Giuseppe Marotta (85 Viewers)

[baggio]

But you are going off of sales prices that are 10 years old.


Honestly, it is an unfair way to prove anyone's argument in this matter unless you count for inflation.

Baiocco for example was purchased for 7.2 million back in 2002. Who knows what that value would translate to today?

True Serge. But lets also consider that Baiocco as a cost/value equation was more the exception than the rule. Athirson and the like cost us close to nothing. Esnaider I remember cost us a bit, but guys like Paramatti, Gladstone, Mirkovic, cost us a lot less in proportion overall to the amounts we pay today. In the same vein, he got us guys like Viera and Zlatan for 14m and 17m respectively. Those figures were at the time excellent figures for the kind of inflation prevalent in the market, set off largely by the Galacticos era at Madrid, post Zidane's arrival.

 

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[j0ker]

Fine take Del Piero out of that list, what about Davids, Nedved, Gigi, Zidane and all the rest of brilliant players that we had under him. His last big signing was Zlatan and we all have seen how brilliant he was and still is in serie A.

Nobody is saying that Moggi didn't get us great players, my point is that when he is in question no-one mentions his flops but when we are talking about Marotta guys like Baggio give credit to everyone but Marotta and constantly bashes him mentioning Martinez, Elia, Motta etc. Double standards.

And LOL @ hating Moggi.

 

[baggio]

No one is questioning his brilliant work, but the way that you, and others make it sound, one would be led to believe that this guy made no mistakes whatsoever, and in reality, he made more than a few.

This is not about being perfect. Nobody is. Moggi had his flaws. Inevitably comparisons will be made because Moggi will for the longest time be the benchmark at Juve for Marrotta or anybody that follows. Judging Marrotta purely on his merit, we definitely have room for improvement which starts this summer according to me. A scudetto victory cannot disguise his mid table mentality. He's a bit of a hoarder, specialising in making a lot of deals for average players in terms of the money he spends. The next and obvious question will be, who do we replace him with? Our title winning run has bought him time and created a platform where he can have little in the form of excuses this summer. So that question doesnt make sense or need answering till we see him carry out the most crucial market that perhaps sets the tone for the next decade or so.

 

[v1rtu4l]

I think its safe to say that he proved us naysayers wrong by winning the scudetto.

yeah, frickin funny that the naysayers always have "the next season ... this time without excuses!" while everything went according to plan and no one could have thought of a better end.

 

[KB824]

This is not about being perfect. Nobody is. Moggi had his flaws. Inevitably comparisons will be made because Moggi will for the longest time be the benchmark at Juve for Marrotta or anybody that follows. Judging Marrotta purely on his merit, we definitely have room for improvement which starts this summer according to me. A scudetto victory cannot disguise his mid table mentality. He's a bit of a hoarder, specialising in making a lot of deals for average players in terms of the money he spends. The next and obvious question will be, who do we replace him with? Our title winning run has bought him time and created a platform where he can have little in the form of excuses this summer. So that question doesnt make sense or need answering till we see him carry out the most crucial market that perhaps sets the tone for the next decade or so.

If that is the case, then why is evferyone assuming that he will be a failure in this summer mercato, which hasn't even started yet?

I think that we can all agree that this summer is the make or break mercato for him, but everyone is just writing him off as failing when, keep in mind, he had totaly different objectives going into this past season.

I can't just come to the conclusion that he is going to be a failure this year. Different sets of circumstances now. And this whole mid-table mentality that everyone automatically assumes that he has. Were Vidal, Lichtseiner, Pirlo, and Vucinic mid table quality players? I would tend to think not.

 

[Oggy]

True Serge. But lets also consider that Baiocco as a cost/value equation was more the exception than the rule. Athirson and the like cost us close to nothing. Esnaider I remember cost us a bit, but guys like Paramatti, Gladstone, Mirkovic, cost us a lot less in proportion overall to the amounts we pay today. In the same vein, he got us guys like Viera and Zlatan for 14m and 17m respectively. Those figures were at the time excellent figures for the kind of inflation prevalent in the market, set off largely by the Galacticos era at Madrid, post Zidane's arrival.

If you go by your theory than Zlatan was Capello's purchase. In his book Zlatan said that Moggi didn't want him because he thought that he couldn't play with Del Piero. In the end there was a meeting between Zlatan, his agent, Moggi and Capello where Capello said that he doesn't see a problem in playing Alex and Zlatan, and then Moggi signed him. So are we gonna say that if there wasn't Capello we would never have Zlatan?

Also another interesting about Moggi is that he also wanted Del Neri before we got Capello, at least according to rumors. Than should I be ignorant and say that Capello wasn't Moggi signing, and that he was brought by Agnelli. The same logic worked on Conte's case...

