[Friendly] Sunderland Vs Juventus [4th August] (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
It's not about being positive or not , it's just about being realistic and seeing things as they are . Right now serie A is nowhere near the level it used to be .
The quality of serie A has gone down dramatically , It's not about who wins the champions league or how many years we have a different serie A champion , you just have to think of the league as a whole .
Milan will always be milan regardless of what happens in serie A , but its the rest of the teams im worried about , none of the italian teams came close to the european cup , yet an italian team wins the champions league , if anything this means that average teams in serie A are no way close to the average teams in spain/england , but the high quality teams in italy are better/in the same level as the high quality teams in spain/england .
Just look at how easilly inter won the scudetto last year , they just aren't that good , they went out so early in the champions league against valencia and lost the coppa 6-2 to roma yet still manage to dominate serie A , simply because the rest of the teams in serie A are not at the same level anymore.
The quality of serie A has gone down dramatically , It's not about who wins the champions league or how many years we have a different serie A champion , you just have to think of the league as a whole .
Milan will always be milan regardless of what happens in serie A , but its the rest of the teams im worried about , none of the italian teams came close to the european cup , yet an italian team wins the champions league , if anything this means that average teams in serie A are no way close to the average teams in spain/england , but the high quality teams in italy are better/in the same level as the high quality teams in spain/england .
Just look at how easilly inter won the scudetto last year , they just aren't that good , they went out so early in the champions league against valencia and lost the coppa 6-2 to roma yet still manage to dominate serie A , simply because the rest of the teams in serie A are not at the same level anymore.
and the excuse train rolls on......
Then we went to hamburg and got beat 1-0 to a side that should have been relegated from the Bundesliga last season but managed to survive. Excuse: they are ahead of us in preparations. Then we go to Sunderland and lose a goal in the first 5 minutes, and only manage to draw 1-1 with a side that has just come from the championship but again the excuse is we are behind in fitness.
1 goal against 3 pretty average sides, fitness or not is not good enough.
But it seems as long as Inter is losing too, everything is okay. do not even start to compare juventus situation with Inter's as we are not in the same boat. It is okay for them to lose as they know their team.
It is not okay for a new era with players and managers to continually lose against ordinary sides as it does not breed confidence. I am not even seeing any kind of pattern in our game.
Someone even said we are entertaining. Entertaining? How? Salihamidic had a nightmare on the right hand side against Sunderland. Nocerino whom, I was led to belive is a central midfielder of the spoiling mode did better than him on the right.
All the games I have seen Tiago has been crap and Almiron was bad against Sunderland, i don't know what game you guys were watching. They did not look unfit to me just not good enough but hopefully its a 1 off
Nedved was good against sunderland, Dp was way too slow and indecisive but thats more fitness than anything. Iaquinta is lively but decision making is not his forte as yet. Trez was lively to and with sharpness, he would get better.
Chiellini and palladino seem up for it and I am still not sure why Palladino is not starting instead of Iaquinta unless of cos Iaquinta is a definite starter for us next season.
Defence, now that is a big joke at the moment as the right back situation is a mess, Grygera does not seem like a centreback but I was impressed with Milinaro, goal apart. Andrade was okay but nothing to be particularly pleased about. Buffon is in for along season if we do not make alterations at the back.
Just my 2 cents but we need reinforcements, fitness or not, our midfield is not seriea material, well not if you want to qualify for CL, we need 1 0r 2 players in there as we pale quite badly compared to what Inter, Roma, Milan and perhaps Fiorentina can boast of.
Defence, well you don't need to be Einstein to work out that we need a right back and perhaps andother centre back
P.s What exactly is the plan for Leggrottaglie and Boumsong as they do not seem to be getting a chance at all?
@ Juve Revolution: Serie A cannot be judged by last year, because by the look of what you just said, thats what you are basing your opinion on.
Im not denying that Serie A isnt as good as it used to be, but IMO it will be back to the way it was very soon.
But im not gonna sit here and just agree with M.A.R.K because Rebel says i have to. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and that is my opinion on this topic.
Im not denying that Serie A isnt as good as it used to be, but IMO it will be back to the way it was very soon.
But im not gonna sit here and just agree with M.A.R.K because Rebel says i have to. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and that is my opinion on this topic.
