Israeli-Palestinian conflict (47 Viewers)

[Snoop]

I heard about 1 and 3.

As to number 4, I really didn't know that. You don't have the rights say genocide happened against Armenians? Sounds scary.

There was this campaign started by 200 Turkish intellects on internet, they wanted to apologize an share our pain for what happened 95 years ago, but they are in courts now, facing trial for "insulting Turkishness". sounds ridiculous doesn't it? They are trying to make peace with Armenians, and starting with the rightest move, but they are being stopped by Kemalists..

This is the site, with the name of the intellects and over 25 000 people signing the petition:
http://www.ozurdiliyoruz.com/

This is why the campaign for (in many languages):
http://www.ozurdiliyoruz.com/foreign.aspx


and this is the famous censorship of Turks, Article 301:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_(Turkish_penal_code)

I know there are some justifications, Snoop, but you know that other European countries do the same. Take as an example how Spain treat Basque people.

Spanish people are racists in general, I am not sure what happens there exactly, but I doubt they live as the same life standard as Kurds do. Some Kurds don't even have identities, btw did you know that Kurdish words were banned in past on TV, whoever uses it on tv could end up in jail for example? It is changing slowly, credit goes to Erdogan, but it is still slow, and they are still classified as second class citizens, even thou they are about 17 Million and even more than that, a lot of them still don't have national ids..

 

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[Il Re]

There are many reasons, just to count some:

1- Armenian Genocide, they keep denying it.
2- Cyprus
3- Kurds, the way they are treated.
4- Freedom of speech (301 st law), for example if you say that genocide is happened against Armenians, you might end up in jail. If you curse Ataturk, the same way..

and I am sure others can count the rest, these are the main problems..

i think this is a major issue

 

[ReBeL]

There are similiar laws in europe.you don't have the rights say genocide didn't happen in some countries.

We are not european, that's why we won't be in EU.we should repair the bridge between us and other Turks,Arabs,Muslims and turn our face to the east.I wouldn't cry if eu don't accept us.

That is the spirit we could feel between the Turks in the recent years. I hope Arabs won't let them down.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

This is the site, with the name of the intellects and over 25 000 people signing the petition:
http://www.ozurdiliyoruz.com/

This is why the campaign for (in many languages):
http://www.ozurdiliyoruz.com/foreign.aspx.

http://www.ozurdilemiyoruz.com/

 

[ReBeL]

i think this is a major issue

I agree. The funny thing when I was in the hotel in Limassol, the waiter came and I asked for Turkish coffee. I felt he was going to smash my head. He became so angry, and told me this: "Sir. There is nothing in the world called Turkish coffee. It is called Cypriot coffee!!!". I told him: "As long as it tastes like Turkish coffee, I'll take it. "

 

[Zé Tahir]

That is the spirit we could feel between the Turks in the recent years. I hope Arabs won't let them down.

Pakistan hasn't recognized Israel til this day. Send some love our way too eh

 

[Snoop]

I think the main thing is nr 4, denying past atrocities is quite bad and way more sensitivie and tense topic, but nr 4 is directly against the democratic foundation of the EU. That you can be prosecuted simply for questioning the demi-god status of Ataturk, or pose much of differing opinion. Turkey as a country has alot of potential, but things like this is something they have to overcome to grow as a country.

Thanx! That's what I am talking about. The main problem of Turkey is the kemalism, treating Ataturk as God. Those people are very very nationalist, and a lot of dirty work been done for that, against everybody, Kurds, Armenians, and even their own people. There is a big gang called Ergenekon in Turkey, it's like the one in Italy few decades back, they are facing trials these days, Turk (the member) will approve it and give you more details. Other than that, Erdogan's party is also being scared of taking the control over everything, and changing the state to religious (even if you like that to happen, but a lot of Turks don't want it, half of the people).

As for Turkey having potential, I absolutely agree with that, they have great intellects and very good people, but at the same time, they have ultra-nationalist which is making their image look bad from outside. Don't forget how two Leads united fans were killed in Istanbul for insulting Ataturk..

But yeah, even if it werent for those conditions, I pretty much doubt they would be allowed in simply because of their religion. There is way too much islamophobia/xeonophobia in Europe to say the least, to get a majority acceptance for them.

