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Giuseppe Marotta (133 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
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let me clarify some things :
1. I'm no cronios, I give marotta some credits, but max I can give him is 25% compared to much bigger percentage to the coaching team.
2. about the left side position in our squad; it take marotta almost 3 years to finally trying to solve the problem in the squad, and even then, objectively, marotta is only doing some half assed job there.
because
a. it doesn't matter what asamoah said that he was willing to try; to the whole world he was a CM, did you believe that granpa fergie thought that he would play asamoah as left winger/left back in united? if you believe that then you are without hope in this discussion.
that's like saying, if leali come forward and said : oh I can try being a striker at juve, and boom he became our top scorer in CL, won us treble etc, that's an amazing miracle, but can marotta goes forward and claim that he was the top striker and all of us should be thankful to marotta? everyone else with their right mind will ridicule marotta, that worked right, but that was kind of miracle than the fruit of marotta hardwork.
b. some of us will doubt marotta would've bought us left sided players if chiellini didn't injured and asamoah doesn't participate in african cup. that's a question worth pondering; after all it took him almost 3 years to do so and there were times when we badly need left sided players.
3. about prestige, I don't fully agree with cronios, but he does have a point there; marotta kind of trolled arsenal there, that's a gamble on his behalf because if someone did to me what marotta did, I'd rather stay away from him next time.
also don't forget, some people will also see marotta as someone who promised yet failed to deliver, not just once but 3 times already (of course, the top striker thing); this isn't good for his reputation, oh believe it, in business world this have some impact.
4. as I've said in the past, last summer it became clear that marotta didn't have plan B regarding the top striker target despite him having a whole summer, how else can you explain that? he trolled arsenal for their captain but ended up with arsenal reject after trying to hijack berbatov and pissed of another party we had some interest with (fio for jovetic)
I tell you this, I'd accept marotta for example if he came forward, being gentle admitted he has failed and actually said to the press that juve should've utilize boakye; than wasting money and effort for bendtner and berbatov! it's better for him to beg conte to use boakye than what he did.
5. on the wage bill people keep mentioning about.
obviously it mean for something, however marotta isn't the head of accounting, c'mon people, the board, ceo and economic division are the one who set the rules on that, based on their job.
marotta simply follow the rules.
did he succeed in bringing the wage bill down? YES, it's rather simple job actually (cut the wage bill), but wage of course doesn't always equal quality and performance and here's this source of discussion come from
6. players performances always depended on the coaching team, only a moron who doesn't know anything about sports can say that who did the transfer have much to do with player performances.
has marotta improved? I'd say quite yes, although not as much as I hoped for; but I will strongly oppose the notion that marotta should be equally praised as conte and his coaching team for juve performances.
and I say it again, as bad as secco was, I believe our past coaching teams failed us way more than secco and first year marotta failed us. That was the reason we ended up 7th twice!
1. I'm no cronios, I give marotta some credits, but max I can give him is 25% compared to much bigger percentage to the coaching team.
2. about the left side position in our squad; it take marotta almost 3 years to finally trying to solve the problem in the squad, and even then, objectively, marotta is only doing some half assed job there.
because
a. it doesn't matter what asamoah said that he was willing to try; to the whole world he was a CM, did you believe that granpa fergie thought that he would play asamoah as left winger/left back in united? if you believe that then you are without hope in this discussion.
that's like saying, if leali come forward and said : oh I can try being a striker at juve, and boom he became our top scorer in CL, won us treble etc, that's an amazing miracle, but can marotta goes forward and claim that he was the top striker and all of us should be thankful to marotta? everyone else with their right mind will ridicule marotta, that worked right, but that was kind of miracle than the fruit of marotta hardwork.
b. some of us will doubt marotta would've bought us left sided players if chiellini didn't injured and asamoah doesn't participate in african cup. that's a question worth pondering; after all it took him almost 3 years to do so and there were times when we badly need left sided players.
3. about prestige, I don't fully agree with cronios, but he does have a point there; marotta kind of trolled arsenal there, that's a gamble on his behalf because if someone did to me what marotta did, I'd rather stay away from him next time.
also don't forget, some people will also see marotta as someone who promised yet failed to deliver, not just once but 3 times already (of course, the top striker thing); this isn't good for his reputation, oh believe it, in business world this have some impact.
