General News & Politics (49 Viewers)

[s4tch]

Unlike, say, Christianity?

speaking of which: in my kid's school, religious education isn't a compulsory subject. parents can pick between religious education and ethics. we picked ethics. and unsurprisingly it's the same religious education teacher that comes to class just to talk about jesus and god.

 

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[icemaη]

speaking of which: in my kid's school, religious education isn't a compulsory subject. parents can pick between religious education and ethics. we picked ethics. and unsurprisingly it's the same religious education teacher that comes to class just to talk about jesus and god.

I want my son to learn music (since I don't have a musical bone in my body) and most music teachers around here are Catholic. So I'm conflicted when he's singing "I'm in the Lord's army" perfectly My mom (staunch practising Muslim) would probably have a heart attack if she hears him sing.

 

[swag]

I want my son to learn music (since I don't have a musical bone in my body) and most music teachers around here are Catholic. So I'm conflicted when he's singing "I'm in the Lord's army" perfectly My mom (staunch practising Muslim) would probably have a heart attack if she hears him sing.

That would be pretty amusing.

But as a kid who grew up through the Catholic school system -- at least in the US -- and who really subscribes to no religion, I wouldn't sweat it.

The presence of Catholicism in India, and Bangalore in specific, was a bit of a surprise for me. India has everything, so I shouldn't have been surprised. But the fact that India gets off work for Good Friday but the US doesn't would be another good example.

Now I can't speak for the Catholic schools in India (and I am sure the Portuguese, who today don't practice crap, had a little to do with that). But my Chicago Catholicism was cool with a Muslim in its ranks. That's a bit of an exception to the American norm though.

Meanwhile, it still cracks me up that every American bookstore with a section on "Spirituality" have only books on Eastern spirituality and virtually nothing on Christianity. It's as if the people who buy the books are there because they are fleeing sex abuse scandals. Hence the yoga and incense-burning and Sufi dancing import business is sure as hell strong with American consumers ... at the expense of all the Catholic mystics, etc.

California Catholics are like Nazis though compared to Chicago Catholics. Strictness and orthodoxy is more the norm. Could be from the Spanish missionaries that invaded the place? Just saying that I suppose there could be a chance that the Catholics in India are a bit more zealots given what else they are surrounded by.

 

[Jäger]

As was Christianity. Educate yourself. Ignorance is bliss I suppose

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/14/if-islam-is-a-religion-of-violence-so-is-christianity/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html


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Don't forget about the Uyghurs in China.

Christians stopped fighting the crusades centuries ago, muslims are still fighting them 800 years on.
I could only read the first link you sent, the other has paywall. But at first glance its already referring to something that happened more than a millennia ago. The FP article tried its best to draw on modern day parallels of "violent christian extremism" like with the example of how "Rumors flew in Moscow that there would be a pogrom to celebrate the day Christianity came to Russia, and that the police were handing out addresses of Jews to the public" or how "Dylan roof, by some accounts, came from a church going family". Both are very tenuous links, with no concrete evidence marking a correlation. On the other hand, an islamic state still exists, the vast majority of terrorist attacks come from muslim extremists, and most if not all of the remaining theocracies in the world are islamic, run under the observance of the oppressive Sharia Law. That's what Elvin means when he says it's still being forced. You have the choice to ignore an evangelical trying to convert you in America, or anywhere else. You don't have that choice with islam in other parts of the world. Conversions to any non-muslim faith, or none, can result in death, even in fricking 2022.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

There's still plenty of violent religious bullshit that goes on in Central Africa these days, some of which also happens to be "Christian."

 

[Fab Fragment]

Christians stopped fighting the crusades centuries ago, muslims are still fighting them 800 years on.
I could only read the first link you sent, the other has paywall. But at first glance its already referring to something that happened more than a millennia ago. The FP article tried its best to draw on modern day parallels of "violent christian extremism" like with the example of how "Rumors flew in Moscow that there would be a pogrom to celebrate the day Christianity came to Russia, and that the police were handing out addresses of Jews to the public" or how "Dylan roof, by some accounts, came from a church going family". Both are very tenuous links, with no concrete evidence marking a correlation. On the other hand, an islamic state still exists, the vast majority of terrorist attacks come from muslim extremists, and most if not all of the remaining theocracies in the world are islamic, run under the observance of the oppressive Sharia Law. That's what Elvin means when he says it's still being forced. You have the choice to ignore an evangelical trying to convert you in America, or anywhere else. You don't have that choice with islam in other parts of the world. Conversions to any non-muslim faith, or none, can result in death, even in fricking 2022.