I agree. I really think he just wants to please the fans and the media by playing attacking football. Instead of taking advantage of our teams strengths.
He is one of the most succesful coaches in history. I have no idea why people hate him so much. I think most people obsess about players and he pisses off a lot of players. But, he wins everywhere he goes and guarantees success. Seems like people have their little agendas to suck players asses.
I blame it on the foreign players that are coming in and all the young talent that is leaving.
Agree.
Agree with everything. Let me piggyback this idea:
People love to make excuses when we lose because we are too proud to just accept defeat. If we just look at the way the team has performed in the three games, results aside, we look poor in the exact same places we thought we would be coming into the transfer period. Salihamidzic was a good pickup, because he is a versatile backup. Grygera was good because he is a better RB than Zebina and could fill a void at CB if needed. Tiago and Almiron are both good players, but I questioned why we needed both of them. Iaquinta is a good backup and that is it.
Basically. This team has 5 players. DP, Nedved, Camo, Trez and Buffon. Everybody else is just trying to fit in here. That is not good. That means that Ranieri has not done his job. He has had plenty of time to pick a formation and mold the players into his style. The problem is... he hasn't molded anything. He is confused and IMO he is making horrible lineup descisions.
Grygera is our best RB. He is a very good RB. He is an average CB. WHY is he playing CB??? I would rather start Chiellini, Criscito, or even Boumsong just to get this guy out at RB. He is NOT a good CB, and not nearly as effective at CB as he is at RB. Zebina is a backup at best. The guy's best season was in Serie B and so many forgot how much he actually stinks. STOP starting him because he says nice things about the club.
I have faith in Molinaro. He did good things for Siena last year. Chiellini is a better LB IMO, but his potential at LB is, IMO maxed out. I would love to see Chiellini play as a CB next to Andrade. Chiellini is powerful, combative and great in the air. He would compliment Andrade perfectly. Criscito is NOT an LB. I don't want to see another good CB prospect thrown out to the wing prematurely. He has so much potential inside, it would be a shame to waste it.
Tiago and Almiron.... both good players. Both similar players, yes Andy, they are similar in respect to what they offer us, or don't offer us I guess. That is good defence. We NEED a destroyer out there badly. With this awful defense, and Ranieri's lack of defensive prowess, we need someone to help out. We have a very good strike force with Trez, DP, Nedved and Camo. We don't need to throw more attackers out there. It is overkill. Especially if we have Almiron or Tiago supporting them. It is pointless and a waste. Nocerino has been playing very well. He is skilled for a DM and doesn't just have cement boots. PLEASE play either him, or the experienced Zanetti in front of our very average defense.
A trident attack is cute, and a couple versions of it will work. Whether we use it or not, we need to settle on a starting 11. I think that this roster has a clear and undeniable gap between 11 starters and 12 backups. I don't think there is any question who can play where and whom should be starting over whom. Ranieri is clearly uncertain and clearly did not do his homework like he should have. We aren't a deep team. It shouldn't be this hard to send 11 of our best players out there.
New Castle, Hamburg, Sunderland. I am well aware of where we have come from and what the clubs situation is. But there is NO excuse for the poor performances we have put out in each of these games. We can miss the net all we want, but we should NEVER have let half of these goals in. I see a philosophical problem with Ranieri's tactics and our roster. I am very concerned as we approach the season that we are NOT going to be performing as well as we should be. What blind faith must I have in order to make me not think Ranieri is an idiot? I do not see any logic in his formation picking and his lineups. NONE. We have learned little about our new players and like Ranieri, I have no idea how we are going to lineup. I am pretty sure he is changing the identity of the club by going to an attacking format, but I really think it will hurt us more than it will help us.
I liked DD. I liked Capello. I loved Lippi. But, I can honestly say that the hiring of Ranieri is not something I can get behind. He scares me, he is making poor decisions and our team is severely underachieving. The worst part is... he is making excuses and playing it down. They may be old, but we still have DP and Nedved, we still have Camo and Trezeguet and we still have Buffon. We need to cover up our weakness and rely on our great players. Right now, we are just over-emphasising our strength and letting our weakness out there for everyone to see. We are lucky Buffon is as good as he is, because if we had any other keeper, we would have had it much worse.
I am VERY concerned about 2007-2008. This is a very important year.
