How is it not?
I think I'll trust an actual law professor instead. No offense to you, Andries.
I think I'll trust an actual law professor instead. No offense to you, Andries.
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Israeli-Palestinian conflict (74 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
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FFS
Here you go,
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html
Jesus Christ, it's not that hard, dude.
Here you go,
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html
Jesus Christ, it's not that hard, dude.
It doesn't exist in the treaty, but there are agreements as to how it should be interpreted. Andy for example thinks that killing a citizen, who has no right entering your country, is an act of war. It isn't.
The problem here is the legal classification of the vessel. Either it was operating under military supervision, in which case it would be very questionable behaviour from Turkey, or it was an action organised by civilians.
The problem here is the legal classification of the vessel. Either it was operating under military supervision, in which case it would be very questionable behaviour from Turkey, or it was an action organised by civilians.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who cut his trip to Chile short after Israel's attack on a Turkish-led humanitarian aid flotilla on Monday, said in an address to his party's parliamentary group on Tuesday that Israel should not test Turkey's diplomatic patience and that Turkey would do everything in its diplomatic power to give the deserved response.
He said Turkey would act together with the international community to give the deserved response to Israel using all possibilities offered by international law and diplomacy.
“This bloody massacre by Israel on ships that were taking humanitarian aid to Gaza deserves every kind of condemnation,” he said, demanding that Israel immediately halt its “inhumane” blockade of Gaza. The flotilla was the ninth attempt by sea to breach the three-year blockade Israel and Egypt imposed after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip in 2007, home to 1.5 million Palestinians. Israel allowed five seaborne aid shipments to get through but snapped the blockade shut after its 2009 war in Gaza.
“They have once again showed to the world that they know how good they are at killing people,” Erdoğan said. “Israel can in no way legitimize this murder; it cannot wash its hands of this blood.” He said the incident was no longer a problem between two countries but a problem of the entire world.
Erdoğan sharply criticized Israel for the “bloody massacre” that killed at least nine people on a Gaza-bound aid vessel and warned Tuesday that no one should test Turkey’s diplomatic patience. He said it was unacceptable to equate unarmed civilians with terrorists and warned Israel that Turkey was not a country they would like to be enemies with. “Turkey will not let this go,” he said, adding, “Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable.”
“Unfortunately, what happened yesterday was a dark stain on the history of humanity. Staging an armed attack on aid ships, killing innocent people and treating civilians as if they were terrorists are nothing but a degradation of humanity and vile recklessness. Even warfare has its rules. Even in warfare, no one can attack children, women, the elderly, civilians, religious officials and aid workers. Even despots, bandits and pirates have a certain sense of sensitivity. They abide by some moral principles,” he said.
“But Israel has almost challenged the whole world by raiding ships carrying volunteers from 32 different nations. This insolent, irresponsible, reckless and unfair attack by the Israeli government, which trampled on every kind of human value, must be punished by all means,” he said.
Attack staged against UN values
Erdoğan said: “The ships declared their cargo and their intention to the whole world before setting sail for Gaza. Sixty journalists from Turkey and other countries were also on board the ships to witness the campaign. It is evident that this attack on 600 people and six ships carrying aid to poor Palestinian people who were left destitute was one staged against the basic philosophy of the United Nations. The ships were laden with aid supplies and they were strictly controlled under international shipping rules. They were carrying volunteers. But they were subjected to such an armed attack,” he said.
“Following the terrorist attack on the naval base and the illegal attack on aid ships by Israeli forces, I cut short my visit to Chile and returned to Turkey. Our government has been following the developments closely from the very beginning. Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç held an extraordinary meeting with relevant ministers and other officials. Our foreign minister and national defense minister held telephone conversations with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak to convey Turkey’s reaction and uneasiness,” he said.
Erdoğan said: “Turkey has been using all means of international law and diplomacy and will continue to do so in the days ahead. To this end, we recalled our ambassador in Tel Aviv. Three joint military exercises scheduled with Israel were cancelled. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu went to New York and called the UN Security Council to hold an extraordinary meeting. As a result, the UN Security Council issued a statement condemning Israel and called for the immediate release of civilians and injured passengers. Matches to be played between Turkish and Israeli soccer teams were cancelled. The NATO Council will convene later today and the Organization of the Islamic Conference [OIC] will meet on Monday.”
“We rejected Israel’s offer to send us the injured passengers. We have the will and power to bring our own injured people back. Two military ambulances left to bring back the injured passengers. Civilian planes of the Ministry of Health are about to arrive there,” he said.
