Is it okay to make fun of religion? (8 Viewers)

[Eddy]

Wait, God doesn't exist, but Religion has hurt people as the unexisting God has killed people? :luckyluke: Illogical, isn't it?

No dude, you don't understand what we're trying to say. We're not the believers here.

 

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[Raz]

Well geographically the speaking the Jews were God's chosen tribe and in the area they lived the people were mostly arab. Sure their tribes had specific names, but the people were mostly arab, not all arabs are islamic if that what you're thinking. I wasn't implying to God as being a racist as our confused friend above thinks. Just merely breaking down the NT (a jewish text) to it's basic essence.

Agreed then, i thought you meant islamic.

 

[Enron]

No dude, you don't understand what we're trying to say. We're not the believers here.

It's not even worth it. He'll debunk himself if you let him go long enough.

 

[Martin]

I can take a stab at explaining it for you right here, Martin. You seem to believe that your scientific-method-based, physical-evidence-based system of metaphysical beliefs is above and beyond reproach. All other systems of belief are inferior to the one you've adopted, because they're based upon lies and fail these tests.

This makes your belief system the one, true way. And as seemingly the negative or absence of spiritual beliefs, this makes it different from all the others -- making it exceptional, at least in the classic definition of the word, and therefore above and beyond the frailties of all those other pesky, fabricated religious beliefs.

Well, guess what? Scientific-method-based, physical-evidence-based systems are flawed, and they, too, require a leap of faith to become a believer. I'm told the earth is round (something the scientific world didn't believe for a while either), but I've never witnessed it from space. But I have faith in the people and evidence-based systems in place, so I believe it is round. Just as many of us put faith in our monetary system of currencies. And sometimes, as the world financial events of the past year can show, that faith can be misplaced. Newton's laws are still correct, but Relativity showed it's only under specific conditions.

So what do we have... a sense of a superior belief system, references to a code supporting that belief system, etc. Oddly enough, that could describe a radical mullah for all I know on the surface. Hasn't human history fallen for this trap before? And the insistence that other belief systems are false and that those who believe them are doing harm to themselves? I don't know if you've ever had a Jehovah's Witness come to your door, but they're not knocking on your door to deliver a pizza.

So all faith is faith and it doesn't matter how you come around to it because no one is better than the other? This is what you believe? Of course it isn't.

Is this all to prove to me that what I have is also faith? You're too late, I know that already. But yes I am so arrogant as to claim that my faith is based on a certain foundation more solid than certain other beliefs. Noone is completely rational, but I strive to do my best and eliminate all beliefs that don't have a solid empirical justification.

And guess what, everyone does this. Everyone believes their faith is superior to all others, so why single me out for this obnoxious conviction I have?

If you really want to put this specific thread to bed, I think you need to first ask this question of yourself: When is it OK for one religion to make fun of another religion? (I don't think I'm playing a new hand here in saying that I see atheism and agnosticism as just another flavor of religion.) For example, when is it OK for Nazi Christians to make fun of Jews?

I cross the line myself a lot more than most people are comfortable. But I will admit there's a line -- albeit with room on either side. That includes a line for making fun of atheists, btw.

The question is not when, but if. Is there anything sacred that you can't make fun of? That is the point here. And some people have said yes there is. And I debated with them.

That there is a when and that some jokes are suitable while others are not is self evident, don't you think? So why waste time on that.

But comparing religious beliefs to drunk driving clearly isn't the right analogy to make, IMO.

How about prayer healing vs drunk driving?

 

[Raz]

Not all of it, but in youth groups we used to study some "important" sections of it.

The youth groups were actually a good thing. Brought people together and played some soccer.

I totally agree with this, kids have to be occupied with activities.

I wanted to ask what do you think about the change of character of god from old testament and new one? I know its two different target markets and times are different too, even geography is different. For me it is a big change of character, and i think that supreme beings cant make such big character change, since they were supposed to be perfect. I would like to hear your opinion on this?

 

[Bjerknes]

This is from the other thread.

What do you mean? Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean you're not in one or the other.

Isn't that like discrimination?

Even if I don't believe in either, I'm still in or bound to go to one of them.

This is what we're talking about. People of religion pushing their own views on to others and making them feel bad for not being a "believer."

Hold on there, Andy. As much as I hate Dubai, what do you mean exactly ?

Come on. The place sells it soul for profits, enslaves foreigners to do their work, and then punishes them by jail time even if they owe 1 cent to some entity. Throw in the torture techniques by the Emirs and what not, then you have Tahir's hell on earth as he keeps going on about.

I always thought Dubai had very little oil reserves if any at all?

Not the physical oil. The paper oil, if you know what I mean.

