Iago Falqué (117 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

So what is your alternative?

Keeping the players who do show some promise. No co-owns. Loan only if you don't believe the player will make it at the club but still don't want to lose him.

Italy needs to develop a reserve game system. That is far more sensical than what is in place now. This way, you don't lose control over how you want players to be trained and the guys still feel like part of the team.

 

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[JuveJay]

are they really better? why didn't they win the world youth cup in 2007? i think the core team is maybe better so it's easier to give them the chance. but always loaning players to other teams with a different playing style won't help you. sometimes it does.
in the end it all depends on how much faith has a coach in his players and if he's capable tot introduce the player. we have to much faith in our old guard but i think immobile would have a better impact last year than iaquinta or amauri. but hey he isn't mature yet so just let's loan him next year and maybe when he is 30 he can come back.

Barcelona have a B team in a professional second tier league, we don't.

 

[sebastian]

Barcelona have a B team in a professional second tier league, we don't.

i know but that doesn't chance the fact that they aren't the best youth team. we rely to much on players who have got one good year in a mediocre team(amauri)

 

[JuveJay]

Keeping the players who do show some promise. No co-owns. Loan only if you don't believe the player will make it at the club but still don't want to lose him.

Italy needs to develop a reserve game system. That is far more sensical than what is in place now. This way, you don't lose control over how you want players to be trained and the guys still feel like part of the team.

I agree with point 1, to an extent. If they are not playing they are only benefitting from training up to a point.
I don't agree with point 2 because co-owns are a quick money maker, especially for players who are clearly not going to make the grade.
Point 3 I don't really understand, unless you want to make money from them later.

There is no reserve league and no plans for one, so that is only a hypothetical solution. Of these better players you want to keep, would you have a big squad or use them to replace the average fringe players?

 

[JuveJay]

i know but that doesn't chance the fact that they aren't the best youth team. we rely to much on players who have got one good year in a mediocre team(amauri)

They most probably are, their system has shown that in the last 10 years.

 

[sebastian]

They most probably are, their system has shown that in the last 10 years.

no they give the talented youth a chance the team itself isn't good.

 

[Bjerknes]

I agree with point 1, to an extent. If they are not playing they are only benefitting from training up to a point.
I don't agree with point 2 because co-owns are a quick money maker, especially for players who are clearly not going to make the grade.
Point 3 I don't really understand, unless you want to make money from them later.

There is no reserve league and no plans for one, so that is only a hypothetical solution. Of these better players you want to keep, would you have a big squad or use them to replace the average fringe players?

If you want to co-own players who you think won't make it, then why not just sell them outright? You can lose money through co-owns as well through the bidding process.

The loans would be partly for financial purposes. I could also see loaning someone for wage purposes if they're not youngsters with low salaries.

If it was me, I wouldn't mind having a big squad. But I would incorporate a lot of youth to the team to accompany the stars and experienced servants, with the youngsters training closely with their mentors. Decent base of Italian players as well, like we have (and had) now. The squad would be somewhat similar to Lyon's with regards to having three or four promising youngsters take up the high-end numbers on the squad list.

 

[JBF]

are they really better? why didn't they win the world youth cup in 2007?

Are you saying our reserve team is better than that of Barca because we simply won a tournement that they also took part in?

in the end it all depends on how much faith has a coach in his players and if he's capable tot introduce the player. we have to much faith in our old guard but i think immobile would have a better impact last year than iaquinta or amauri. but hey he isn't mature yet so just let's loan him next year and maybe when he is 30 he can come back.

Exactly. And we've had 3 coaches on the course of three seasons now, none of which gave the nod to the player this thread is supposed to talk about, yet you're so sure he deserves a first team action and that we're completely fucked because we're letting him go even if it's only on loan. Isn't that enough for you?

Italy needs to develop a reserve game system. That is far more sensical than what is in place now. This way, you don't lose control over how you want players to be trained and the guys still feel like part of the team.

I agree. But you're talking about a revolution in the Italian youth system, not about that in Juve. I disagreed when Juve's policy was pointed out as that of failure and idiotic one while I can't see any of that in our current one. Surely the system needs to be changed but that aint Juve's fault now is it. As long as this system is the way it is Juve simply has to live up with it and function the best way they can, which IMO they're doing a good job in so far.

 

[Bjerknes]

I don't see very much good in it. If it was good, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Suns]

I liked Iago, I liked him a lot actually. He was impressive whenever I saw him play for us and if he performs as well as he did when he played for us then they will probably sign him. He's still young and has loads of potential.

I probably should be disappointed about this but after the whole Giovinco saga I've come to terms with the fact that the young and creative wingers have a harder time making it here.

I hope he does well!

 

[sebastian]

Are you saying our reserve team is better than that of Barca because we simply won a tournement that they also took part in?

We didn't win we became second but if you have the best youth team in the world then why aren't you winning something like this? they have great talents but that doesn't make a team.

Exactly. And we've had 3 coaches on the course of three seasons now, none of which gave the nod to the player this thread is supposed to talk about, yet you're so sure he deserves a first team action and that we're completely fucked because we're letting him go even if it's only on loan. Isn't that enough for you?

Our last 3 coaches bought players like grosso, amauri, tiago so let's not talk about how good these coaches are with youth. they think that mediocre old players are better then youth players who maybe are also mediocre but are cheaper. And i don't say we're completly fucked but about the youth policy we are at the moment.