Erdoğan also said that “Israel must inform the world public opinion correctly. It should not refrain from international cooperation. Israel should acknowledge the importance of the situation and correct its mistake.”
The prime minister said Turkey would continue to support the Palestinian people. “We will not turn our back on Palestine, the Palestinians and Gaza,” he said. “No one should test Turkey’s patience,” he added. “Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable.” Erdoğan said Israel had turned into a nation that creates instability in its region and called on the international community to intervene. “There is an administrative mentality here that has adopted violence as its policy and that deems displaying acts of cruelty as legitimate. The illegal acts of the Israeli administration can no longer be covered up or ignored. It is time for the international community to say 'enough already’.”
Erdoğan also said Turkey has always stood against anti-Semitism and offered protection to the Jewish people when they were victims of violence and persecution. He said it was now the Israelis’ turn to do the same. He said the Israeli government, in lying, using deception, engaging in bloodshed and massacring the innocent, was damaging the people of Israel most. He also thanked the Turkish-Jewish community for its stance regarding Israel’s attacks. Erdoğan urged Israelis to question the actions of their government. “It is damaging your country’s image by conducting banditry and piracy,” he said. “It is damaging the interests of Israel and your peace and safety. It is the Israeli people who must stop the Israeli government in the first place,” he added.
Erdoğan said Israel cannot face the international community without expressing “regret.” “Israel cannot ensure its security by drawing the hatred of the entire world,” the prime minister declared.
Erdoğan said an aggressive country conducting state terrorism with no remorse could no longer face the international community. He said Israel attacking a civilian ship in international waters was a crime, but killing innocent people was state terrorism. “We are sick of your lies. Be honest,” he said, calling on Israel and demanding the return of the six seized ships.
He said Turkey would act together with the international community to give the deserved response to Israel using all possibilities offered by international law and diplomacy.
“This bloody massacre by Israel on ships that were taking humanitarian aid to Gaza deserves every kind of condemnation,” he said, demanding that Israel immediately halt its “inhumane” blockade of Gaza. The flotilla was the ninth attempt by sea to breach the three-year blockade Israel and Egypt imposed after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip in 2007, home to 1.5 million Palestinians. Israel allowed five seaborne aid shipments to get through but snapped the blockade shut after its 2009 war in Gaza.
“They have once again showed to the world that they know how good they are at killing people,” Erdoğan said. “Israel can in no way legitimize this murder; it cannot wash its hands of this blood.” He said the incident was no longer a problem between two countries but a problem of the entire world.
Erdoğan sharply criticized Israel for the “bloody massacre” that killed at least nine people on a Gaza-bound aid vessel and warned Tuesday that no one should test Turkey’s diplomatic patience. He said it was unacceptable to equate unarmed civilians with terrorists and warned Israel that Turkey was not a country they would like to be enemies with. “Turkey will not let this go,” he said, adding, “Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable.”
“Unfortunately, what happened yesterday was a dark stain on the history of humanity. Staging an armed attack on aid ships, killing innocent people and treating civilians as if they were terrorists are nothing but a degradation of humanity and vile recklessness. Even warfare has its rules. Even in warfare, no one can attack children, women, the elderly, civilians, religious officials and aid workers. Even despots, bandits and pirates have a certain sense of sensitivity. They abide by some moral principles,” he said.
“But Israel has almost challenged the whole world by raiding ships carrying volunteers from 32 different nations. This insolent, irresponsible, reckless and unfair attack by the Israeli government, which trampled on every kind of human value, must be punished by all means,” he said.
Attack staged against UN values
Erdoğan said: “The ships declared their cargo and their intention to the whole world before setting sail for Gaza. Sixty journalists from Turkey and other countries were also on board the ships to witness the campaign. It is evident that this attack on 600 people and six ships carrying aid to poor Palestinian people who were left destitute was one staged against the basic philosophy of the United Nations. The ships were laden with aid supplies and they were strictly controlled under international shipping rules. They were carrying volunteers. But they were subjected to such an armed attack,” he said.
“Following the terrorist attack on the naval base and the illegal attack on aid ships by Israeli forces, I cut short my visit to Chile and returned to Turkey. Our government has been following the developments closely from the very beginning. Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç held an extraordinary meeting with relevant ministers and other officials. Our foreign minister and national defense minister held telephone conversations with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak to convey Turkey’s reaction and uneasiness,” he said.