 

[Enron]

Not the physical oil. The paper oil, if you know what I mean.

Yeah totally. They're like the Caymans of the Middle East.

 

[Yamen]

Paper oil was sent your country. And it has been spent to the last penny.

 

[Bjerknes]

I totally agree with this, kids have to be occupied with activities.

I wanted to ask what do you think about the change of character of god from old testament and new one? I know its two different target markets and times are different too, even geography is different. For me it is a big change of character, and i think that supreme beings cant make such big character change, since they were supposed to be perfect. I would like to hear your opinion on this?

It's all about Jesus. Once He came to Earth, people started believing in a new loving sort of God. Apparently, He managed to change the views of some who already knew the Old Testament. I hear that's how the story goes.

 

[Raz]

It's all about Jesus. Once He came to Earth, people started believing in a new loving sort of God. Apparently, He managed to change the views of some who already knew the Old Testament. I hear that's how the story goes.

Times change, yes. But does the god fallow fashion trends too?

 

[swag]

But yes I am so arrogant as to claim that my faith is based on a certain foundation more solid than certain other beliefs. Noone is completely rational, but I strive to do my best and eliminate all beliefs that don't have a solid empirical justification.

Hence your faith is in empirical justification. Which is all well and good, but IMO, no different than any other religion in my book.

I know a lot of people I respect who have other mechanisms for basing their faith. I don't think I can be as flippant as you in dismissing some and not others because my opinion somehow invalidates someone else's.

You seem to think you can, and that's clearly your right. But I find irony in that some of the very things you rail against about some belief systems you seem to feel are perfectly acceptable in your own. Because that's so old hat in human history, it's beyond being a mere ancient fallacy.

And guess what, everyone does this. Everyone believes their faith is superior to all others, so why single me out for this obnoxious conviction I have?

I don't think you are any different. If I was presuming that you thought that this made you different, then I misjudged.

The question is not when, but if. Is there anything sacred that you can't make fun of? That is the point here. And some people have said yes there is. And I debated with them.

Well, everything is fair game in my book. But that's just my skewed opinion. It comes down to being about the extent.

Rights of human beings are always coming into conflict. And it's rare that you ever find unilateral solutions being the right answer -- which is why I don't see it as an "if" question but a "when" question.

But I'm just preaching to the choir it sounds here.

How about prayer healing vs drunk driving?

Now that is much better!

 

[Bjerknes]

Paper oil was sent your country. And it has been spent to the last penny.

No. We've always had the demand, so we're loyal customers.

Don't be angry that Dubai is a faux economy and our own people trade the commodity to set the price. OPEC nations try to change the outcome of the price, but most of the time they're unsuccessful.

I just wish traders would keep the crude in a range between 30 and 50 dollars. That way you'll really be screwed over there.

 

[Bjerknes]

Times change, yes. But does the god fallow fashion trends too?

He doesn't follow them, He creates them.

 

[Yamen]

There is nothing to screw as Dubai is outta oil and cash. Economy has hit hard under the belt around here, and I am sure you have been enlightened about that in the US media. I am not much of an economy guru my self, so I don't think I can argue much about the prices above

 

[Bjerknes]

There is nothing to screw as Dubai is outta oil and cash. Economy has hit hard under the belt around here, and I am sure you have been enlightened about that in the US media. I am not much of an economy guru my self, so I don't think I can argue much about the prices above

I don't pay much attention to the US media, if that's what you're trying to say.

And I'm delighted with the state of Dubai's economy. I just hope the innocent foreigners get out safely.

 

[swag]

This is from the other thread.

As I was saying, Martin.

 

[Raz]

He doesn't follow them, He creates them.

Raiiiiight

 

[Bjerknes]

As I was saying, Martin.

I won't lie: not following.

 

[swag]

I won't lie: not following.

No need.

It was more to underscore a previous meta exchange in here between Martin and I where we had been talking about repetitive discussions that get heated and yet don't propagate new threads and polls every day (e.g., Del Piero vs. Zlatan) and those that do...

Namely, the fact that you cross-referenced another thread is one small example underscoring how we're just piling on the same discussion in multiple threads in parallel at the same time and making a mess of things to follow/manage.

 

[Bjerknes]

No need.

It was more to underscore a previous meta exchange in here between Martin and I where we had been talking about repetitive discussions that get heated and yet don't propagate new threads and polls every day (e.g., Del Piero vs. Zlatan) and those that do...

Namely, the fact that you cross-referenced another thread is one small example underscoring how we're just piling on the same discussion in multiple threads in parallel at the same time and making a mess of things to follow/manage.

Ah, well hey, I had to respond. Anything regarding the economy is up my ally.