Israeli-Palestinian conflict (31 Viewers)

[GordoDeCentral]

Why does the Bible come into this discussion ? The Bible clearly states the Jews should wander until the end times so that has no bearing on it. We’re both speaking of the same kingdom and like you said he kingdom of Judea was an Israeli kingdom hence why they extend it to today’s Israel so I don’t see where I was inaccurate?

There's no kingdom of israel historically, it's all Bible talk. Also we both know the bible is the only reason jews from all over the world went to palestine in the first place and now choose Jerusalem as their capital despite the negative consequences of this move.

 

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[AndreaCristiano]

There's no kingdom of israel historically, it's all Bible talk. Also we both know the bible is the only reason jews from all over the world went to palestine in the first place and now choose Jerusalem as their capital despite the negative consequences of this move.

Well that is inaccurate. The tanakh and the whole or the Torah states clearly that the Jews shall wonder until the second coming of messiah. The kingdom or Judah/ Israelites/ Israel is the same.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Miko Peled.

His grandfather was Avraham Katsnelson, one of the signatories to Israel's of Declaration of Independence.

He is the son of the famous general Mattityahu Peled, who fought in the 1948 war to establish Israel and served as a General in the 1967 war.

Here's what he had to say about Israel and their policy in Palestine.

“Israel has been on a mission to destroy the Palestinian people for over six decades,” Peled has said. “Why would anyone not give solidarity to the Palestinian people?”
“every single Israeli city is a settlement” and that “expressing solidarity with Palestinians is the most important thing people can do.”

This man has no reason to side with the Palestinians, be it economical (to the contrary), safety (to the contrary), media or societal pressure (to the contrary) - in fact, he has nothing to gain and everything to lose by taking the stances he takes against Israel (he's a Jew, the son of major Zionist figures).

The only reason he says the things he says are on the ethical and moral grounds. Read or watch some of his work if you want to hear some truth about Palestine if you think every Palestinian (be they Muslim or Christian) is a biased liar, or if you think everyone anti-Israel is a crazed lefty or a terrorist.

Hear it straight from the horses mouth and don't fall for Israeli hasbara.

There's no Israeli hasbara, there's reality on the ground, in any other time all the arabs would have been killed or driven out by now, that's how things work in invasions, what do you think happened in the reconquista

 

[Linebreak]

Thank you for the information.

I was mostly using it to illustrate the settlement issue, though it could've been done better.

The maps are fairly accurate, don't fall for Israeli hasbara gibberish which rewrites and revises everything to their advantage.

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There's no Israeli hasbara, there's reality on the ground, in any other time all the arabs would have been killed or driven out by now, that's how things work in invasions, what do you think happened in the reconquista

The reality on the ground is that the Israelis are eating up Palestinian land on a daily basis. Many Israeli politicians regularly call for all Palestinians to shift to other Arab countries.

There is plenty of Israeli hasbara coming from the likes of Tomice here.

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If anyone thinks that Israel is some democratic country living amongst crazed Arabs, just look at how they treat Black Jews


With that in mind, imagine how they treat any type of non-Jew. Just look up the story of Rachel Corrie.

It's amusing how modern liberal democratic secular folk love to love Israel, a nation based on a biblical prophecy which puts Jews as God's special chosen people above everyone else, yet pretends to be some model of democracy and peace in the Middle East. Good laugh.

 

[lgorTudor]

a nation based on a biblical prophecy which puts Jews as God's special chosen people above everyone else, yet pretends to be some model of democracy and peace in the Middle East. Good laugh.

Partition plan gave both sides a national territory to found a country. Based in international law and everything. Problem only that the Arabs/Palis were too greedy and stupid to declare a war and also lose it. Three times in a row. The subsequent enlargement of territory is, to a certain extent, even covered by international law (if only they'd annexed Golan tbh). The major "religious" conflict is based around Jerusalem and the settlements, where a) the borders of three religions conflict (muh UN declaration denouncing the Jewish claim lmao) and b) where religious nutjobs capitalise upon an increasingly right-wing attitude in Israel (keep in mind the country was founded by Social Democrats/Socialist mainly). Beyond that, there has always been a cultural/spiritual aspect of Israel linked with Judaism in general (remember the Paratroops singing 'Yerushalayim Shel Zahav' when moving to and fighting in Jerusalem 1967), but only a certain smaller aspect of the countries legitimization is based in religion.