Erdoğan said: “Turkey has been using all means of international law and diplomacy and will continue to do so in the days ahead. To this end, we recalled our ambassador in Tel Aviv. Three joint military exercises scheduled with Israel were cancelled. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu went to New York and called the UN Security Council to hold an extraordinary meeting. As a result, the UN Security Council issued a statement condemning Israel and called for the immediate release of civilians and injured passengers. Matches to be played between Turkish and Israeli soccer teams were cancelled. The NATO Council will convene later today and the Organization of the Islamic Conference [OIC] will meet on Monday.”
“We rejected Israel’s offer to send us the injured passengers. We have the will and power to bring our own injured people back. Two military ambulances left to bring back the injured passengers. Civilian planes of the Ministry of Health are about to arrive there,” he said.
Erdoğan also said that “Israel must inform the world public opinion correctly. It should not refrain from international cooperation. Israel should acknowledge the importance of the situation and correct its mistake.”
The prime minister said Turkey would continue to support the Palestinian people. “We will not turn our back on Palestine, the Palestinians and Gaza,” he said. “No one should test Turkey’s patience,” he added. “Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable.” Erdoğan said Israel had turned into a nation that creates instability in its region and called on the international community to intervene. “There is an administrative mentality here that has adopted violence as its policy and that deems displaying acts of cruelty as legitimate. The illegal acts of the Israeli administration can no longer be covered up or ignored. It is time for the international community to say 'enough already’.”
Erdoğan also said Turkey has always stood against anti-Semitism and offered protection to the Jewish people when they were victims of violence and persecution. He said it was now the Israelis’ turn to do the same. He said the Israeli government, in lying, using deception, engaging in bloodshed and massacring the innocent, was damaging the people of Israel most. He also thanked the Turkish-Jewish community for its stance regarding Israel’s attacks. Erdoğan urged Israelis to question the actions of their government. “It is damaging your country’s image by conducting banditry and piracy,” he said. “It is damaging the interests of Israel and your peace and safety. It is the Israeli people who must stop the Israeli government in the first place,” he added.
Erdoğan said Israel cannot face the international community without expressing “regret.” “Israel cannot ensure its security by drawing the hatred of the entire world,” the prime minister declared.
Erdoğan said an aggressive country conducting state terrorism with no remorse could no longer face the international community. He said Israel attacking a civilian ship in international waters was a crime, but killing innocent people was state terrorism. “We are sick of your lies. Be honest,” he said, calling on Israel and demanding the return of the six seized ships.
So who do you think was in charge of the whole operation if I might ask? And since we're at it, does it really look like such an innocent thing to do? Really? I mean, you really think that the people on that ship did not have an agenda? I saw a Turkish woman screaming that she and her kid would jump straight back on the ship if they'd go back there today. Come on, now, that's just bullshit. I don't know why everyone is naive about these things.
Was Israel wrong? Yes. Should Isreal be punished? Yes. Did innocent people die? Questionable.
Was Israel wrong? Yes. Should Isreal be punished? Yes. Did innocent people die? Questionable.
I'm not saying I know about those matters. I'm just saying that by definition it seems to be an act of war.
Did the people on the boat have an agenda? Surely. Seems to me they wanted to supply Gaza, and Israhell has not provided proof they were carrying weapons.
It also seems that innocent people died, yes. That much is certain.
Did the people on the boat have an agenda? Surely. Seems to me they wanted to supply Gaza, and Israhell has not provided proof they were carrying weapons.
It also seems that innocent people died, yes. That much is certain.
Non military vessels are bestowed with sovereignty on a discretionary basis, simply running a flag up doesn't make it Turkish territory 
Now the only thing that matters is wether NATO interpret this SHIP to constitute a VESSEL in terms of the TREATY.
Essentially you both have valid points but the North Atlantic Treaty is a separate entity to the law of the sea and the sovereign equality of states.
Now the only thing that matters is wether NATO interpret this SHIP to constitute a VESSEL in terms of the TREATY.
Essentially you both have valid points but the North Atlantic Treaty is a separate entity to the law of the sea and the sovereign equality of states.
Non military vessels are bestowed with sovereignty on a discretionary basis, simply running a flag up doesn't make it Turkish territory
Now the only thing that matters is wether NATO interpret this SHIP to constitute a VESSEL in terms of the TREATY.
Essentially you both have valid points but the North Atlantic Treaty is a separate entity to the law of the sea and the sovereign equality of states.
Now the only thing that matters is wether NATO interpret this SHIP to constitute a VESSEL in terms of the TREATY.
Essentially you both have valid points but the North Atlantic Treaty is a separate entity to the law of the sea and the sovereign equality of states.