Immigration (1 Viewer)

River

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2004
2,261
#1
Something that bothers me quite alot. So im posting here to hear your views/other nations views on the issue

In the Uk assylum seekers come to this country because the UK offers them better than anywere else in the world. They get here easily without problems. Which i dont have much of a problem with except i think it needs to be under control more.

But when they get here, they complain about the british government, what they are recieving for being an assylum seeker, racial indifference, lack of support etc. The government consider improving their conditions, and they demand it. When infact its already better than anywhere, and what right do they really have to demand changes to british rule and demand more of a government that isnt theres?

I dont have a problem with people coming to the country. I only have a problem with there new demands which take government money, tax payers money from other things like health care and education, british citizens lose out so we can house and accomodate for them.

Yes you might say the Uk being a wealthy country has a dutie to help these not-as fortunate people. I agree inpart, but i think if you wanna come here you have to expect a degree of difference and have to be willing to work like the rest of us. Or else dont come at all.

Some Assylum seekers do generally come here for a better life and a chance to work and earn. But most just come here to sit around on there ass doing nothing and take money for doing it.

What do you think?
 

K10

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,698
#2
I agree with you.

Don't leave your country to enter another to drain someone else' resources.

If you have nothing to offer in the country you want to enter, stay at ur own country.

IMO it is irratating to see all these, for example, Indians, in all parts of the world (Canada, US, England). I just hate it. It's like, what are you doing here, its not for you. They just come and drain out the resources.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,077
#3
++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
Yes you might say the Uk being a wealthy country has a dutie to help these not-as fortunate people. I agree inpart, but i think if you wanna come here you have to expect a degree of difference and have to be willing to work like the rest of us. Or else dont come at all.
We have the same situation here. A lot of immigrants come, and while many of them are highly qualified, a lot of them can't get jobs because they can't speaky engrish very well. Now I don't have anything against these people at all, in fact I feel great sympathy for them, since they have such high qualifications, but end up working as taxi drivers (nothing wrong with taxi drivers btw).

On the other hand, we have people who have left their countries for one reason or another, and I know that a lot of them just buy houses in the same neighbourhood, sit around on their porches getting fat, and let their children form gangs and make entire suburbs no-go-zones for anyone not of ____ nationality. Now to be honest, the generalisations about people of certain nationalities is often very true, though naming them would bear no relevance to the topic at hand.
++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
Some Assylum seekers do generally come here for a better life and a chance to work and earn. But most just come here to sit around on there ass doing nothing and take money for doing it.
I wouldn't say most of them just sit around doing nothing, but even as an immigrant, it angers me to see a lot of foreigners serving only to raise crime rates and make unhygienic restaurants.
 

BigIzz

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
1,088
#4
I think that people are people and it makes no difference what country someone comes from, they are no better or worse then anyone else, fellow countryman or not. We all ought to be able to live where we like, free from hassle. I know many Mexicans who are here illegally in the US but work harder for less reward then any "real" American I know. Yes, some imigrants are a drian on society but then again so are many non immigrants.

That said, when you are living in a country you are entering into a contract to follow the rules of life there. If you do not like it, you are generally free to leave. I just think that at least here in the US, as many fellow Americans are just as lazy and just as willing to complain as the immigrants but it is easier to single out immigrants.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,077
#5
++ [ originally posted by BigIzz ] ++
That said, when you are living in a country you are entering into a contract to follow the rules of life there. If you do not like it, you are generally free to leave. I just think that at least here in the US, as many fellow Americans are just as lazy and just as willing to complain as the immigrants but it is easier to single out immigrants.
Then again, if the locals are idle, there's not much anyone can say about it, since they're citizens of the country, but I can understand the chagrine that natives often feel when foreigners come to their country and make life worse for everyone else
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#6
++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

We have the same situation here. A lot of immigrants come , and while many of them are highly qualified, a lot of them can't get jobs because they can't speaky engrish very well. Now I don't have anything against these people at all, in fact I feel great sympathy for them, since they have such high qualifications, but end up working as taxi drivers (nothing wrong with taxi drivers btw).

On the other hand, we have people who have left their countries for one reason or another, and I know that a lot of them just buy houses in the same neighbourhood, sit around on their porches getting fat, and let their children form gangs and make entire suburbs no-go-zones for anyone not of ____ nationality. Now to be honest, the generalisations about people of certain nationalities is often very true, though naming them would bear no relevance to the topic at hand.

I wouldn't say most of them just sit around doing nothing, but even as an immigrant, it angers me to see a lot of foreigners serving only to raise crime rates and make unhygienic restaurants.