4. as I've said in the past, last summer it became clear that marotta didn't have plan B regarding the top striker target despite him having a whole summer, how else can you explain that? he trolled arsenal for their captain but ended up with arsenal reject after trying to hijack berbatov and pissed of another party we had some interest with (fio for jovetic)
I tell you this, I'd accept marotta for example if he came forward, being gentle admitted he has failed and actually said to the press that juve should've utilize boakye; than wasting money and effort for bendtner and berbatov! it's better for him to beg conte to use boakye than what he did.
5. on the wage bill people keep mentioning about.
obviously it mean for something, however marotta isn't the head of accounting, c'mon people, the board, ceo and economic division are the one who set the rules on that, based on their job.
marotta simply follow the rules.
did he succeed in bringing the wage bill down? YES, it's rather simple job actually (cut the wage bill), but wage of course doesn't always equal quality and performance and here's this source of discussion come from
6. players performances always depended on the coaching team, only a moron who doesn't know anything about sports can say that who did the transfer have much to do with player performances.
has marotta improved? I'd say quite yes, although not as much as I hoped for; but I will strongly oppose the notion that marotta should be equally praised as conte and his coaching team for juve performances.
and I say it again, as bad as secco was, I believe our past coaching teams failed us way more than secco and first year marotta failed us. That was the reason we ended up 7th twice!
bring out the gimp.
I mean, the gifs
I mean, the gifs
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Some of the above is reasonable. And interesting...Beppe didn't purchase Asamoah as a LWB/LM. I assume we did actually target players for the LWB/LM position, and we simply didn't them for reasons unknown to us. The reserve options for that position may have been available, but Conte may well have said 'NO, we go with what we have...'..or even...'NO...we go with what we have, and I have a feeling Asamoah could play there'. We did sign 2 CMs in Asamoah and Pogba, and also retained Marrone. the CM is so well covered, with our starting trio of such ahigh standard, that both Marrone and Asamoah have happily played elsewhere. Asamoah playing on the flank is not in any way akin to Leali playing as a CF. He was dynamic, tenacious, full of running when he played CM for Udinese, and he is pretty much the same player now, albeit with a different set of rules regarding his positioning.
We signed Ziegler to help solve our LB/LWB woes. He was always a solid player, never amazing, but rarely awful. It appears that he fell foul of Conte. Which can't be blamed on Beppe, for the deal was likely put in place before Conte was appointed. If anything, blame Conte for that one...
I'm not sure I have read of Beppe promising a top striker. he speaks more along the lines of wanting one, of taking us to the next level.
As for the wage bill and dead wood removal, he has done as good a job as anyone could do other than Moggi, who is a crook by trade, but still a man many of us would welcome back with open arms.
I have some agreement in regards to the suggestion of the management failing before Conte arrived. Some of the players we had were very talented. Tiago, for example, was never a poor player in England or France, yet for us, he was dire. Amauri was simply an awful awful transfer...Diego was/is a high class player, as was/is Melo, yet both need very strong management if they are to produce their best. At the same time, whilst Conte takes huge credit, its not moronic to put some blame/credit on Beppe for the players whose transfer to Juve he engineers/suggests to Conte, for players generally have a certain capacity. Some managers can improve players, some managers can squeeze more determination to succeed out of players, but there is always a limit to what players can be. The way you put it is not far of suggesting every player could be Messi, just with the right management. And its that which would be moronic and suggest no understanding of football.
Beppe was given an agenda. On that list were - the huge wage bill, the relatively high average age of the squad, the youth team set-up, A BUDGET...and much more no doubt. It may have taken a year or three, but last season we were one of the best teams in Europe. we went the whole season unbeaten, played glorious football, filled our stadium to capacity every game, won the league...now even after losing our manager from matchdays, we topped our champions league group, a very tough champions league group at that, we are 8 points clear at the top of serie A, our youth setup is bristling with potential, many of our loaned/co-owned players are doing very well, and all we seem to lack presently, are...a world class LWB to challenge/back-up Asamoah and a world class striker whose specializes in scoring goals. Other than these two facets, we are in amazingly good shape both on and off the field. Whichever way you look at it, Beppe deserves some credit for this. Bonucci...Barzagli...Pirlo...Vidal...Pogba...Asamoah...Buoy...Appelt...Padovan..Rugani...Magnusson...He has made some poor signings, but also made the signings which played a huge part in winning the league and creating the team which is now dominating at home and fighting proudly, majestically in europe, and he has also presided over signing one of the world's most sought after young midfielders, and plenty of other even younger gems...
