Il disastro di Torino (10 Viewers)

[Wings]

FIGHT!

 

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[Luca]

I don't know why olic is reffered to as Croatia's Heskey, ok they both run like horses but olic is far more dynamic.

 

[YasoR17]

I still can't believe what Ivica Olic of all people was doing to us yesterday. I know the guy since he started his career and I never rated him.
He improved a lot lately, though.

Still, his off the ball movement was always his quality. And as boring as I sound, i'll repeat again that we lack that. We desperately lack that, especially without Iaquinta in our attack.

If you have the strength to do it, then watch yesterday's match again.
Olic runs, without purpose at first glance, the other Bayern players see his run and pass the ball. We do it differently. We just kick the ball without thinking where it will go and the attacker runs to catch it. Of course, he'll catch it only once in 30 tries while Olic will get it 9 times out of 10 because he's already running before the ball is passed to him and he already gained advantage over his markers. Plus he's making the defenders tired. Bordeaux were doing the same to us, even fucking Matri and Palermo's attackers were doing the same.

And surprisingly, when you check the stats, expecting that we ran at least 10 kms less than the other team, you'll see that our players cover almost the same kms the opponents do. Well, it's not so surprising maybe when you see that we run without any purpose and we run just for the sake of running.

It's awful, it's disgusting, it's a coach fault. Then again, our off the ball movement has been pretty poor not only this season so it might not be Ferrara's fault only. It's a problem of the Italian football school.

Work on that dammit.

Another reason why Chamakh is perfect.

 

[mukumsplau]

woke up thinking it was all a nightmare...it was not...rel pain..rel rel pain.

 

[Suns]

Olic reminds me of Kuyt.

 

[v1rtu4l]

As expected, I also saw a lot of criticism directed towards Ferrara for the DP-Poulsen sub.
Even though I think every one saw that we needed to change our midfield play. As bad as he was, taking off Melo for Poulsen was impossible because that wouldn't have strengthened our midfield.

if you look closer to it, taking off melo without bringing someone on would have even been "strengthening the midfield", so yes, poulsen for melo would have strengthened the midfield in my opinion. my point is, that when you still have melo on the field, the other player actually think they can play the ball to him (only for him to give it straight away and enable the opponent to counter). when our players do not see someone like melo, they would blast the ball away and the opponent would get the ball at least farer away from our goal and not just at our box.

the thing is, as player you have to be able to rely on your team mates ... when i see a ball is played to far away for the opponent to get it and a teammate of me is able to gather it i instantly run to be available for a pass, even when my team mate has not yet touched that ball. but if you have a moron like melo that gets the ball but tries fancy stuff with it and then gives the ball to the opponent you are the idiot for making yourself available for a pass and now missing in defense (because you did trust your teammate to not fuck up that simple task of gathering the ball).

another situation is, when you see melo is marking a player you will not be worried about someone playing the ball to that player, because you think melo marks him, but just look what happened on their second (i think) goal... melo had just to mark one fucking guy and he stood more than 3 metres away from him !

if melo was not on the field another juve player would at least have taken care of that bayernplayer and not foolishy thought melo would already mark him.

melo really is crap right now and hurts both the defensive and the attacking side or our game.

 

[Brixity]

Btw, here's the real ratings for this match IMO


Buffon 4

Caceres 3
Legro 3
Cannavaro 4.5
Grosso 3

Melo 2.5
Marchisio 4
Camoranesi 3

Diego 2.5

Del Piero 3
Trezeguet 4

Agreed

 

[JCK]

I still can't believe what Ivica Olic of all people was doing to us yesterday. I know the guy since he started his career and I never rated him.
He improved a lot lately, though.

Still, his off the ball movement was always his quality. And as boring as I sound, i'll repeat again that we lack that. We desperately lack that, especially without Iaquinta in our attack.

If you have the strength to do it, then watch yesterday's match again.
Olic runs, without purpose at first glance, the other Bayern players see his run and pass the ball. We do it differently. We just kick the ball without thinking where it will go and the attacker runs to catch it. Of course, he'll catch it only once in 30 tries while Olic will get it 9 times out of 10 because he's already running before the ball is passed to him and he already gained advantage over his markers. Plus he's making the defenders tired. Bordeaux were doing the same to us, even fucking Matri and Palermo's attackers were doing the same.