And arent you one of them gray? I think you are, and you're saying: them, these people etc.
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#7
++ [ originally posted by BigIzz ] ++
I think that people are people and it makes no difference what country someone comes from, they are no better or worse then anyone else, fellow countryman or not. We all ought to be able to live where we like, free from hassle. I know many Mexicans who are here illegally in the US but work harder for less reward then any "real" American I know. Yes, some imigrants are a drian on society but then again so are many non immigrants.

That said, when you are living in a country you are entering into a contract to follow the rules of life there. If you do not like it, you are generally free to leave. I just think that at least here in the US, as many fellow Americans are just as lazy and just as willing to complain as the immigrants but it is easier to single out immigrants.
That's true, plus many of them do the worst kind of job, no citizen of the country would take it.
 

IncuboRossonero

Inferiority complex
Nov 16, 2003
7,039
#8
Touchy subject....immigration has helped make what the United States and Canada is today..even 20th Century immigration. They arrive need a helping hand...will pay off in the long run with their hard work, knowledge, innovation, etc. It is all reciprical. What I have a problem with is demands like someone mentioned. When you demand that your host nation accomodate you AND that means they have to change their own system to accomodate you.

The situation in Italy escalated when a religious individual from another nation (which I will not mention) sued an elementary school because there was a Catholic symbol (cross) in the classroom and he demanded they take it down since his son should not be subjected to that. The judge rejected the demand. Rightfully so. Italy is a Catholic Nation...if you are going to live off the wealth and reap the benefits it provides you will HAVE to learn to accept its values and more importantly RESPECT them and not hide behind this FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS VEIL crying foul when your own nation will not even respect basic human rights of others from different religions. That situation had me sick to my stomach.
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#9
++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
Something that bothers me quite alot. So im posting here to hear your views/other nations views on the issue

In the Uk assylum seekers come to this country because the UK offers them better than anywere else in the world. They get here easily without problems. Which i dont have much of a problem with except i think it needs to be under control more.

But when they get here, they complain about the british government, what they are recieving for being an assylum seeker, racial indifference, lack of support etc. The government consider improving their conditions, and they demand it. When infact its already better than anywhere, and what right do they really have to demand changes to british rule and demand more of a government that isnt theres?

I dont have a problem with people coming to the country. I only have a problem with there new demands which take government money, tax payers money from other things like health care and education, british citizens lose out so we can house and accomodate for them.

Yes you might say the Uk being a wealthy country has a dutie to help these not-as fortunate people. I agree inpart, but i think if you wanna come here you have to expect a degree of difference and have to be willing to work like the rest of us. Or else dont come at all.

Some Assylum seekers do generally come here for a better life and a chance to work and earn. But most just come here to sit around on there ass doing nothing and take money for doing it.

What do you think?

River: you've got your points there.
But I think that many, not most, most is a little too harsh.

I would add one more thing: many of immigrants dont want to fit to local customs, they are like: hey it's our culture to you must accept it.
When actually they should do that, cause they are "guests" in other country.

If all those would be fixed, by some miracle, cause I cant see any other way, people wouldnt complain about immigrants.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#10
++ [ originally posted by K10 ] ++
I agree with you.

Don't leave your country to enter another to drain someone else' resources.

If you have nothing to offer in the country you want to enter, stay at ur own country.

IMO it is irratating to see all these, for example, Indians, in all parts of the world (Canada, US, England). I just hate it. It's like, what are you doing here, its not for you. They just come and drain out the resources.
i'm impressed with your extensive knowledge and wide perspective about the issue! :lazy:
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#12
++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
Touchy subject....immigration has helped make what the United States and Canada is today..even 20th Century immigration. They arrive need a helping hand...will pay off in the long run with their hard work, knowledge, innovation, etc. It is all reciprical. What I have a problem with is demands like someone mentioned. When you demand that your host nation accomodate you AND that means they have to change their own system to accomodate you.

The situation in Italy escalated when a religious individual from another nation (which I will not mention) sued an elementary school because there was a Catholic symbol (cross) in the classroom and he demanded they take it down since his son should not be subjected to that. The judge rejected the demand. Rightfully so. Italy is a Catholic Nation...if you are going to live off the wealth and reap the benefits it provides you will HAVE to learn to accept its values and more importantly RESPECT them and not hide behind this FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS VEIL crying foul when your own nation will not even respect basic human rights of others from different religions. That situation had me sick to my stomach.

That's the example of that what I meant about "not to fit to local customs"
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#13
++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
Touchy subject....immigration has helped make what the United States and Canada is today..even 20th Century immigration. They arrive need a helping hand...will pay off in the long run with their hard work, knowledge, innovation, etc. It is all reciprical. What I have a problem with is demands like someone mentioned. When you demand that your host nation accomodate you AND that means they have to change their own system to accomodate you.