Having to babysit the intellectually dishonest donkeys on tuz all the time

 

[Tomice]

Partition plan gave both sides a national territory to found a country. Based in international law and everything. Problem only that the Arabs/Palis were too greedy and stupid to declare a war and also lose it. Three times in a row. The subsequent enlargement of territory is, to a certain extent, even covered by international law (if only they'd annexed Golan tbh). The major "religious" conflict is based around Jerusalem and the settlements, where a) the borders of three religions conflict (muh UN declaration denouncing the Jewish claim lmao) and b) where religious nutjobs capitalise upon an increasingly right-wing attitude in Israel (keep in mind the country was founded by Social Democrats/Socialist mainly). Beyond that, there has always been a cultural/spiritual aspect of Israel linked with Judaism in general (remember the Paratroops singing 'Yerushalayim Shel Zahav' when moving to and fighting in Jerusalem 1967), but only a certain smaller aspect of the countries legitimization is based in religion.


Having to babysit the intellectually dishonest donkeys on tuz all the time

pretty much

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If anyone thinks that Israel is some democratic country living amongst crazed Arabs, just look at how they treat Black Jews

You talk about propaganda and hasbara and bring up that video?

from al jazira no less You are lost already

 

[Linebreak]

Partition plan gave both sides a national territory to found a country. Based in international law and everything. Problem only that the Arabs/Palis were too greedy and stupid to declare a war and also lose it. Three times in a row. The subsequent enlargement of territory is, to a certain extent, even covered by international law (if only they'd annexed Golan tbh). The major "religious" conflict is based around Jerusalem and the settlements, where a) the borders of three religions conflict (muh UN declaration denouncing the Jewish claim lmao) and b) where religious nutjobs capitalise upon an increasingly right-wing attitude in Israel (keep in mind the country was founded by Social Democrats/Socialist mainly). Beyond that, there has always been a cultural/spiritual aspect of Israel linked with Judaism in general (remember the Paratroops singing 'Yerushalayim Shel Zahav' when moving to and fighting in Jerusalem 1967), but only a certain smaller aspect of the countries legitimization is based in religion.


Having to babysit the intellectually dishonest donkeys on tuz all the time

The only greedy ones were those Europeans who wiped out entire regions to establish their country. What did you expect those Palestinians who have been living in their cities, towns and villages for centuries to just up and disappear?

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pretty much

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You talk about propaganda and hasbara and bring up that video?

from al jazira You are lost already

Listen to the black jews then talk.

If you can't handle AJ, then listen to the works of Miko Peled.

 

[Tomice]

The maps are fairly accurate, don't fall for Israeli hasbara gibberish which rewrites and revises everything to their advantage.

Be honest, did you even once check for facts in anything you have disputed or claimed here? I really hope you just didn't

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Nvm, don't answer that

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Listen to the black jews then talk.

I've seen that video about 2-3 times already, wait you thought it's the first time I saw it?

If you can't handle AJ, then listen to the works of Miko Peled.

So from an AJ piece to a BDS member works? :lol;


Miko peled has more holes in his theories then you do in your posts

 

[Linebreak]

B



So from an AJ piece to a BDS member works? :lol;

Miko peled has more holes in his theories then you do in your posts

Israel has infinite holes for its future viability.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

The maps are fairly accurate, don't fall for Israeli hasbara gibberish which rewrites and revises everything to their advantage.

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The reality on the ground is that the Israelis are eating up Palestinian land on a daily basis. Many Israeli politicians regularly call for all Palestinians to shift to other Arab countries.

There is plenty of Israeli hasbara coming from the likes of Tomice here.

- - - Updated - - -

If anyone thinks that Israel is some democratic country living amongst crazed Arabs, just look at how they treat Black Jews


With that in mind, imagine how they treat any type of non-Jew. Just look up the story of Rachel Corrie.

It's amusing how modern liberal democratic secular folk love to love Israel, a nation based on a biblical prophecy which puts Jews as God's special chosen people above everyone else, yet pretends to be some model of democracy and peace in the Middle East. Good laugh.

Accurate or not, the point of Israeli encroachment on land that they shouldn't be is true either way. I just fail to understand how people seem to try to dismiss that being pushed out of your home and land would make you respond with greater violence.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Wrong, romans in bc era were original inhabitants of rome, later any free person within their empire was a roman, there never was an italy as a nation in the history of humanity before Garibaldi

Indeed.

Peninsular Italy (besides the northern part which was Cisalpine Gaul) was known as Italia in Roman times though. But yeah it clearly wasn’t a nation-state, more of a geographic title.

EDIT: Wikipedia tells me this

Italia" was the name of the Italian Peninsula during the Roman era. It was not a province, but the territory of the city of Rome, thus having a special status.[1] Italy and its borders expanded over time, until Augustus finally organized it as an administrative division consisting of eleven regions (from the Alps to the Ionian Sea). The islands of Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily and Malta were added to Italy by Diocletian in 292 AD. Roman Italy remained united until the sixth century, when it was divided between the Byzantine Empire and territories of the Germanic peoples. After that, Italy remained divided until 1861, when it was reunited in the modern Kingdom of Italy.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Indeed.