And surprisingly, when you check the stats, expecting that we ran at least 10 kms less than the other team, you'll see that our players cover almost the same kms the opponents do. Well, it's not so surprising maybe when you see that we run without any purpose and we run just for the sake of running.

It's awful, it's disgusting, it's a coach fault. Then again, our off the ball movement has been pretty poor not only this season so it might not be Ferrara's fault only. It's a problem of the Italian football school.

Work on that dammit.

Actually we run chasing either the ball when our players pass it just for the sake of it or chasing the other team. That's why we cover the same distance. And you know what? That chasing is makes the players tired faster and that's why we concede late in the game.

 

[Brixity]

if you look closer to it, taking off melo without bringing someone on would have even been "strengthening the midfield", so yes, poulsen for melo would have strengthened the midfield in my opinion. my point is, that when you still have melo on the field, the other player actually think they can play the ball to him (only for him to give it straight away and enable the opponent to counter). when our players do not see someone like melo, they would blast the ball away and the opponent would get the ball at least farer away from our goal and not just at our box.

the thing is, as player you have to be able to rely on your team mates ... when i see a ball is played to far away for the opponent to get it and a teammate of me is able to gather it i instantly run to be available for a pass, even when my team mate has not yet touched that ball. but if you have a moron like melo that gets the ball but tries fancy stuff with it and then gives the ball to the opponent you are the idiot for making yourself available for a pass and now missing in defense (because you did trust your teammate to not fuck up that simple task of gathering the ball).

another situation is, when you see melo is marking a player you will not be worried about someone playing the ball to that player, because you think melo marks him, but just look what happened on their second (i think) goal... melo had just to mark one fucking guy and he stood more than 3 metres away from him !

if melo was not on the field another juve player would at least have taken care of that bayernplayer and not foolishy thought melo would already mark him.

melo really is crap right now and hurts both the defensive and the attacking side or our game.

What was he used as at Fiorentina? Ive read some articles with Prandelli constantly pointing out that Melo is not a "regista" (not sure my spelling of that is right)

 

[JCK]

Another reason why Chamakh is perfect.

What's so perfect about him if the whole system does not work on running?

 

[RavaneVialli]

As expected, I also saw a lot of criticism directed towards Ferrara for the DP-Poulsen sub.
Even though I think every one saw that we needed to change our midfield play. As bad as he was, taking off Melo for Poulsen was impossible because that wouldn't have strengthened our midfield. That only left Ciro with 2 choices: Alex or Diego. Personally I might have opted to take Diego out, but Alex wasn't really helping the cause either so I can understand it.

Exactly. +rep.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

if you look closer to it, taking off melo without bringing someone on would have even been "strengthening the midfield", so yes, poulsen for melo would have strengthened the midfield in my opinion. my point is, that when you still have melo on the field, the other player actually think they can play the ball to him (only for him to give it straight away and enable the opponent to counter). when our players do not see someone like melo, they would blast the ball away and the opponent would get the ball at least farer away from our goal and not just at our box.

the thing is, as player you have to be able to rely on your team mates ... when i see a ball is played to far away for the opponent to get it and a teammate of me is able to gather it i instantly run to be available for a pass, even when my team mate has not yet touched that ball. but if you have a moron like melo that gets the ball but tries fancy stuff with it and then gives the ball to the opponent you are the idiot for making yourself available for a pass and now missing in defense (because you did trust your teammate to not fuck up that simple task of gathering the ball).

another situation is, when you see melo is marking a player you will not be worried about someone playing the ball to that player, because you think melo marks him, but just look what happened on their second (i think) goal... melo had just to mark one fucking guy and he stood more than 3 metres away from him !

if melo was not on the field another juve player would at least have taken care of that bayernplayer and not foolishy thought melo would already mark him.

melo really is crap right now and hurts both the defensive and the attacking side or our game.

