Greek Election (6 Viewers)

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
That's the concern you have to accept with every single democratic process.
You're right. It's just that I'm less inclined to trust the masses judgment when it comes to complex financial and economic decisions like this one.

they are scared, angry, and frustrated; hardly the right state of mind to make intelligent decisions.
True.
 

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Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Complex financial and economic decisions should be made by people who actually understand it. Not a population thats largely uneducated in the matter
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,441
Not to disagree, but is there a potential for a wisdom of the crowds effect here? That only in aggregate to a multi-point complex problem can you sometimes optimize for the better solutions.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Complex financial and economic decisions should be made by people who actually understand it. Not a population thats largely uneducated in the matter
And you decides who actually understands these decisions? Economics isn't hard science, it's as much politics and opinion as it is objective quantifable knowledge.
 
Jul 1, 2010
26,336
Complex financial and economic decisions should be made by people who actually understand it. Not a population thats largely uneducated in the matter
Agreed, the government should have rejected the bailout terms outright rather than put it to the people.

They only held a referendum to obtain more legitimacy and wasted a week in the process.

- - - Updated - - -

And you decides who actually understands these decisions? Economics isn't hard science, it's as much politics and opinion as it is objective quantifable knowledge.
People from the ECB and the IMF are the kind of people who pretend that Economics is like a hard science.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,441
Agreed, the government should have rejected the bailout terms outright rather than put it to the people.

They only held a referendum to obtain more legitimacy and wasted a week in the process.
True. More for show for internal politics than anything.
 

lgorTudor

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2015
32,949
They voted "no" because Tsipras promised to seal a magic deal with the EU within 48 hours? Am I right or is the German nazi propaganda in my head again? ::hustini2::
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,436
they are scared, angry, and frustrated; hardly the right state of mind to make intelligent decisions.
There is no clear answer as there's no history of repetitive actions in these cases. So whether or not they have a cold head there's nobody to say 'hey, I know the right answer'. Troika/IMF are nothing but huge evil knocking the door. Combined with a shit state it's nothing but a bad thing.

I'm not saying this will solve their problems, though. But sticking with austerity and IMF credit line is nothing but digging a deeper problem.

Iceland did good when they told IMF and bankers to fu#k off. :p
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,508
This is some crazy foreshadowing.
Yes indeed, sadly.

Complex financial and economic decisions should be made by people who actually understand it. Not a population thats largely uneducated in the matter
Not to disagree, but is there a potential for a wisdom of the crowds effect here? That only in aggregate to a multi-point complex problem can you sometimes optimize for the better solutions.
And you decides who actually understands these decisions? Economics isn't hard science, it's as much politics and opinion as it is objective quantifable knowledge.
The problem is the majority of the public doesn't understand basic economics, which means they will vote or argue for the solution that is either most pleasant to them or the one purported by the powers that be. If you asked the American public whether they should be given free education or tax breaks for small businesses, they will of course choose the former. But what they don't understand is that the money has to come from somewhere and governments can't spend more than they receive in taxes forever.

Nope. This is a stupidity of the masses game and the politicians/banksters know that.

Agreed, the government should have rejected the bailout terms outright rather than put it to the people.

They only held a referendum to obtain more legitimacy and wasted a week in the process.

- - - Updated - - -



People from the ECB and the IMF are the kind of people who pretend that Economics is like a hard science.
Because they engage in fraud and wealth poaching.
 
Jul 1, 2010
26,336
Yes indeed, sadly.







The problem is the majority of the public doesn't understand basic economics, which means they will vote or argue for the solution that is either most pleasant to them or the one purported by the powers that be. If you asked the American public whether they should be given free education or tax breaks for small businesses, they will of course choose the former. But what they don't understand is that the money has to come from somewhere and governments can't spend more than they receive in taxes forever.

Nope. This is a stupidity of the masses game and the politicians/banksters know that.



Because they engage in fraud and wealth poaching.
:agree:

I'm not an admirer of Piketty but he's right on this:

https://medium.com/@gavinschalliol/thomas-piketty-germany-has-never-repaid-7b5e7add6fff
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,508
By the way, markets were looking to come unglued earlier but now they look fine. Seems like the Chinese plunge protection team jumped in with the West to buy some futures so everything will be OK now. Carry on.

This world is in desperate need of a Grexit but even then they will prop the market up.
 

Salvo

J
Moderator
Dec 17, 2007
61,271
Whether the right decision to put it to the people or not at least we can admit it has been some damn good theatre.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
Tsipras presented this referendum like an opportunity for the Greek people to fight in a new war vs Germany.
Left gvrm fancy waging war vs nazis and they try to create a fasist threat even when its not there.
They claimed that the austerity measures imposed by Germany is the new type of war that is coming in our days and its once again Greece's responsibility to say the big NO, just like it happened in the WW2, when tiny Greece was the first country to say No, won a first victory vs the AXIS, that eventually helped to turn tables.
They indeed have promised that the ECB is forced to provide monitization and they will, because there are agreements between Greece and EU that cannot be breaked.
the number 2 of the current Greek gvrmn claimed that Greece's ace lies in the fact that if EU doesnt respect its part of written rules, Greece wont respect them either and erase from her part any debt,
in that case, EU loses 250billions and therefore, they will step back, in the end, as long as we are not intimidated and believe the opposition which is controlled by the Germans.
And the ppl actually believed that $h1t... They also believed prime minister Tsipras that everyones deposements are guaranteed personally by him and in 2 days, there will be a deal!
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,334
Tsipras presented this referendum like an opportunity for the Greek people to fight in a new war vs Germany.
Left gvrm fancy waging war vs nazis and they try to create a fasist threat even when its not there.
They claimed that the austerity measures imposed by Germany is the new type of war that is coming in our days and its once again Greece's responsibility to say the big NO, just like it happened in the WW2, when tiny Greece was the first country to say No, won a first victory vs the AXIS, that eventually helped to turn tables.
They indeed have promised that the ECB is forced to provide monitization and they will, because there are agreements between Greece and EU that cannot be breaked.
the number 2 of the current Greek gvrmn claimed that Greece's ace lies in the fact that if EU doesnt respect its part of written rules, Greece wont respect them either and erase from her part any debt,
in that case, EU loses 250billions and therefore, they will step back, in the end, as long as we are not intimidated and believe the opposition which is controlled by the Germans.
And the ppl actually believed that $h1t... They also believed prime minister Tsipras that everyones deposements are guaranteed personally by him and in 2 days, there will be a deal!

i really feel for you man, democracy really sucks
 

radekas

( ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)
Aug 26, 2009
19,241
The EU hired a special task force to prevent people from using ATMs in Greece. This has to stop.... United Nations where are you?













































 

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