I don't blame him for failing to get Van Persie...Dzeko...Cavani..Jovetic. Van persie wanted $$$$ first and foremost. Dzeko situation was odd, with Krasic and the non-ey rulings. Cavani would cost stupid money and Jovetic is a loyal lad (for now).
We signed Ziegler to help solve our LB/LWB woes. He was always a solid player, never amazing, but rarely awful. It appears that he fell foul of Conte. Which can't be blamed on Beppe, for the deal was likely put in place before Conte was appointed. If anything, blame Conte for that one...
I'm not sure I have read of Beppe promising a top striker. he speaks more along the lines of wanting one, of taking us to the next level.
As for the wage bill and dead wood removal, he has done as good a job as anyone could do other than Moggi, who is a crook by trade, but still a man many of us would welcome back with open arms.
I have some agreement in regards to the suggestion of the management failing before Conte arrived. Some of the players we had were very talented. Tiago, for example, was never a poor player in England or France, yet for us, he was dire. Amauri was simply an awful awful transfer...Diego was/is a high class player, as was/is Melo, yet both need very strong management if they are to produce their best. At the same time, whilst Conte takes huge credit, its not moronic to put some blame/credit on Beppe for the players whose transfer to Juve he engineers/suggests to Conte, for players generally have a certain capacity. Some managers can improve players, some managers can squeeze more determination to succeed out of players, but there is always a limit to what players can be. The way you put it is not far of suggesting every player could be Messi, just with the right management. And its that which would be moronic and suggest no understanding of football.
Beppe was given an agenda. On that list were - the huge wage bill, the relatively high average age of the squad, the youth team set-up, A BUDGET...and much more no doubt. It may have taken a year or three, but last season we were one of the best teams in Europe. we went the whole season unbeaten, played glorious football, filled our stadium to capacity every game, won the league...now even after losing our manager from matchdays, we topped our champions league group, a very tough champions league group at that, we are 8 points clear at the top of serie A, our youth setup is bristling with potential, many of our loaned/co-owned players are doing very well, and all we seem to lack presently, are...a world class LWB to challenge/back-up Asamoah and a world class striker whose specializes in scoring goals. Other than these two facets, we are in amazingly good shape both on and off the field. Whichever way you look at it, Beppe deserves some credit for this. Bonucci...Barzagli...Pirlo...Vidal...Pogba...Asamoah...Buoy...Appelt...Padovan..Rugani...Magnusson...He has made some poor signings, but also made the signings which played a huge part in winning the league and creating the team which is now dominating at home and fighting proudly, majestically in europe, and he has also presided over signing one of the world's most sought after young midfielders, and plenty of other even younger gems...
I don't blame him for failing to get Van Persie...Dzeko...Cavani..Jovetic. Van persie wanted $$$$ first and foremost. Dzeko situation was odd, with Krasic and the non-ey rulings. Cavani would cost stupid money and Jovetic is a loyal lad (for now).
I no longer blame him for not being able to sign any of them, but I highly dislike him for making himself and the club like a clown, how could he ended up with panic trying for berbatov and getting bendtner? 
and one more thing that I can have an agreement with cronios is that marotta can't sell for decent price, I want to see at what price we will sell one of quaq/matri, funnily part of my reason is that milan will sell pato
if marotta can't sell quaq/matri at higher price than pato then
and I read from this forum Iaq and Grosso are still ours? lol? is that true?
and one more thing that I can have an agreement with cronios is that marotta can't sell for decent price, I want to see at what price we will sell one of quaq/matri, funnily part of my reason is that milan will sell pato
if marotta can't sell quaq/matri at higher price than pato then and I read from this forum Iaq and Grosso are still ours? lol? is that true?
Slowly but surely @Jem83 and @Nzoric.
Converting our enemies to the ways of the GREAT MAN.
If it doesn't go to that, then you have to choose between me and B81. And Jem, if I'm not part of The Society, I'd take all the benefits with me.
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