I'm not saying that Moggi wasn't great, he was more than that. But no matter who we appoint as a GM we would still hear about Moggi's deals. Hell, even if Moggi returns, I'm sure that would say how he lost it and how he isn't the same guru as he was.

Marotta did solid job, he seems to have a good communication with Conte and they understand each other, and that's what is important. Also Pazienza left because he didn't want to sit on the bench and Padoin was brought to fill the gap on the bench. Also he is versatile and Conte knew him from his Atalanta days, so those factors should be included when we talk about his signing. And no matter what, I think that Ziegler was a solid back-up and should been kept.

 

[Primitive]

Less than 20m. All of Moggi's flops or at least a majority of them had cost us close to nothing.

---------- Post added 16.05.2012 at 02:04 ----------



So what you're saying is Pirlo would anyway make this team win the scudetto? Even if Conte was stubborn enough to stick with the 424 and not have had the players he preferred? Ok. I'd like to buy your theory, but no thank you.

Well i didn't said that you are twisting my words. What i said was this team will not be crowned as champions without pirlo and i'm pretty sure about that. So many key passes and build up play from him. If our strikers were clinical enough he would have had 20-30 assists not 13. marchisio, vidal, pirlo all played their part in the triumph, but what pirlo provides is very rare...
P.S. it's irrelevant who's right or wrong we lifted the scudetto that's important

 

[baggio]

If that is the case, then why is evferyone assuming that he will be a failure in this summer mercato, which hasn't even started yet?

I think that we can all agree that this summer is the make or break mercato for him, but everyone is just writing him off as failing when, keep in mind, he had totaly different objectives going into this past season.

I can't just come to the conclusion that he is going to be a failure this year. Different sets of circumstances now. And this whole mid-table mentality that everyone automatically assumes that he has. Were Vidal, Lichtseiner, Pirlo, and Vucinic mid table quality players? I would tend to think not.

I think a big reason for the lack of faith in Beppe is, because this season he is goingto have to do stuff that he's never done before. That is, buy at least one top quality, world class player at a minimum. I personally think we should get at least two under the circumstances. Lots of players available to trade, a decent budget and a very big void left behind the biggest player in the club's history. None of Marrotta's excuses last season will apply.

Personally, I'd be grateful to be proven wrong because it will help Marrotta understand the club a little better and serve him in the long run, hopefully for a decent innings at the club. Also for the Lichts, Pirlos and Vidals you have the Bonnuccis, Barzaglis, Pepes, Borriellos who would fit any mid-table contingent. Ironically, all those players proved to be stars thanks to the Count.

 

[v1rtu4l]

Fine take Del Piero out of that list, what about Davids, Nedved, Gigi, Zidane and all the rest of brilliant players that we had under him. His last big signing was Zlatan and we all have seen how brilliant he was and still is in serie A.

yeah, you can always argue with your selective memory, but if you would have been a juve fan in the time of zlatan in a bianconeri jersey you would have known that he was a major flop for us and was very very annoying to watch because he did not score much.
zlatans statistic for us in his last season was 35 games, 7 goalsand 1 assist in the whole serie a 2005/2006 campaign!

so you probably would give moggi credit for the signing of henry, because he was a good footballer after he was with us, right ?

 

[baggio]

If you go by your theory than Zlatan was Capello's purchase. In his book Zlatan said that Moggi didn't want him because he thought that he couldn't play with Del Piero. In the end there was a meeting between Zlatan, his agent, Moggi and Capello where Capello said that he doesn't see a problem in playing Alex and Zlatan, and then Moggi signed him. So are we gonna say that if there wasn't Capello we would never have Zlatan?

Also another interesting about Moggi is that he also wanted Del Neri before we got Capello, at least according to rumors. Than should I be ignorant and say that Capello wasn't Moggi signing, and that he was brought by Agnelli. The same logic worked on Conte's case...

I'm not saying that Moggi wasn't great, he was more than that. But no matter who we appoint as a GM we would still hear about Moggi's deals. Hell, even if Moggi returns, I'm sure that would say how he lost it and how he isn't the same guru as he was.

Marotta did solid job, he seems to have a good communication with Conte and they understand each other, and that's what is important. Also Pazienza left because he didn't want to sit on the bench and Padoin was brought to fill the gap on the bench. Also he is versatile and Conte knew him from his Atalanta days, so those factors should be included when we talk about his signing. And no matter what, I think that Ziegler was a solid back-up and should been kept.

A) Moggi was never after Del Neri. He was after Guidolin by his own admission, a coach I rate as one of the best in Italy. And by a twist of fate he convinced Capello in a couple of meetings that were jot even intended. Such was the magic of the man. But again, this is not about Moggi, I didn't bring him up in my initial argument, I was only addressing a point Lion had raised about Moggi.

