and that goal is wrong. I think everyone who uses terror is a terrorist, no matter how noble the goal might be.

Ok. I'll stop here.

 

[Bjerknes]

Exactly. Freedom fighters and terrorists at the same time.

You say lets drop it and then you claim that. Very sly of you.

You're starting to sound like Dick Cheney now!

 

[CheSchifo!]

You say lets drop it and then you claim that. Very sly of you.

You're starting to sound like Dick Cheney now!

True. But that's not what I intended to do. In fact I simply wanted to point out that according to my definition you can be the two. In ReBeL's definition you can't.

Goes to show how a word can sometimes outgrow itself.

 

[Bjerknes]

True. But that's not what I intended to do. In fact I simply wanted to point out that according to my definition you can be the two. In ReBeL's definition you can't.

Goes to show how a word can sometimes outgrow itself.

Words are what people make of them.

 

[Alen]

I do, but I already gave various arguments about that in this very thread. And like I've said before, why stop in 1948, why not stop in 2005?

Yeah, thanks for reminding me about this. I wanted to ask Andy about it because he's more neutral than Reb for obvious reasons.

What Rebel wants now is to be given his land back. The land where his grandfather lived until 1967. A guy named Asher, who is Andy's age, and who is a Jew, was born on that very same land, grew up there and never left it in 23-24 years. That's the land his grandfather stole from Rebel's grandfather. Asher's grandfather is dead since 1984 and Asher never met him. Rebel's grandfather is also dead.

Now Andy, should Asher give this land back to Rebel?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Yeah, thanks for reminding me about this. I wanted to ask Andy about it because he's more neutral than Reb for obvious reasons.

What Rebel wants now is to be given his land back. The land where his grandfather lived until 1967. A guy named Asher, who is Andy's age, and who is a Jew, was born on that very same land, grew up there and never left it in 23-24 years. That's the land his grandfather stole from Rebel's grandfather. Asher's grandfather is dead since 1984 and Asher never met him. Rebel's grandfather is also dead.

Now Andy, should Asher give this land back to Rebel?

yes because that's something the whole entire world except the us and israel have agreed and decreed. Moreover it has nothing to do with reb's grandfather or some israeli kid and their entitlement to residency, the conflict is not about land it's about concepts some people here can never grasp; about the honorable the sacred and above all the Just. And regardless how long it will take those 3 will be recovered.

 

[Ahmed]

yes because that's something the whole entire world except the us and israel have agreed and decreed. Moreover it has nothing to do with reb's grandfather or some israeli kid and their entitlement to residency, the conflict is not about land it's about concepts some people here can never grasp; about the honorable the sacred and above all the Just. And regardless how long it will take those 3 will be recovered.

+rep

 

[Bjerknes]

Yeah, thanks for reminding me about this. I wanted to ask Andy about it because he's more neutral than Reb for obvious reasons.

What Rebel wants now is to be given his land back. The land where his grandfather lived until 1967. A guy named Asher, who is Andy's age, and who is a Jew, was born on that very same land, grew up there and never left it in 23-24 years. That's the land his grandfather stole from Rebel's grandfather. Asher's grandfather is dead since 1984 and Asher never met him. Rebel's grandfather is also dead.

Now Andy, should Asher give this land back to Rebel?

Yes, immediately and without any response.

Even Mr. Burke who claims he is a Zionist voted that Israel should not be where it lays.