In the category 'redundant': Catholicism (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter Slagathor
- Start date
Tifoso Lou said:
Got ya. 
He absolutely could do that. Or he could choose to come here and reign visibly as king...but---
then we would lose our free will (ie, no one, seeing him and knowing him for what he was would reject him). Our free will would be gone (as would our faith) because we would see him. It would cease to be a choice. We would all in essence be toy soldiers.
This was not his original plan (read Aquinas). Our fallen-ness caused it.
But don't worry, we all get a second chance.
He absolutely could do that. Or he could choose to come here and reign visibly as king...but---
then we would lose our free will (ie, no one, seeing him and knowing him for what he was would reject him). Our free will would be gone (as would our faith) because we would see him. It would cease to be a choice. We would all in essence be toy soldiers.
This was not his original plan (read Aquinas). Our fallen-ness caused it.
But don't worry, we all get a second chance.
but i have a question here as an orthodox(Greek word for correct dogma),
then why did he planted a live specimen of His power among us?
i m reffering to the Pope here,we do have His word written,the humanity kept His memory,why do we need a mortal among us to guide us with his words, that are laws for the rest?
The church is enough for this role to provide all the necesary guideness,
doesnt the Pope mess up with this balance?
Isnt he(the Pope) the live undeniable proof of His existence?
Doesnt this mess with the free will?
If it isnt then whats his role?
The Orthodox are an exception, file mou...
Usually without a head, a church fragments (which explains 38,000+ Protestant sects).
The RC and the Orthodox are not that far off from a reunion, IMHO. (And I don't mean an absorption of O by RC, either. The Orthodox have many beautiful expressions of Faith that I truly admire: intinction, a stricter Lenten fast, etc. I mean something along the lines of the Byzantine, Coptic, etc Churches).
Opa
Usually without a head, a church fragments (which explains 38,000+ Protestant sects).
The RC and the Orthodox are not that far off from a reunion, IMHO. (And I don't mean an absorption of O by RC, either. The Orthodox have many beautiful expressions of Faith that I truly admire: intinction, a stricter Lenten fast, etc. I mean something along the lines of the Byzantine, Coptic, etc Churches).
Opa
Tifoso Lou said:
The Orthodox are an exception, file mou...
Usually without a head, a church fragments (which explains 38,000+ Protestant sects).
The RC and the Orthodox are not that far off from a reunion, IMHO. (And I don't mean an absorption of O by RC, either. The Orthodox have many beautiful expressions of Faith that I truly admire: intinction, a stricter Lenten fast, etc. I mean something along the lines of the Byzantine, Coptic, etc Churches).
Opa
Usually without a head, a church fragments (which explains 38,000+ Protestant sects).
The RC and the Orthodox are not that far off from a reunion, IMHO. (And I don't mean an absorption of O by RC, either. The Orthodox have many beautiful expressions of Faith that I truly admire: intinction, a stricter Lenten fast, etc. I mean something along the lines of the Byzantine, Coptic, etc Churches).
Opa
why a head is needed for the church of all humanity?
and why not a council(as it used to be) or smth?
the church sould have a local caracter and the only rules allowed to be followed sould be the ancient pure and written words from the Holy books,
the exact interpretation of them is something beyond human reach,
every human has the tendency to interpret those words in his mind in his own unique way and noone can change that,
thats why the local priest is the one that actually has the greatest influence among people and the local priests tend to follow the local habbits anyway,
IMO opinion the Episcops Patriarhs etc etc are there to organize the church and gother power with the old fashioned emperor/king way,
how can we all trust the hole religion in one man's judgement?
i know these are Holy men, but they are just men and they can do mistakes,
history prooved that, as it prooved that power corrupts too...
Anyway many years have pasted, the humanity changed and indeed the differences between the two churches arent what it used to be.
You have to look back to why we became like that now. He gave us a choice to eat the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, Adam & Eve were tempted and ate it and thus, had sinned against God.
The reason He gave us a choice is to see whether we can be obedient. Obedience is the most important thing. By eating the Forbidden fruit, Man has sinned against God and the sin was carried down to all the humans.
God DID make us perfect in the first place. He made us to be like an image of Him. We are different from other creations or angels even. He gave His breath of Life to us only.