I agree with that as well, they are afraid of Islams taking control of the EU congress (whatever the exact name is) because of the huge population of Turkey comparing to other countries in EU. But other than that, we can't ignore the reasons I mentioned, and it will be biased to say Turkey is ready to join EU..

 

[ReBeL]

Pakistan hasn't recognized Israel til this day. Send some love our way too eh

Pakistanis are the best.

Good?

 

[Snoop]

http://www.ozurdilemiyoruz.com/

ozurdilemiyoruz means "we don't apologize". yeah this is what I am talking about, Ultra-Nationalism of Turks

 

[Snoop]

I agree. The funny thing when I was in the hotel in Limassol, the waiter came and I asked for Turkish coffee. I felt he was going to smash my head. He became so angry, and told me this: "Sir. There is nothing in the world called Turkish coffee. It is called Cypriot coffee!!!". I told him: "As long as it tastes like Turkish coffee, I'll take it. "

 

[Zé Tahir]

Pakistanis are the best.

Good?

 

[CheSchifo!]

I know there are some justifications, Snoop, but you know that other European countries do the same. Take as an example how Spain treat Basque people.

There are criteria to meet before you can join the EU. You can look them up.

I think the main thing is nr 4, denying past atrocities is quite bad and way more sensitivie and tense topic, but nr 4 is directly against the democratic foundation of the EU. That you can be prosecuted simply for questioning the demi-god status of Ataturk, or pose much of differing opinion. Turkey as a country has alot of potential, but things like this is something they have to overcome to grow as a country.

But yeah, even if it werent for those conditions, I pretty much doubt they would be allowed in simply because of their religion. There is way too much islamophobia/xeonophobia in Europe to say the least, to get a majority acceptance for them.

I doubt that. Not in the least because there are many Turks all over Europe, but also because Islam is well established religion in most European countries. Hell, Belgian tax payers even support Islam as Islam are an acknowledged religion in Belgium (just like christianity or judaism by the way). Furthermore the freedom of religion has always been an important issue in the EU.

They could be denied the right to enter on the basis of the fact that they are not a secular state at all though. Which is only just.

 

[CheSchifo!]

I agree with that as well, they are afraid of Islams taking control of the EU congress (whatever the exact name is) because of the huge population of Turkey comparing to other countries in EU. But other than that, we can't ignore the reasons I mentioned, and it will be biased to say Turkey is ready to join EU..

That's impossible.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Spanish people are racists in general, I am not sure what happens there exactly, but I doubt they live as the same life standard as Kurds do. Some Kurds don't even have identities, btw did you know that Kurdish words were banned in past on TV, whoever uses it on tv could end up in jail for example? It is changing slowly, credit goes to Erdogan, but it is still slow, and they are still classified as second class citizens, even thou they are about 17 Million and even more than that, a lot of them still don't have national ids..

Seriously, what the fuck? The two situations are not even similar. It's Basques killing Spaniards more than it is the other way around remember .

 

[Snoop]

That's impossible.

probably, I don't insist on that because I don't have much information the way you elect in EU. But from what I heard, their (Turks) claim was, that there will be a lot of Turkish ministers/elects from Turks in EU, because of the Turkish population, and Turks' votes all over Europe (Belgium, Holland, German, Austria etc..), so Europe don't want that and reject them for that.

How does the election takes place exactly?

 

[CheSchifo!]

probably, I don't insist on that because I don't have much information the way you elect in EU. But from what I heard, their (Turks) claim was, that there will be a lot of Turkish ministers/elects from Turks in EU, because of the Turkish population, and Turks' votes all over Europe (Belgium, Holland, German, Austria etc..), so Europe don't want that and reject them for that.

How does the election takes place exactly?

Perhaps you mean that there could be many Turks in the parliament. I don't quite see how the difference for the Council would be all that big. I find it a peculiar argument. Sounds more like they are venting frustration to be honest.

 

[Martin]

Pakistan hasn't recognized Israel til this day. Send some love our way too eh

Great, I'm sure that has accomplished a whole lot :faq1:

 

[ReBeL]

Great, I'm sure that has accomplished a whole lot :faq1:

What is your point?

 

[Il Re]

hold up guys, correct me if i'm wrong but i thought turkey was a secular country?

 

[Martin]

What is your point?

My point is that despite Pakistan's refusal to recognize Israel pretty much every country has. It's a long lost battle. What good does it do other than "moral support"?