I completely get what you are saying, and to some extent I also agree with it, but we already were outnumbered & outmuscled in the middle. So imo, we needed an extra man in there.

Hence, a straight Melo-Poulsen sub made would have made no sense to me at the time.
This obviously does not mean that I wanted Melo to stay on the pitch though, but taking him off would have cost us 2 subs. At halftime that was just a bit too soon.

But I think we can all agree he does not need to be benched in the coming weeks.





Send his ass to the stands.

 

[Juve_Kosova]

We need a coach who hates Italian football !

 

[Stephan]

Domenech it is then.

 

[v1rtu4l]

What was he used as at Fiorentina? Ive read some articles with Prandelli constantly pointing out that Melo is not a "regista" (not sure my spelling of that is right)

i really don't know since i did not follow him back then =/ but the people that decided to get him should have at least known and told the coach the position he excells in...

I completely get what you are saying, and to some extent I also agree with it, but we already were outnumbered & outmuscled in the middle. So imo, we needed an extra man in there.

so if you did not want to take of melo, because of his position he was supposed to play i have another suggesting of what might have been a better sub then alex-poulsen:

it could only be me or selective awareness, but when i watched the match in the first half (we were playing from left to right) i always saw caceres defend on the right side with bayern players coming over that side and more often than not gaining easy numerical advantage on that side, because camo was nowhere to be seeen. i remember i only saw him once or twice on that side, while they played over that side quite a lot. what was camo thinking ? there had always someone from the middle to come over to our right to help caceres defend, because camo was just not there. i do not need to mention that camo did not defend in the middle too ... imho he was just his usuall lazy diva bitch...

i would have taking him off to make the right side more solid...

 

[Buck Fuddy]

so if you did not want to take of melo, because of his position he was supposed to play i have another suggesting of what might have been a better sub then alex-poulsen:

it could only be me or selective awareness, but when i watched the match in the first half (we were playing from left to right) i always saw caceres defend on the right side with bayern players coming over that side and more often than not gaining easy numerical advantage on that side, because camo was nowhere to be seeen. i remember i only saw him once or twice on that side, while they played over that side quite a lot. what was camo thinking ? there had always someone from the middle to come over to our right to help caceres defend, because camo was just not there. i do not need to mention that camo did not defend in the middle too ... imho he was just his usuall lazy diva bitch...

i would have taking him off to make the right side more solid...

Camo was also quite bad. I probably would not have done what you are saying here because we would have continued to keep playing with 3 in the middle.
In hindsight though, it does look like a viable option.

 

[Ahmed]

We need a coach who hates Italian football !

lol, that sounds perfect

 

[YasoR17]

What's so perfect about him if the whole system does not work on running?

True dat..

 

[Bjerknes]

As expected, I also saw a lot of criticism directed towards Ferrara for the DP-Poulsen sub.
Even though I think every one saw that we needed to change our midfield play. As bad as he was, taking off Melo for Poulsen was impossible because that wouldn't have strengthened our midfield. That only left Ciro with 2 choices: Alex or Diego. Personally I might have opted to take Diego out, but Alex wasn't really helping the cause either so I can understand it.

It's actually the worst possible sub he could have made, not because DP was useful, but because we needed more pressure and possession AWAY from our goal. What should have happened was bringing in Amauri or Seba for DP, and Poulsen in for one of the other midfielders, so that even if we went down a goal we'd still have personnel up top to manage an equalizer. But no, it was not going to happen with just Trezeguet up top.

All that ridiculously retarded substitution did was concede we wanted a draw, which allowed Bayern to get the ball in deeper into our zone through more possession.

This is pussy football and should not be tolerated. PERIOD.

 

[Bjerknes]

Some of you folks have to understand that in defending a lead, it is not always the best option to throw more defenders or defensive players on the pitch. The way the match was going it's much more of a gamble trying to sit back for 45 minutes when the other side has all the possession and pressure.

You do not fight alcoholism with more alcohol, or fight fires with gasoline, you change it up with something OTHER than what was there in the first place. When the problem is possession and pressure, you don't bring in someone who will NOT provide you with either of those.