The situation in Italy escalated when a religious individual from another nation (which I will not mention) sued an elementary school because there was a Catholic symbol (cross) in the classroom and he demanded they take it down since his son should not be subjected to that. The judge rejected the demand. Rightfully so. Italy is a Catholic Nation...if you are going to live off the wealth and reap the benefits it provides you will HAVE to learn to accept its values and more importantly RESPECT them and not hide behind this FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS VEIL crying foul when your own nation will not even respect basic human rights of others from different religions. That situation had me sick to my stomach.
yes.. I agree

However, about your example, I think using the country's majority/official religion as an example of values that shouldn't be changed is questionable.

religion is a personal thing... This issue goes beyond immigrants... What would you say if the person in that example was a native Italian who converted to another religion?

The reason why i'm saying it's questionable (in other words i'm undecided) is not only because i dont know the case's details, but also because i dont know the italian laws or school system... are they similar to the USA's?
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#14
++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
religion is a personal thing... This issue goes beyond immigrants... What would you say if the person in that example was a native Italian who converted to another religion?

I would say nothing :)
I'm Pole in ultra-catholic Poland where crosses are all around you, in every public institution, including schools, and I'm not Catholic.
But other Poles are catholics, and if they need all those crosses on their own country - well, that's not what bothers me.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#15
++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++



I would say nothing :)
I'm Pole in ultra-catholic Poland where crosses are all around you, in every public institution, including schools, and I'm not Catholic.
But other Poles are catholics, and if they need all those crosses on their own country - well, that's not what bothers me.
yeah true... I wouldn't mind them either because it doesn't prevent others from practicing their religion (it's not like in France where Muslim girls are prevented from wearing the islamic head-scarf in public schools). However, i don't see anything wrong with filing a complaint IF:
a. There are no other options (these crosses are in every public school)
b. the Polish constitution is as neutral as the USA's is when it comes to religion.
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#16
a) there is no must, school and parents decide, if they want crosses or not, but dont forget: we are ultra-catholic country, everyone wants.
But from the other side, we have many Greek-catholics in the east of the country, and they also can use religion symbols in their schools.
But dont forget, we kinda have catholicism as a national religion, so everything is set up on it, not on other religions.
b) The Polish constitution cant be neutral, cause WE ARE ultra-catholic country, did you read me previously? :D
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#17
++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++
a) there is no must, school and parents decide, if they want crosses or not, but dont forget: we are ultra-catholic country, everyone wants.
But from the other side, we have many Greek-catholics in the east of the country, and they also can use religion symbols in their schools.
But dont forget, we kinda have catholicism as a national religion, so everything is set up on it, not on other religions.
b) The Polish constitution cant be neutral, cause WE ARE ultra-catholic country, did you read me previously? :D
that much, eh?! :D

i see now... I guess the non-catholics just have to live with it. :)
 

K10

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,698
#18
++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


i'm impressed with your extensive knowledge and wide perspective about the issue! :lazy:
Sorry, I maybe biased in this situation as I just can't stand seeing people "trying to over rule" a countries rules/beliefs/whatever.

But you must admit it's ridiculous when too many people migrate to a country.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,077
#19
++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++
And arent you one of them gray? I think you are, and you're saying: them, these people etc.
Yes I am 'one of them', and I already acknowledged that in my original post.
++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
I wouldn't say most of them just sit around doing nothing, but even as an immigrant, it angers me to see a lot of foreigners serving only to raise crime rates and make unhygienic restaurants.
But anyway, that's not the point. I mean if I was writing about Juve fans, I wouldn't constantly say "we we we", it's much easier to stick to a neutral POV when writing more than a couple of sentences e.g.

That said, I also feel a certain 'right' to a stance on the side of native Australians, since:

1) My passport says
"Place of birth: Australia
Nationality: Australian"

2) My family doesn't ass around and suck up resources by collecting the dole. My dad is a government employee and my mother operates a wholesale nursery.

I'm not saying that we're superior and that I look down on all unemployed immigrants, since I'm well aware that a lot of them are trying hard to get jobs, but as a tax payer to the Australian government, I believe I have a right to voice my opinion of people who spend government resources without putting anything back into the country.
 

vitoria_Ally

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
7,232
#20
Oh right, I didnt notice that part "but even as an immigrant", sorry :)

btw: do you feel attacked by me or what, they you explain yourself so much?
I didnt intend to attack you, I didnt notice that "but even as an immigrant" part, so I was wondering, why you're putting yourself outside of immigrants group using "they, those people" words.
 

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