I had no idea that Hitler and the Nazi's were all Muslims. Also didn’t realize that Syria, Iraq and Libya were levelled by Muslim fighter jets. Very interesting.
There is no doubt that Muslims have been their own worst enemies but lets be a little objective here. As far as the Islamic State is concerned, everyone knows who they are - mercenaries.

 

[Elvin]

I had no idea that Hitler and the Nazi's were all Muslims. Also didn’t realize that Syria, Iraq and Libya were levelled by Muslim fighter jets. Very interesting.
There is no doubt that Muslims have been their own worst enemies but lets be a little objective here. As far as the Islamic State is concerned, everyone knows who they are - mercenaries.

We're talking about 21st century. What century are you talking about.

 

[Jäger]

I had no idea that Hitler and the Nazi's were all Muslims. Also didn’t realize that Syria, Iraq and Libya were levelled by Muslim fighter jets. Very interesting.
There is no doubt that Muslims have been their own worst enemies but lets be a little objective here. As far as the Islamic State is concerned, everyone knows who they are - mercenaries.

Except the nazis didn't kill in the name of christianity, they killed in the name of "Aryan superiority". Hitler was literally an agnostic, and despised the church

 

[kappa96]

I had no idea that Hitler and the Nazi's were all Muslims. Also didn’t realize that Syria, Iraq and Libya were levelled by Muslim fighter jets. Very interesting.
There is no doubt that Muslims have been their own worst enemies but lets be a little objective here. As far as the Islamic State is concerned, everyone knows who they are - mercenaries.

So you mean to say that Hitler and American fighter jets tried to impose in those countries the word of the christian(God)?
I find your reasoning perplexing.
They forgot to build churches in Afghanistan, in 17 years.

 

[Fab Fragment]

Except the nazis didn't kill in the name of christianity, they killed in the name of "Aryan superiority". Hitler was literally an agnostic, and despised the church

Fair point. I overlooked the word “crusade” you had mentioned. Sorry.

 

[Fred]

I had no idea that Hitler and the Nazi's were all Muslims. Also didn’t realize that Syria, Iraq and Libya were levelled by Muslim fighter jets. Very interesting.
There is no doubt that Muslims have been their own worst enemies but lets be a little objective here. As far as the Islamic State is concerned, everyone knows who they are - mercenaries.

Syria and Libya were destroyed by Arabs, who also happen to be Muslim. I don't think religion had much to do with it in those cases. But this narrative that the west are somehow to blame for how shitty these countries are is so wrong. Syrians and Libyans are killing each other.

Also if you think extremists such as the Islamic state are not real. I completely disagree. We need to be honest about these things. It does us no good denying reality

 

[Fab Fragment]

Syria and Libya were destroyed by Arabs, who also happen to be Muslim. I don't think religion had much to do with it in those cases. But this narrative that the west are somehow to blame for how shitty these countries are is so wrong. Syrians and Libyans are killing each other.

Also if you think extremists such as the Islamic state are not real. I completely disagree. We need to be honest about these things. It does us no good denying reality

The Islamic state is real alright. But mercenaries. Apart from some high profile non Muslims, the overwhelming majority of people they murdered were Muslims.

 

[Tomice]

Islam has little to do with the fact that Muslim countries are failing. It has everything to do with tribalism and Arab culture. The only downside of Islam in this context compared to other religions is that the later texts of Islam are much easier to politicize and use for political gains.

Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Jordan are not real countries. They are a collection of minorities, sects, tribes, cities etc. grouped (or stuck) together by imaginary borders drawn by western countries after the ottoman collapsed post WW1. While the west did caused a lot of the issues that are now catching up to those places, and still support authoritarian regimes let's not pretend that if left to their own devices thing will be any better.

