Giuseppe Marotta (92 Viewers)

[Trezegol17]

We tried to build it in 5 summers didn't we? And where are we now? Yeah 7th in the league. Marotta did great on the wages thing i agree, but giving Toni 3mill a year and buying the likes of Pepe and Martinez is not a wise way to spend money. And don't get me started about that we still pay for a Striker which can easily play first team football in our team.
Who would i'd sign? Can i add the selling of players with that?

 

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[KB824]

It's still a 'project' however you dress it up, just terminology, unless you think you can build a winning team in one summer? Imagine you are the director general, the club says to you that you can spend €40m net on fees and €20m on wages, who do you sign to achieve this?

The problem with this project is that it is compounded with the failure of the previous project. So in essence, this project is not only to begin to put Juve back on the map, but it is also to clean away the remnants of a project from the previous regime that was badly mismanaged.

 

[KB824]

We tried to build it in 5 summers didn't we? And where are we now? Yeah 7th in the league. Marotta did great on the wages thing i agree, but giving Toni 3mill a year and buying the likes of Pepe and Martinez is not a wise way to spend money. And don't get me started about that we still pay for a Striker which can easily play first team football in our team.
Who would i'd sign? Can i add the selling of players with that?

But the two projects have to be mutually exclusive of each other, as much as people don't want them to be. And I don't beleive that toni is getting 3 million a year, I thought it was a reduction to 3 million for the life of the contract, which expires next year?

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

So, let me get this straight. Those of us who have been right down the middle through this whole time are stupid. That is what you are implying. Those who choose not to get overly excited at every good move, and overly critical at mistakes, are stupid and/or mindless sheep that are part of a scoiety.

Hit the nail on the head man.

It seems if you don't agree with certain members on here you are labelled "stupid" and other lame, boring and tired insults are thrown at you. Funny thing is, these people fail to see things in grey, it's always black or white for them. So if I agree even with *some* of Marotta's decisions, I'm a cocksocker for him.

Typical idiocy you get on here, which is dissapointing, but not much you can do.

 

[Trezegol17]

But the two projects have to be mutually exclusive of each other, as much as people don't want them to be. And I don't beleive that toni is getting 3 million a year, I thought it was a reduction to 3 million for the life of the contract, which expires next year?

Well m8, tbh he is scoring for us so i can't complain about him at all, so my bad. That's the thing i ment, it's become the 'project' of cleaning up the mess our previous management did and then we have the new project and that's to put Juve back on the map. For some and mostly me it's unbearable to watch Juve play a decent match or even play decent football, i really believe we could at least have a squad mixed with champions and really good players by now if the money was invested right. We even get rid of players like Thiago and we do these half contract players. Which i really can't understand.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

And to clarify further I am in no way a massive fan of Marotta (and esp Delneri).

 

[JuveJay]

We tried to build it in 5 summers didn't we? And where are we now? Yeah 7th in the league. Marotta did great on the wages thing i agree

I think two issues are being confused here, Marotta's work and the club's situation over 5 years. Secco tried it one way, he had the benefit of some determined and bitter champions, and his team were able to build upon good finishes and extra funds from CL qualifiers, so he could go out and risk his hand with expensive buys. Then last season came and we got kicked in the balls. It failed spectacularly. That's where Marotta started from.

I'm not going to repeat whether we should be doing better, that's all been said and is obvious. But when you say 'build us a squad to reign supreme' you make it sound as if all that has to be done is wave a magic wand. Even if he buys popular players, or skillful players, or gets 14 out of 14 signings correct (doesn't happen at any club, especially when 4-5 are just fill-in squad players), or whatever fans desire, there is no assurance the team will do well. It's only gauged on results and football being as it is he is judged along with the coach and players simply on that.

Yes, add sales to your list.

 

[Trezegol17]

And to clarify further I am in no way a massive fan of Marotta (and esp Delneri).

I actually voted for him in the poll we had for our new GM

 

[Buck Fuddy]

The problem with this project is that it is compounded with the failure of the previous project. So in essence, this project is not only to begin to put Juve back on the map, but it is also to clean away the remnants of a project from the previous regime that was badly mismanaged.

I don't think the previous management's project was a failure. Never did, never will.

But I'm not saying this new one will turn out to be a failure either, even if a shitload of decisions have left me wondering.

 

[Trezegol17]

I think two issues are being confused here, Marotta's work and the club's situation over 5 years. Secco tried it one way, he had the benefit of some determined and bitter champions, and his team were able to build upon good finishes and extra funds from CL qualifiers, so he could go out and risk his hand with expensive buys. Then last season came and we got kicked in the balls. It failed spectacularly. That's where Marotta started from.

I'm not going to repeat whether we should be doing better, that's all been said and is obvious. But when you say 'build us a squad to reign supreme' you make it sound as if all that has to be done is wave a magic wand. Even if he buys popular players, or skillful players, or gets 14 out of 14 signings correct (doesn't happen at any club, especially when 4-5 are just fill-in squad players), or whatever fans desire, there is no assurance the team will do well. It's only gauged on results and football being as it is he is judged along with the coach and players simply on that.

Yes, add sales to your list.

JJ, i'm leaving work in 2minutes so i will get back on this later.
I understand what you are saying and ofcourse i did not wanted it to sound like it's an easy magic trick.
The point is ,we allready had fill-in squad players, but let me get back to this later.

 

[KB824]

I don't think the previous management's project was a failure. Never did, never will.

But I'm not saying this new one will turn out to be a failure either, even if a shitload of decisions have left me wondering.