B) Zlatan was a Capello favourite but Moggi himself made the deal go through on his terms. He never got taken for a ride or was at the beck and call of another club. In Moggi's defense, those were different times. We were able to dictate our ways on others. Marrotta doesn't have the benefit of that, but in the same measure, he is wrong to assume that we cannot sign world class players. And this year, he will have no excuse.

C) It's not about Pazienzas and Zieglers. It's about how many players like them came and went. I'm afraid its a trend that would've continued had our coach not had clear ideas. Conte knows exactly what he wants. Like I said, if it wasn't for him, Bonnucci and Pepe wouldn't have been here is season, exactly one season after being bought. Think about it, we've bought 20 plus players in Marrotta's reign at the club. The most important thing for any big club is continuity and Marrotta's methods were hurting us more than helping us. He ws in the same position last year when he hired Del Neri, how come we finished 7th? I'll tell you. Its because we didn't buy players that were needed. We bought players who were easily available. How else can you explain a 442 without fullbacks and wingers? Lack of vision.

 

[JuveJay]

Fine take Del Piero out of that list, what about Davids, Nedved, Gigi, Zidane and all the rest of brilliant players that we had under him. His last big signing was Zlatan and we all have seen how brilliant he was and still is in serie A.

Yes we know he signed lots of great players, also lots of duds, he was in charge of a top club for 22 fricking years. Whoever started the Marotta comparison deserves a slap. Oh it was baggio, no comment

 

[Oggy]

A) Moggi was never after Del Neri. He was after Guidolin by his own admission, a coach I rate as one of the best in Italy. And by a twist of fate he convinced Capello in a couple of meetings that were jot even intended. Such was the magic of the man. But again, this is not about Moggi, I didn't bring him up in my initial argument, I was only addressing a point Lion had raised about Moggi.

B) Zlatan was a Capello favourite but Moggi himself made the deal go through on his terms. He never got taken for a ride or was at the beck and call of another club. In Moggi's defense, those were different times. We were able to dictate our ways on others. Marrotta doesn't have the benefit of that, but in the same measure, he is wrong to assume that we cannot sign world class players. And this year, he will have no excuse.

C) It's not about Pazienzas and Zieglers. It's about how many players like them came and went. I'm afraid its a trend that would've continued had our coach not had clear ideas. Conte knows exactly what he wants. Like I said, if it wasn't for him, Bonnucci and Pepe wouldn't have been here is season, exactly one season after being bought. Think about it, we've bought 20 plus players in Marrotta's reign at the club. The most important thing for any big club is continuity and Marrotta's methods were hurting us more than helping us. He ws in the same position last year when he hired Del Neri, how come we finished 7th? I'll tell you. Its because we didn't buy players that were needed. We bought players who were easily available. How else can you explain a 442 without fullbacks and wingers? Lack of vision.

B) Did you even read what I wrote, Moggi didn't want Zlatan, it was Capello who wanted him and Moggi brought him. You said that Vidal was Conte's wish even though Marotta wanted Inler. So why not give a credit to Marotta who made a deal for Vidal and also for many other players...

C) Yeah he brought a lot of players, but we really needed rejuvenation of the team and we were in transition. After we appointed Ferrara we got rid of almost every winger we had (thanks to Secco) and than after he was fired we again decided to change our formation (442) and we needed wingers again. So he had to buy at least two new winger and improve others positions as we were in really bad state. He made mistakes, but he also needed to fix the mess that Secco left. You know it's good that he prepared possible transfers for Bonucci and Pepe because Conte could have said that he don't need them. TBH it shows that he only was thinking ahead. He never sold them, he just had a plan B IMO. I'll repeat myself again, for me it's obvious that Marotta is working closely with the coach and he brings players that coach wants or at least similar players. Did he made mistakes, I'll repeat again, YES. But also he deserves credit. It's not like everything good was brought by Conte, and everything bad by Marotta. Also most of the players we have now were brought by Marotta, so guy surely knows things.

Of course this mercato will be crucial for us, we have fundation now, all we need is an upgrade that will set us on the top. Can Marotta pull it? I think he can. Will he bring more than one truly WC player? I don't think so. We will probably see few (two) solid players like Vidal and one WC and that's what we all need, and always was Juve's way. We never used to buy WC players, we were the ones who made players WC.

P.S. I'm sorry for grammar mistake or for some words that are missing, I have weird habit to skip writing some words, for unknown reason

 

[Juve_fanatic]

comparing Marrota with Moggi Some of you people are really crazy. You waste a perfectly good forum space.

