Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,408
Apart from from failing to bring TQ Marotta mainly succeded in what seemed to be our objectives for the summer. Getting young and talented LB (we are set for years now), the most promising young forward and CB in Italy and in the end brought Cuadrado, player that will add another dimension to our game. Lemina so far seems like another good signing. Imagine the scenario where we would have failed to bring Dybala or Sandro and entirely relied on 34 yo Evra with Padoin as his 1st sub, Tevez whose contract was bound to expire next summer and also you can raise question how much that kind of player would be motivated to perform, when he set his mind to leave, decision he had been contemplating probably more than a year. The point is we could have done everything differently and there are gazillion various outcomes, but failing to bring TQ isnt the reason for the situation we find ourselves in. The reason I have mentioned TQ is that more than a few times I have seen people bringing up players like Draxler or Gotze as making that much of a difference, asuming we wouldnt be in this state; difference between title challengers and 15th place on the table, which is absurd. There are ofc other dealing during the summer but that one in particular seemed to be preventing Allegri to fully deploy preferred 4-3-1-2. Highly doubt that Vidal would change much here either. We have always known that at one point losing 2-3 key players will become unavoidable and players like Tevez and Pirlo can't guarantee any kind of transfer fee to compensate their contribution of the pitch. Champions. Good coach needs to adapt and find a way with given players, especially since those are some pretty good ones and most managers would have been thrilled if they had been given squad as talented as ours. I would fully understand losing some big ties, especially in the beginning (e.g. Roma, Napoli) where every small detail counts and games are sometimes decided by incidents completely out of hand. But this cant be said for the game against Napoli, where we were completely overrun and never looked like a proper team, when almost every 50/50 ball would find its way to their players feet, where majority of the time players looked bewildered and without any kind of sense as to what their tasks are on the field. This has to do with coaching and setting up the team for the game, mentality is wrong and our confidence has reached rock bottom, since we previously couldnt beat vastly inferior teams. This is where Allegri's blame lies. There can't be any excuse found for obtaining 1 point in the games vs Udinese, Frosinone and Chievo. Unacceptable.

I hope we get out of this pit, I think we will hit the right form and Max might finally set his mind on formation that would bring the most out of players at his disposal (his job), but those first few rounds really exposed some of his weaknesess as a manager.
The main two mistakes are that Dybala was brought in to replace Tevez (as opposed to an already established world class player) and no one was brought in to replace Pirlo (leaving marchisio as the only player that can orchestrate a midfield). The rest of the deals were all fine by me and are all useful players but Marotta didn't prioritize correctly. You replace players in key roles first before going for depth and less important roles like Lb or Cb which already have very good players and adequate subs. Marotta replaced the non-key role players but never got to the actual creative and tactical hubs of the team (Pirlo and Tevez). Dybala is a signing for the future anyone who expects him to emulate Tevez in the best ever form of his career is retarded.
 

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Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,745
I can't wait until the identity of our January panic buy is revealed. Exciting times ahead :touched:

Allegri is to blame for the losses to vastly inferior opposition in Udinese & Chievo in addition to that draw against Frosinone. He is also responsible for all those fucking injuries. He needs to be more assertive and vocal. He strikes me as a yes man, which is not a good thing if you are a coach of a club with an illustrious history and winning tradition.

Marotta is responsible for getting rid of too many players at once, failing to get good deals for any of them, not securing a proper TQ (Hernanes was a panic buy, and we even aided Inter by giving them 11 million for a guy they absolutely had no need for and weren't counting on), and vastly overpaying for an incredibly mediocre striker to "appease" Sassuolo and ease the transfer of Berardi (seriously, who the fuck are Sassuolo that we need to pacify them by purchasing Zaza?! :wth: :howler: )
I'd concentrate on some of the dubious deals since you always put an emphasis on these and neglect all others. :p

I'd much rather keep Llorente here despite his enormous salary, seems like a cheaper solution overall, or at least at the moment. 18m surely could have gone towards some other signing. But you can spin it the other way around, Zaza has a resale value since he's young and also his salary is pittance compared to Llorente's. We could gain more in the end. Position of 4th striker in the team might bother Llorente too much. There's that as well.

Vidal? Debatable, transfer fee considering the season he had seems about right, but selling him without getting replacement would always seem like a poor business.

Tevez and Pirlo? These guys can't get you any money, due to age and Tevez's determination to leave, and they can't be replaced adequately unless you're prepared to spend quite a sum and you're willing to put aside some other deals. Especially Tevez, by far our most important player in the last two seasons and finding someone who will bang 20-25 goals per season will always be a challenge.

- - - Updated - - -

The main two mistakes are that Dybala was brought in to replace Tevez (as opposed to an already established world class player) and no one was brought in to replace Pirlo (leaving marchisio as the only player that can orchestrate a midfield). The rest of the deals were all fine by me and are all useful players but Marotta didn't prioritize correctly. You replace players in key roles first before going for depth and less important roles like Lb or Cb which already have very good players and adequate subs. Marotta replaced the non-key role players but never got to the actual creative and tactical hubs of the team (Pirlo and Tevez). Dybala is a signing for the future anyone who expects him to emulate Tevez in the best ever form of his career is retarded.
Irreplacable memeber of the team. I considered him to be among top 3 players in the world last year, having in mind the season he had. Very few could emulate his level of performances.