That is how some people justify their knowledge. It is a very disgraceful tactic.
He is one of the most succesful coaches in history. I have no idea why people hate him so much. I think most people obsess about players and he pisses off a lot of players. But, he wins everywhere he goes and guarantees success. Seems like people have their little agendas to suck players asses.
You´re a dumbass, I have been following this league for 12 years and I don´t know nothing about it? 
Yeah, you will teach me, but maybe when you turn 16. Moron.
I hate what Calcio has become because some years ago this league was an example to others and now is losing image and quality.
One more thing: When you love something and that disappoints you, you immediately start hating it, that is how I feel about Serie A.
Yeah, you will teach me, but maybe when you turn 16. Moron.
I hate what Calcio has become because some years ago this league was an example to others and now is losing image and quality.
One more thing: When you love something and that disappoints you, you immediately start hating it, that is how I feel about Serie A.
Agree.
Agree with everything. Let me piggyback this idea:
People love to make excuses when we lose because we are too proud to just accept defeat. If we just look at the way the team has performed in the three games, results aside, we look poor in the exact same places we thought we would be coming into the transfer period. Salihamidzic was a good pickup, because he is a versatile backup. Grygera was good because he is a better RB than Zebina and could fill a void at CB if needed. Tiago and Almiron are both good players, but I questioned why we needed both of them. Iaquinta is a good backup and that is it.
Basically. This team has 5 players. DP, Nedved, Camo, Trez and Buffon. Everybody else is just trying to fit in here. That is not good. That means that Ranieri has not done his job. He has had plenty of time to pick a formation and mold the players into his style. The problem is... he hasn't molded anything. He is confused and IMO he is making horrible lineup descisions.
Grygera is our best RB. He is a very good RB. He is an average CB. WHY is he playing CB??? I would rather start Chiellini, Criscito, or even Boumsong just to get this guy out at RB. He is NOT a good CB, and not nearly as effective at CB as he is at RB. Zebina is a backup at best. The guy's best season was in Serie B and so many forgot how much he actually stinks. STOP starting him because he says nice things about the club.
I have faith in Molinaro. He did good things for Siena last year. Chiellini is a better LB IMO, but his potential at LB is, IMO maxed out. I would love to see Chiellini play as a CB next to Andrade. Chiellini is powerful, combative and great in the air. He would compliment Andrade perfectly. Criscito is NOT an LB. I don't want to see another good CB prospect thrown out to the wing prematurely. He has so much potential inside, it would be a shame to waste it.
Tiago and Almiron.... both good players. Both similar players, yes Andy, they are similar in respect to what they offer us, or don't offer us I guess. That is good defence. We NEED a destroyer out there badly. With this awful defense, and Ranieri's lack of defensive prowess, we need someone to help out. We have a very good strike force with Trez, DP, Nedved and Camo. We don't need to throw more attackers out there. It is overkill. Especially if we have Almiron or Tiago supporting them. It is pointless and a waste. Nocerino has been playing very well. He is skilled for a DM and doesn't just have cement boots. PLEASE play either him, or the experienced Zanetti in front of our very average defense.
A trident attack is cute, and a couple versions of it will work. Whether we use it or not, we need to settle on a starting 11. I think that this roster has a clear and undeniable gap between 11 starters and 12 backups. I don't think there is any question who can play where and whom should be starting over whom. Ranieri is clearly uncertain and clearly did not do his homework like he should have. We aren't a deep team. It shouldn't be this hard to send 11 of our best players out there.
New Castle, Hamburg, Sunderland. I am well aware of where we have come from and what the clubs situation is. But there is NO excuse for the poor performances we have put out in each of these games. We can miss the net all we want, but we should NEVER have let half of these goals in. I see a philosophical problem with Ranieri's tactics and our roster. I am very concerned as we approach the season that we are NOT going to be performing as well as we should be. What blind faith must I have in order to make me not think Ranieri is an idiot? I do not see any logic in his formation picking and his lineups. NONE. We have learned little about our new players and like Ranieri, I have no idea how we are going to lineup. I am pretty sure he is changing the identity of the club by going to an attacking format, but I really think it will hurt us more than it will help us.