However, by eating the fruit, we start to know all the things and start to question God, disobey and everything. We start to sin and anger God and you can see from there at one point when He was so disappointed that He even wiped out the entire earth leaving Noah, his family and all the other creations.
Sin is the reason we are inperfect. However, with the sacrifice of His Son, our sins are forgiven.
The reason He gave us a choice is to see whether we can be obedient. Obedience is the most important thing. By eating the Forbidden fruit, Man has sinned against God and the sin was carried down to all the humans.
God DID make us perfect in the first place. He made us to be like an image of Him. We are different from other creations or angels even. He gave His breath of Life to us only.
However, by eating the fruit, we start to know all the things and start to question God, disobey and everything. We start to sin and anger God and you can see from there at one point when He was so disappointed that He even wiped out the entire earth leaving Noah, his family and all the other creations.
Sin is the reason we are inperfect. However, with the sacrifice of His Son, our sins are forgiven.
Tifoso Lou said:
Got ya.
He absolutely could do that. Or he could choose to come here and reign visibly as king...but---
then we would lose our free will (ie, no one, seeing him and knowing him for what he was would reject him). Our free will would be gone (as would our faith) because we would see him. It would cease to be a choice. We would all in essence be toy soldiers.
This was not his original plan (read Aquinas). Our fallen-ness caused it.
But don't worry, we all get a second chance.
He absolutely could do that. Or he could choose to come here and reign visibly as king...but---
then we would lose our free will (ie, no one, seeing him and knowing him for what he was would reject him). Our free will would be gone (as would our faith) because we would see him. It would cease to be a choice. We would all in essence be toy soldiers.
This was not his original plan (read Aquinas). Our fallen-ness caused it.
But don't worry, we all get a second chance.
I don't know if someone knows Hans Teeuwen, bar Erik, but he once said you have to be somewhat idiotic to believe in the following fashion:
"Whenever I go into discussion with a christian about his religion, I ask why they believe in certain things. They always tell me it's written so in the Bible. So now when I'm planning to discuss religion I carry a little paper with me. It says: GOD DOES NOT EXIST! So I can say it's strange other people claim God has to exist because it's written, since my piece of paper says otherwise."
"Whenever I go into discussion with a christian about his religion, I ask why they believe in certain things. They always tell me it's written so in the Bible. So now when I'm planning to discuss religion I carry a little paper with me. It says: GOD DOES NOT EXIST! So I can say it's strange other people claim God has to exist because it's written, since my piece of paper says otherwise."
We can choose the path ourselves. The Kingdom is prepared already and it is for those who are ready and faithful to Him and waiting for Him. He knows what will happen and He is always there. But ultimately, we are still the ones to make the decision to believe in Him and to do His will. If we reject Him, how can He have us by His side in heaven?
We must be purified before He brings us to His kingdom. Unless we are pure-hearted, we cannot see His kingdom. However, the devil is always there, and sin and temptation are always in our hearts to draw us away from Him. We can be pure-hearted by being obedient, having Him first in our hearts and believing in Him. Through prayer and following His word, we will communicate with Him and be closer to him. The Bible is there to help us as sometimes He will communicate to us through His word.
If He isn't perfect, who will be? He is the Creator and most powerful.
We must be purified before He brings us to His kingdom. Unless we are pure-hearted, we cannot see His kingdom. However, the devil is always there, and sin and temptation are always in our hearts to draw us away from Him. We can be pure-hearted by being obedient, having Him first in our hearts and believing in Him. Through prayer and following His word, we will communicate with Him and be closer to him. The Bible is there to help us as sometimes He will communicate to us through His word.
If He isn't perfect, who will be? He is the Creator and most powerful.
It is not just limited to the Bible. The Lord doesn't only communicate to Man through His word. Man can also communicate to Him through prayer and the Holy Spirit. The reason why I believe is because I have seen and experienced His work and presence. The way He answers my prayers is amazing.
Be open and try. Do not be hard-hearted and reject Him without even having an experience with Him. I'm not forcing you. I just want to let you to know Him and let Him come into your life.
How he picked a bunch of crappy newspapers and from that concluded that he was happy not living in those countries. Look at the rubbish papers he picked from Britain, I'm sure there are "papers" like that in America also. It was just a cheap shot, and if that's the way he feels he can keep his old ass where it is.