I think that it was an abject failure, and again this is my opinion, because they didn't see the forest for the trees that in not replacing champions with champions, and instead reinforcing an aging core with what can at best be described as complimentary players, makes it a failure. While the very short term benefits may have been helpful, the long term ramifications of this are what affected the club last year, and is what is affecting the club now

Then again, that is just my opinion.

 

[KB824]

JJ, i'm leaving work in 2minutes so i will get back on this later.
I understand what you are saying and ofcourse i did not wanted it to sound like it's an easy magic trick.
The point is ,we allready had fill-in squad players, but let me get back to this later.

Those fill in squad players that this team had last year, a good portion of them now are barely even seeing the light of day now. And this, my friend, is the crux of my whole argument. the "2 or 3 champions" mantra that exists was something that needed to be done the moment they realized that this club had a chance to become formidable again in a couple of years time. They didn't add champions though. They added Tiago, Almiron, Poulsen, Grosso, Sali, Grygera, Iaquinta, Amauri, and the like.

Now, one could also say that for the first year or two once they got promoted, that it could be understood if champions were difficult to come by, seeing as where Juve came from. But, the name of Juventus still held a tremendous amount of weight. Instead of a Tiago AND Almiron, the money could have been better spent on one midfielder who was of a higher class than the both of them combined. The money could have been spent on international scouting, to truly rebuild with prodigies that would have carried this squad to the next decade.

 

[JuveJay]

Anyone have any idea of a realistic team/players we could have actually signed in the last 5 years? Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, those sort of players?

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I think that it was an abject failure, and again this is my opinion, because they didn't see the forest for the trees that in not replacing champions with champions, and instead reinforcing an aging core with what can at best be described as complimentary players, makes it a failure. While the very short term benefits may have been helpful, the long term ramifications of this are what affected the club last year, and is what is affecting the club now

Then again, that is just my opinion.

I probably was one of the only guys who were okay with the previous management anyway. Overall that is, since they also made a few mistakes / weird decisions.
I just can't shake the feeling that, no matter how bad we were last season, we did not need a complete revolution.

That being said, these choices have been made & now we should stick by them. Yet another revolution would do more harm than good anyway imo.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Anyone have any idea of a realistic team/players we could have actually signed in the last 5 years? Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, those sort of players?

Are you implying how there were none?

Or how we needed average players in order to get those 'good ones'? Because after finishing 2nd/3rd we were focusing on quantity and now when we're 7th we're talking about quality. It doesn't make much sense.

Take a look of top 5 teams across Europe and their signings, you'll make two teams of good players.

 

[KB824]

I probably was one of the only guys who were okay with the previous management anyway. Overall that is, since they also made a few mistakes / weird decisions.
I just can't shake the feeling that, no matter how bad we were last season, we did not need a complete revolution.

That being said, these choices have been made & now we should stick by them. Yet another revolution would do more harm than good anyway imo.

I'm of the opinion that major changes needed to be made. Now, whether or not THIS MANY changes were necessary or not, I don't know yet.

What I do feel though is that the Juve of last year were a sinking ship. Not only were they sinking fast the last two months of the season, but there was a deafeatist attitude in the locker room. The Juve of last year were 3-7 against the top 5 teams in Serie A last season. They collected a majority of their points against the mid table and minnows of the league. I think that is an indictment of the talent of the squad last year. This year's squad against the Top 5 this year is already an improvement.
The problems with this squad tend to be a lack of concentration against opponents that they should have beaten.

 

[Bjerknes]

The real issue here is that we did not take the right path directly after Calciopoli. We should have focused on the youth and built a solid base of players around them, and worked our way up from there. It would have been difficult to appease the fans that way, but everyone should understand now that success doesn't come overnight.

I liken our last four years of Juventus to the macroeconomic state of the United States -- instead of allowing the system to cleanse itself naturally, money was thrown at the problem in a very negligent way. Just like banks should have failed, certain players should have taken a back seat to the younger generation. Instead of buying players in their prime, the club should have focused on finding talent that would fit our long-term goal of having an intelligent team of players who have chemistry with one another. Then once that base would be in place, the money would be spent primarily for top players.

Taking this route would have brought us some short-term pain, surely. We might have even finished lower in the table than we did last year. But at the very least, today we would have our base of players already set, with some 23-24 year-olds ready to step into their prime. The squad would be accustomed to one another and we wouldn't have to spend 12 million for the likes of Martinez. Our trend as a team would probably be up, not down, like it is today. But instead, we currently find ourselves wading through the same troubled waters we did a few years ago with no progress made at all (IMO).

I still believe the youth route is the best path to prosperity. At least it appears that the management is investing in the youth program and setting up some footballing ideals for them to work around. We shall see how it goes. But if the end result consists of loaning the best talents, then what's the point of the academy in the first place.

 

[JuveJay]

Are you implying how there were none?

Or how we needed average players in order to get those 'good ones'? Because after finishing 2nd/3rd we were focusing on quantity and now when we're 7th we're talking about quality. It doesn't make much sense.

Take a look of top 5 teams across Europe and their signings, you'll make two teams of good players.

I wasn't implying anything, you read a lot into nothing. I was looking at players we could have actually signed in the last 5 years, like Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, or so we are led to believe. And using Barcelona, Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc is an absolutely terrible comparison. I'll look at those teams and see €1 billion.

 

[Dostoevsky]

I wasn't implying anything, you read a lot into nothing. I was looking at players we could have actually signed in the last 5 years, like Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, or so we are led to believe. And using Barcelona, Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc is an absolutely terrible comparison. I'll look at those teams and see €1 billion.

There were many players available. They don't have to be WC but good scouts will always bring in great players, or miles ahead of those that we signed.

Porto, Benfica, Lyon and many other clubs does that successfully and much better than Juve.

 

[Bjerknes]

Why can't we find players like they can?