You can't miss out to sign one of the most promising LBs in circulation, even at the expense of some other signings. These players are hard to find and I doubt it was either Gotze/Draxler or Alex Sandro.

We signed Rugani in Januray and fee was few mills. Irrelevant for our transfer budget.

Yeah, creative mid was definitely much needed here and he's at fault for not providing the team with one, but it also can't be an excuse for our poor season so far. Most of the teams we have faced have even bigger issues and their squads look shambolic compared to ours.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,584
We miss Tevez and Vidal in the short term, with the numerous changes, but it's hardly some great fucking surprise. It's a nice idea to think we could hit the ground running whilst constructing a new team but things haven't fallen like that. Maybe if we had won the first game with Udinese it would have settled things and we'd have seen a different start entirely. Maybe if we hadn't lost Khedira and Marchisio at the same time we might have something resembling a midfield to build upon. Shit happens in football, we've had things go perfectly for so long and now they aren't. Boo hoo.

Personally I think had we taken a few more points (5 from Udinese/Frosinone) then this would be precisely the kind of start I expected. Because otherwise the fixture list is pretty bullshit, from our POV. Roma, Napoli and Inter away in the first 8 games, good one with a new team. That's why we feel those dropped points more. The Frosinone game was the cherry on the cake, fucking stupid waste of a game.
 

Salvo

J
Moderator
Dec 17, 2007
61,352
We miss Tevez and Vidal in the short term, with the numerous changes, but it's hardly some great fucking surprise. It's a nice idea to think we could hit the ground running whilst constructing a new team but things haven't fallen like that. Maybe if we had won the first game with Udinese it would have settled things and we'd have seen a different start entirely. Maybe if we hadn't lost Khedira and Marchisio at the same time we might have something resembling a midfield to build upon. Shit happens in football, we've had things go perfectly for so long and now they aren't. Boo hoo.

Personally I think had we taken a few more points (5 from Udinese/Frosinone) then this would be precisely the kind of start I expected.
:tup:
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
We miss Tevez and Vidal in the short term, with the numerous changes, but it's hardly some great fucking surprise. It's a nice idea to think we could hit the ground running whilst constructing a new team but things haven't fallen like that. Maybe if we had won the first game with Udinese it would have settled things and we'd have seen a different start entirely. Maybe if we hadn't lost Khedira and Marchisio at the same time we might have something resembling a midfield to build upon. Shit happens in football, we've had things go perfectly for so long and now they aren't. Boo hoo.

Personally I think had we taken a few more points (5 from Udinese/Frosinone) then this would be precisely the kind of start I expected. Because otherwise the fixture list is pretty bullshit, from our POV. Roma, Napoli and Inter away in the first 8 games, good one with a new team. That's why we feel those dropped points more. The Frosinone game was the cherry on the cake, fucking stupid waste of a game.
Exactly.

- - - Updated - - -

Irreplacable memeber of the team. I considered him to be among top 3 players in the world last year, having in mind the season he had. Very few could emulate his level of performances.
omg
 

Papi-a

Senior Member
May 9, 2006
568
I really hope Marotta is in hos last spell at the club! He has done good until this point - but he really fucked up this season! No WQ director would put his team in this situation!

We lost have a team and bought what? 11 players, and did not have a Pre season! Hes only goal was to have a Quick mercato! Half of out team was bought witout the Pre season! Buying players for 433 when we want to play 4312! And hernanes is perhaps the worse player to ever have played in Juventus!
 

CrimsonianKing

The end of Jihadism
Jan 16, 2013
26,278
Apart from from failing to bring TQ Marotta mainly succeded in what seemed to be our objectives for the summer. Getting young and talented LB (we are set for years now), the most promising young forward and CB in Italy and in the end brought Cuadrado, player that will add another dimension to our game. Lemina so far seems like another good signing. Imagine the scenario where we would have failed to bring Dybala or Sandro and entirely relied on 34 yo Evra with Padoin as his 1st sub, Tevez whose contract was bound to expire next summer and also you can raise question how much that kind of player would be motivated to perform, when he set his mind to leave, decision he had been contemplating probably more than a year. The point is we could have done everything differently and there are gazillion various outcomes, but failing to bring TQ isnt the reason for the situation we find ourselves in. The reason I have mentioned TQ is that more than a few times I have seen people bringing up players like Draxler or Gotze as making that much of a difference, asuming we wouldnt be in this state; difference between title challengers and 15th place on the table, which is absurd. There are ofc other dealing during the summer but that one in particular seemed to be preventing Allegri to fully deploy preferred 4-3-1-2. Highly doubt that Vidal would change much here either. We have always known that at one point losing 2-3 key players will become unavoidable and players like Tevez and Pirlo can't guarantee any kind of transfer fee to compensate their contribution of the pitch. Champions. Good coach needs to adapt and find a way with given players, especially since those are some pretty good ones and most managers would have been thrilled if they had been given squad as talented as ours. I would fully understand losing some big ties, especially in the beginning (e.g. Roma, Napoli) where every small detail counts and games are sometimes decided by incidents completely out of hand. But this cant be said for the game against Napoli, where we were completely overrun and never looked like a proper team, when almost every 50/50 ball would find its way to their players feet, where majority of the time players looked bewildered and without any kind of sense as to what their tasks are on the field. This has to do with coaching and setting up the team for the game, mentality is wrong and our confidence has reached rock bottom, since we previously couldnt beat vastly inferior teams. This is where Allegri's blame lies. There can't be any excuse found for obtaining 1 point in the games vs Udinese, Frosinone and Chievo. Unacceptable.