Arab culture is simply not compatible with the modern concept of a centralized state. The world in forcing a square block in a round pigeonhole. The only time Muslim countries were successful was when they had an Uma or a caliphate which is, in simple terms, a completely decentralized modal of a country.

 

[Elvin]

Islam has little to do with the fact that Muslim countries are failing. It has everything to do with tribalism and Arab culture. The only downside of Islam in this context compared to other religions is that the later texts of Islam are much easier to politicize and use for political gains.

Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Jordan are not real countries. They are a collection of minorities, sects, tribes, cities etc. grouped (or stuck) together by imaginary borders drawn by western countries after the ottoman collapsed post WW1. While the west did caused a lot of the issues that are now catching up to those places, and still support authoritarian regimes let's not pretend that if left to their own devices thing will be any better.

Arab culture is simply not compatible with the modern concept of a centralized state. The world in forcing a square block in a round pigeonhole. The only time Muslim countries were successful was when they had an Uma or a caliphate which is, in simple terms, a completely decentralized modal of a country.

Islam is not limited to arabs ffs. Other Muslim counteies are failing too - Iran, Turkey, all of Central Asia, Malaysia.

They are all miserable and what they all have in common is Islam (which means submission). Submit to Allah, submit to your elders, submit to your husband, submit to your master.

It's all related.

 

[Tomice]

Islam is not limited to arabas ffs. Other Muslim countries are failing too - Iran, Turkey, all of Central Asia, Malaysia.

They are all miserable and what they all have in common is Islam (which means submission). Submit to Allah, submit to your elders, submit to your husband, submit to your master.

It's all related.

It's a too simplified view, similar result is not necessarily similar causation.

Iran and Turkey failing cause of a lot of different reasons, some of which external (justified or not). You can always claim that Islam leads to totalitarian regimes but you can also say it's easier for totalitarian regimes to use religion as a tool, in this case Islam.

I'm not a fan of Islam, I think it's a problematic religion to some extant, a lot of internal contradictions, early vs late writings, it's political nature etc. but you need to realize it can be weaponized like any other religion. Many Balkan/eastern European countries were also failed countries with totalitarian regimes.

 

[Elvin]

It's a too simplified view, similar result is not necessarily similar causation.

Iran and Turkey failing cause of a lot of different reasons, some of which external (justified or not). You can always claim that Islam leads to totalitarian regimes but you can also say it's easier for totalitarian regimes to use religion as a tool, in this case Islam.

I'm not a fan of Islam, I think it's a problematic religion to some extant, a lot of internal contradictions, early vs late writings, it's political nature etc. but you need to realize it can be weaponized like any other religion. Many Balkan/eastern European countries were also failed countries with totalitarian regimes.

Again. Im talking about 2022.

 

[Mokku]

Religion is blamed for everything but if you take a step back, Middle Eastern countries are dictatorships and that almost always ends with civil war which is where you get IS or Taliban emerging. These people are fighting for power but they use Islam as an excuse to do whatever but it's not for the benefit of religion, it's to frighten and bully civilians into obedience.

@Elvin, you speak like an Athiest so I'd say educate yourself about any type of religion then bring some sort of argument. If you do follow a religion, go back and study it because it'll be a revelation to you what's actually written since every religion, in essence, is submission to God.

 

[Fred]

The Islamic state is real alright. But mercenaries. Apart from some high profile non Muslims, the overwhelming majority of people they murdered were Muslims.

That is true. But that doesn't mean they are agents of western governments. Maybe unwittingly, but certainly not deliberately, at least not the majority. Salafi jihadism is a real ideology that has real adherents. Of course its quite annoying how you don't hear much about them when they continually wreak havoc and kill other muslims, but the whole world hears about them only when they conduct terrorism abroad. Their primary victims are other muslims, but anyone who thinks they are US agents or something doesn't understand their poisonous ideology or underestimates their reach(especially in poor, conservative and uneducated areas) .

 

[Bjerknes]

In other science news, crazy shit.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

In other science news, crazy shit.

This is amazing, I hope it works out for him. So many lives could be saved.

I'm sure there will also be people that are against things like this as well