I liked DD. I liked Capello. I loved Lippi. But, I can honestly say that the hiring of Ranieri is not something I can get behind. He scares me, he is making poor decisions and our team is severely underachieving. The worst part is... he is making excuses and playing it down. They may be old, but we still have DP and Nedved, we still have Camo and Trezeguet and we still have Buffon. We need to cover up our weakness and rely on our great players. Right now, we are just over-emphasising our strength and letting our weakness out there for everyone to see. We are lucky Buffon is as good as he is, because if we had any other keeper, we would have had it much worse.
I am VERY concerned about 2007-2008. This is a very important year.
That is how some people justify their knowledge. It is a very disgraceful tactic.
Right now , nothing gives me hope of being optimistic for the coming season .
Our defense is beyond shitty , our midfield and attacking so far are limited to say the least . Tiago is nowhere near what we thought he would be . Almiron is ok .
Most of the goals we have conceded so far are just idiotic mistakes from the defense that can easilly be avoided .
They were friendlies and maybe ranieri was just trying out tactics butthat doesnt mean we should draw to teams like sunderland in the last minute of the game .
Some poeple say that juve have become more attacking . I have seen the highlights vs sunderland and we were able to come up with two decent chances at most .
We definetely have a problem in the team . Im still convinced the reason is because of all the new faces we now have . It's definetely going to take time before they will start playing like a team .
Our defense is beyond shitty , our midfield and attacking so far are limited to say the least . Tiago is nowhere near what we thought he would be . Almiron is ok .
Most of the goals we have conceded so far are just idiotic mistakes from the defense that can easilly be avoided .
They were friendlies and maybe ranieri was just trying out tactics butthat doesnt mean we should draw to teams like sunderland in the last minute of the game .
Some poeple say that juve have become more attacking . I have seen the highlights vs sunderland and we were able to come up with two decent chances at most .
We definetely have a problem in the team . Im still convinced the reason is because of all the new faces we now have . It's definetely going to take time before they will start playing like a team .
I think the top teams are of the same level or even better then 10 years ago but the small teams have deteriorated. They can 't hardly ever upset a top team. Therefor I say that serie A has gotten worse because it is the battle that makes all teams better and unfortunately things are getting too easy for the big boys.
I only hope Juve are still among the big ones cuz I feel it will be hard to get back at the top. Winning B was easy but I think the hardest part comes in the next seasons.
I only hope Juve are still among the big ones cuz I feel it will be hard to get back at the top. Winning B was easy but I think the hardest part comes in the next seasons.
Maybe , but i think you have a defensive mentality if you want juve to depend on counter attacks , not that im against that . Personally , i think we should control the ball well and play at the tempo we want , basically control the game and force our opponents play the way we want them to . especially with the defense we have , if we were defending the whole game with our defense , then we would be more prone to errors and goals scored on us .
this is why i think the best solution is controlling the ball , once we learn to do that well we can take a huge load off our weak defense and become less likely to make stupid defensive errors .
To score goals we can rely on almiron or tiago for creating our plays or even focus on the wings with nedved and camo . We aren't creating as many chances as we should because the opposition seems to be able to control the ball more . When we learn to keep possesion , we have a better chance of creating chances .
this is why i think the best solution is controlling the ball , once we learn to do that well we can take a huge load off our weak defense and become less likely to make stupid defensive errors .
To score goals we can rely on almiron or tiago for creating our plays or even focus on the wings with nedved and camo . We aren't creating as many chances as we should because the opposition seems to be able to control the ball more . When we learn to keep possesion , we have a better chance of creating chances .
Great reportin b-daddy!! i'm particularly interested in ur comments on our midfield.I always had a sneaky feeling that Almiron was going 2 do O.K. ....his appearance n style is so reminiscent of Veron in his hey day,hope Sergio can match him for form too!
Tiago seems 2 be more offensive than defensive,so instead of pairing him with Almiron and restraining one or the other,how about we pair either of them with C.Zanetti or nocerino whoo r more natural DM's?
Tiago seems 2 be more offensive than defensive,so instead of pairing him with Almiron and restraining one or the other,how about we pair either of them with C.Zanetti or nocerino whoo r more natural DM's?
That is not a bad idea. But I question if Nedved and Camo can do that. They are so good at flying down those wings. We could play posession football, we have good attacking players, but I think we need to build a wall infront of that net and move up the field slowly then. Make sure we leave our CB's back with (the key) a DM to blow up quick breaks.