I hope we get out of this pit, I think we will hit the right form and Max might finally set his mind on formation that would bring the most out of players at his disposal (his job), but those first few rounds really exposed some of his weaknesess as a manager.
:lol: Good that you know you're delusional.

When will you change your mind again like you do everytime btw? Let me guess, once he leaves you'll talk shit about him, yes?
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Jan 26, 2009
39,396
We miss Tevez and Vidal in the short term, with the numerous changes, but it's hardly some great fucking surprise. It's a nice idea to think we could hit the ground running whilst constructing a new team but things haven't fallen like that. Maybe if we had won the first game with Udinese it would have settled things and we'd have seen a different start entirely. Maybe if we hadn't lost Khedira and Marchisio at the same time we might have something resembling a midfield to build upon. Shit happens in football, we've had things go perfectly for so long and now they aren't. Boo hoo.

Personally I think had we taken a few more points (5 from Udinese/Frosinone) then this would be precisely the kind of start I expected. Because otherwise the fixture list is pretty bullshit, from our POV. Roma, Napoli and Inter away in the first 8 games, good one with a new team. That's why we feel those dropped points more. The Frosinone game was the cherry on the cake, fucking stupid waste of a game.
I sense anger. Usage of the word fuck on more than one occasion. Come to the dark side my friend :D

- - - Updated - - -

Baldini "left" Tottenham :tuttosport: :klin: :D
 

Lion

King of Tuz
Jan 24, 2007
31,934
on the subject of selling vidal, last year:


With sales of either Pogba or Vidal we could get 40-50m and I don't believe that amount is enough to revolutionize our team. We would undoubtedly weaken our strongest area and for what really? Vidal is WC player, Pogba is on a path to become one very soon and I would rather focus on building our team around these two. Players like Padoin, PDC, Motta, Quag or Gio, Pepe should be offloaded. We could gain some 30-40m, their wages included of course, and that will be enough to give us more spending power. IF some indecent proposal comes by, something in region of 70-80m then we should consider it as every player has its price.
Yes, 60-70m seems logical for maybe the best midfielder in the world atm. More like +90m.
75-80 mil, minus the loss in value and reputation of losing Vidal
26 mil pound offer for Vidal

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youre right. David fucking Luiz was sold for 50M pounds. we should have asked for 80M atleast. fuck you Beppe
wouldnt sell even for 200M! no money can give us back what he gives to the team...
 

Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,499
He has no excuse and should hang his head in shame. The Mercato would not have been so bad if he just managed to get a proper no.10 that would improve the team. Instead he gets us Hernanes who finished 8th place last season with his piece of shit team.

I could have lived with losing Vidal if we got a decent replacement but he is just taking the piss selling the best B2B midfielder in the world to replace him with Hernanes who is not a bad player being honest but it severely weakened us.
 

pogba10

New Member
Sep 28, 2015
44
Marotta always going to be an example how to ruin a winning team!

Tevez - He had 1 year left in his contract, either respect it or the club that wanted him had to pay 10m. We are no charity club.
Pirlo - We all wanted him to leave, but Marotta didn't have anyone beside Marchisio to replace him. Padoin (Really, really?)
Llorente - What's the point of wasting 18m on Zaza and giving him for free to Sevilla, that's bad business.
Vidal - Oh dear lord. Selling him for 18m and not buying a proper AM. Good he couldn't get an AM, why not waste at least 30m on a CM.

Bayern - We gave them Vidal and Coman, but we failed to take from them Gotze a surplus player who wanted to leave Bayern.

Marotta should be fired!
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,359
We miss Tevez and Vidal in the short term, with the numerous changes, but it's hardly some great fucking surprise. It's a nice idea to think we could hit the ground running whilst constructing a new team but things haven't fallen like that. Maybe if we had won the first game with Udinese it would have settled things and we'd have seen a different start entirely. Maybe if we hadn't lost Khedira and Marchisio at the same time we might have something resembling a midfield to build upon. Shit happens in football, we've had things go perfectly for so long and now they aren't. Boo hoo.

Personally I think had we taken a few more points (5 from Udinese/Frosinone) then this would be precisely the kind of start I expected. Because otherwise the fixture list is pretty bullshit, from our POV. Roma, Napoli and Inter away in the first 8 games, good one with a new team. That's why we feel those dropped points more. The Frosinone game was the cherry on the cake, fucking stupid waste of a game.
:tup:
 

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