 

[baggio]

Yes we know he signed lots of great players, also lots of duds, he was in charge of a top club for 22 fricking years. Whoever started the Marotta comparison deserves a slap. Oh it was baggio, no comment

Skip back two pages for your answer. Biatch.

 

[JuveJay]

Maybe some other day I have trouble sleeping.

 

[Zacheryah]

yeah, frickin funny that the naysayers always have "the next season ... this time without excuses!" while everything went according to plan and no one could have thought of a better end.

nothing else need to be said here.


and baggio, before you talk, first check on what objectives marotta was given, your answers are full of shit you made up

 

[baggio]

C) Yeah he brought a lot of players, but we really needed rejuvenation of the team and we were in transition. After we appointed Ferrara we got rid of almost every winger we had (thanks to Secco) and than after he was fired we again decided to change our formation (442) and we needed wingers again. So he had to buy at least two new winger and improve others positions as we were in really bad state. He made mistakes, but he also needed to fix the mess that Secco left. You know it's good that he prepared possible transfers for Bonucci and Pepe because Conte could have said that he don't need them. TBH it shows that he only was thinking ahead. He never sold them, he just had a plan B IMO. I'll repeat myself again, for me it's obvious that Marotta is working closely with the coach and he brings players that coach wants or at least similar players. Did he made mistakes, I'll repeat again, YES. But also he deserves credit. It's not like everything good was brought by Conte, and everything bad by Marotta. Also most of the players we have now were brought by Marotta, so guy surely knows things.

P.S. I'm sorry for grammar mistake or for some words that are missing, I have weird habit to skip writing some words, for unknown reason

Oggy my man, he bought a lot of players when we didn't need them. We needed evolution when he took over not revolution. You're right, with Ferrara we playing the 4312 and shifted back to the 442 with Del Neri, but he got rid of guys like Trez who were just fine for that formation. Even Camoranesi didn't need to go that season. Instead of wasting time going after the Borriellos and DiNatales, and getting rid of the e Trezeuets, he should've been fixing the wings and fullbacks. That team, the way it was, with the right fullbacks and wingers would've done much better than the seventh we got. Even this season, he had prepared for Bonnucci's departure and we had clearly needed a defender, and he failed to get us that at the start of the season, on the last day of the market when Bruno Alves fell through. Thankfully, things worked out and Barzagli proved to be a winning gamble. But then again, this is a never-ending argument that I have had forever on this forum. Ironically, I was so happy about Marrotta replacing Secco but the joy was short-lived. My fingers are crossed for the market ahead. And I would gladly admit to be proven wrong. I hope Marrotta can do it.


Haha, and no sweat about the grammar problem. We all have our issues. Like, I love getting infractions abusing Marrotta. Haha.

---------- Post added 16.05.2012 at 04:12 ----------

Maybe some other day I have trouble sleeping.

Haha. No shit. For all the time you spend defending Marrotta. Must be a guilty conscience keeping you up. Anyway, 4 am India standard time. Goodnight.

 

[Lion]

Moggi was very sure of people he invested in. Look at the kind of money we spent on guys like Viera, Emerson, Camoranesi, Zalatan. And even though we spent tonnes on guys like Thuram, Nedved and Gigi but see how long and how much quality that core of players provided. I just think the main difference between them was that Moggi was very sure about the players he was getting and had clear ideas on how they would fit into the team. He also had superior negotiation skills which Marrotta very clearly seems to lack. But that's just me.

he was also responsible for getting us relegated and setting the club back 20 years, not to mention the huge financial losses which cancel out any profit we made from any sales of players under him.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

I don't think anyone's comparing the two per se, but I think to discredit Marotta TOTALLY out of this scudetto is unfair.

 

[only-juve]

C) It's not about Pazienzas and Zieglers. It's about how many players like them came and went. I'm afraid its a trend that would've continued had our coach not had clear ideas. Conte knows exactly what he wants. Like I said, if it wasn't for him, Bonnucci and Pepe wouldn't have been here is season, exactly one season after being bought. Think about it, we've bought 20 plus players in Marrotta's reign at the club. The most important thing for any big club is continuity and Marrotta's methods were hurting us more than helping us. He ws in the same position last year when he hired Del Neri, how come we finished 7th? I'll tell you. Its because we didn't buy players that were needed. We bought players who were easily available. How else can you explain a 442 without fullbacks and wingers? Lack of vision.

pretty much summaries my opinion on Marotta. You just wonder why is he Soo obsessed with all those loan deals ? whether in or out ?

To me that indicates that the man can't really make up his mind and doesn't have a clear idea of what he wants.

Totally the opposite of Conte who really knows what he wants and that's why he's been a total success here.