Peninsular Italy (besides the northern part which was Cisalpine Gaul) was known as Italia in Roman times though. But yeah it clearly wasn’t a nation-state, more of a geographic title.

Rome was a nation that’s my point

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Indeed.

Peninsular Italy (besides the northern part which was Cisalpine Gaul) was known as Italia in Roman times though. But yeah it clearly wasn’t a nation-state, more of a geographic title.

EDIT: Wikipedia tells me this

Exactly like palestine, but there never was an italian state, even at the time of augustus, well before he became Augustus, cicero was seen as half a roman because he wasn't born in rome. My statement stands there never was an italian state until the 19th century, just like palestine.

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Rome was a nation that’s my point

For the nth time Rome is not italy.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Exactly like palestine, but there never was an italian state, even at the time of augustus, well before he became Augustus, cicero was seen as half a roman because he wasn't born in rome. My statement stands there never was an italian state until the 19th century, just like palestine.

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For the nth time Rome is not italy.

Yet Italy sprouted from Rome. Palestine was the name of lands not a kingdom or government that spawned anything.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Yet Italy sprouted from Rome. Palestine was the name of lands not a kingdom or government that spawned anything.

All of Europe spawned out of Rome, just like the omayad/abbassid empires are the origins what it is now the arab world. The reason italy is what it is now is more because of circumstances than some ancient historical pedigree. That's why you see napolitans and sicilians not identify with the rest.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

All of Europe spawned out of Rome, just like the omayad/abbassid empires are the origins what it is now the arab world. The reason italy is what it is now is more because of circumstances than some ancient historical pedigree. That's why you see napolitans and sicilians not identify with the rest.

Well this I agree with especially the last sentence

 

[BayernFan]

Partition plan gave both sides a national territory to found a country. Based in international law and everything. Problem only that the Arabs/Palis were too greedy and stupid to declare a war and also lose it. Three times in a row. The subsequent enlargement of territory is, to a certain extent, even covered by international law (if only they'd annexed Golan tbh). The major "religious" conflict is based around Jerusalem and the settlements, where a) the borders of three religions conflict (muh UN declaration denouncing the Jewish claim lmao) and b) where religious nutjobs capitalise upon an increasingly right-wing attitude in Israel (keep in mind the country was founded by Social Democrats/Socialist mainly). Beyond that, there has always been a cultural/spiritual aspect of Israel linked with Judaism in general (remember the Paratroops singing 'Yerushalayim Shel Zahav' when moving to and fighting in Jerusalem 1967), but only a certain smaller aspect of the countries legitimization is based in religion.


Having to babysit the intellectually dishonest donkeys on tuz all the time

 

[-=DJANGO=-]

The reality is that they will continue lose land...

Look who joined , missed your rants bud

Who is ranting? Me, I am just amazed there is opposition to the peaceful proposition of Israel? Why wouldn't people want to understand Iran is dangerous and must be bombed? smh

On the other hand I think Israel must take on another nuclear power to prove how brave and powerful they are. For example France, UK or Germany... Then Bibi can move permanently to Russia and save on traveling expenses too! It's three birds with one stone policy any way I look at it!

 

[Tomice]

There's no kingdom of israel historically, it's all Bible talk. Also we both know the bible is the only reason jews from all over the world went to palestine in the first place and now choose Jerusalem as their capital despite the negative consequences of this move.

I don't think those are fair statements.

First of all there was a kingdom of Israel, at least two actually and kingdom of Judea, albeit it was independent for a short period relatively. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the bible, those are historical facts supported by many archaeological findings and recorded history of the romans, assyrians etc.

Secondly, the major reason for jewish immigration to Israel is 2000 years of anti-semitism,persecution,progroms and finally the holocaust. Just looking at the number of immigrants before and after proves this beyond a shadow of doubt. True there was a small zionist movement before but the holocaust was surely the catalizator and the legetimazing factor which without it success of the zionist movement is anything but certain.

we also didn't "now choose" Jerusalem out of spite. It was our capital since day one in 48.

All of this is not to say that Israel legitimacy stems from any of those facts,it doesn't. It's legitimacy comes from it being given by the rightful owner of the land and it's independence being recognized by the UN and more importantly then those, it exist and has a right to under international law.

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Who is ranting? Me, I am just amazed there is opposition to the peaceful proposition of Israel? Why wouldn't people want to understand Iran is dangerous and must be bombed? smh

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/Iranian-View-of-Israel/387085/

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jerusalemc...aders-m-hys5?utm_term=.gcB1zZEpqV#.jsP2ZjmLrX

Took me under a min. show me a single quote from Israel threatening Iran which is not a direct response to any of the above

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Damn yo, homie just pulled out buzzfeed.