I agree. But you're talking about a revolution in the Italian youth system, not about that in Juve. I disagreed when Juve's policy was pointed out as that of failure and idiotic one while I can't see any of that in our current one. Surely the system needs to be changed but that aint Juve's fault now is it. As long as this system is the way it is Juve simply has to live up with it and function the best way they can, which IMO they're doing a good job in so far.

Why are we building youth centers around the world when we don't use the youth just stop putting money in and buy the players every year.

 

[JBF]

We didn't win we became second but if you have the best youth team in the world then why aren't you winning something like this? they have great talents but that doesn't make a team.

The youth sector aint supposed to create a team but rather good individuals who'll be part of the first team in the future.

It's not like the whole 2nd team is gonna make it anyway, they'll be lucky if 3-4 makes it every season.

Our last 3 coaches bought players like grosso, amauri, tiago so let's not talk about how good these coaches are with youth. they think that mediocre old players are better then youth players who maybe are also mediocre but are cheaper. And i don't say we're completly fucked but about the youth policy we are at the moment.

Our coaches had nothing to do with the players we bought, they were all down to Secco with the exception of Poupou here who Ranieri opted to have instead of Alonso

Why are we building youth centers around the world when we don't use the youth just stop putting money in and buy the players every year.

We've youth centers?

That's the first time I've heard of it really, surely we've those Kid Summer courses Juve plans every year but other than that and the Scout system I doubt we've any projects outside Italy.

 

[JuveJay]

If you want to co-own players who you think won't make it, then why not just sell them outright? You can lose money through co-owns as well through the bidding process.

The loans would be partly for financial purposes. I could also see loaning someone for wage purposes if they're not youngsters with low salaries.

If it was me, I wouldn't mind having a big squad. But I would incorporate a lot of youth to the team to accompany the stars and experienced servants, with the youngsters training closely with their mentors. Decent base of Italian players as well, like we have (and had) now. The squad would be somewhat similar to Lyon's with regards to having three or four promising youngsters take up the high-end numbers on the squad list.

It's actually difficult to sell players outright, as we have found out. The lesser players often don't want to go to Serie B or C permanently, even. It's true you can lose money, in the blind auction for example, although I believe that if you value the player then you should pay the market value for that 50%. That's the whole point of it, the gamble. Otherwise a co-ownership is just like a loan of sorts in financial terms, the registration of a player can deviate in value based on how they have played over the season. Imagine we sell 50% of Giovinco's registration to Parma for €3.5m and he has a great season. We might have to buy it back for €5m-€6m, but he would come back as a much more valuable asset to us both on and off the pitch. If he goes to Parma for the same fee and has a poor season, then his value will only stay the same or decrease, so we have value for money there from his initial half sale, and chances are we won't want him back anyway. As you say, the ideal solution is to give the player enough chances with us, that way if he doesn't cut it we don't have regrets. But then it can simply come down to coaches, at some point a talented player has to play first team football somewhere. I'd rather see Iago and Giovinco going for €3m and playing regularly than sat in the stands here.

 

[JuveJay]

For me our youth system is to firstly try to provide players for the first team, that has to be the plan. But secondly, it is inevitable that at least 95% of players will not be a first team player, so it is also used to make money. It'd be interesting to see how much has been made in eventual sales from our youth system in the last 10 years for example.

 

[JCK]

Actually these are probably the conditions these young players join the academy with, it is all long decided and agreed upon that such scenario would eventually happen when the player starts growing.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I'm still waiting to see a youngster who looks good enough to play for Juve, but is sent out on loans and end up starring for another big club.

I have asked the question many times before: Name me one of our previous youth talents that turned out to be good enough to play for us, but who we lost because we never gave him a chance.

I'm still eagerly awaiting an answer. (Well Perotta was mentioned, but I'm not quite sure that he's a good example.)

Italy needs to develop a reserve game system. That is far more sensical than what is in place now. This way, you don't lose control over how you want players to be trained and the guys still feel like part of the team.

That's the only solution. But don't hold your breath.

I believe the Primavera system was set up back in the day in order to give the youth more & earlier chances at first team football. But it has backfired completely.

 

[Hust]

Shouldn't this thread be closed? We shouldn't open up player threads unless they are at least 24 years old...

 

[Lucky Luke]

FIGC Vice-President Demetrio Albertini suggests creating a reserve league in Serie A to prevent young talent escaping Italy.

“In Serie A, B, the youth teams and even Lega Pro there are too many foreign players,” warned Albertini in La Repubblica newspaper.

FI

for those who mentioned earlier that a reserve league is what we need

 

[Lo-Pan]

Can anyone tell me how our youth team has fared in the youth championship and youth tournaments over the last year or three??? I know only a little of the tournament in which Daud scored prolifically....

I mean...is winning the viareggio often, truly a sign of a very talented youth them?

Looking down the list of winners of that competition, I see the odd foreign club, but none of the decent teams from other european leagues.

 

[Lucky Luke]

well we have won the viareggio tournament 2-3 times in row but we havent won the primavera championship since 05/06 (primavera with criscito/marchisio/de ceglie/lanzafame/giovinco etc)

i think we have one of the strongest and well organised youth academies in italy if not the world...it's just that we fuck it up when our youth products are sent on loan on co-own deals...barca is a role model and you should follow it