Formula 1 - Season 2010 (17 Viewers)

[Salvatore]

Teams go out to win titles. Alonso was quite a bit ahead of Massa at that point in the championship, so Ferrari decided that they needed to back him to try and go for the drivers title. Ferrari don't race to appeal to fans and make an interesting, or what some consider a "fair" race, but to win.

I agree with Michael Schumacher;

“Obviously, being in the car, I didn’t have as nice a view as you guys, but occasionally on the big screen I could see Felipe in first position,”

“I felt happy obviously because he is a friend of mine. Then hearing that Alonso had won the race, I was wondering what kind of strategy was that?

“I have been criticised in the past for exactly that. I have to say that I understand 100 per cent and I would do exactly the same if I was in their situation. At the end of the day, what are we here for? We are fighting for a championship and there is only one driver that can win the championship. At the end of the year, if you think you have lost the championship for that point, you will ask yourself – and not only yourself but the fans, the TV and the journalists – why didn’t you do it.

“If you go back to other years in other teams in other situations, in the last race for example, there has been clear team orders – and everyone accepts that. It’s the last race, it’s normal and so on. Whether it is the last race, the second-to-last race or even earlier, what is the point in criticising?”

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26072010/23/schumacher-understands-ferrari-s-decision.html

Where was the outrage at this one?

Why is it when teams do it less noticeably than yesterday, then nobody bothers to make a sound?

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX9H917vQrg Where was the outrage at this one?

Why is it when teams do it less noticeably than yesterday, then nobody bothers to make a sound?

Was Kimi giving any orders over the radio to let Massa pass?

 

[Lucky Luke]

domenicalli took the right decision.vettel was catching up very fast,alonso was faster than massa so gigi had to ensure our 1-2 with any means possible

 

[Lucky Luke]

cant really understand why McLaren fans are so bitter.

they werent even challenging for the win yesterday

 

[Nicholas]

What is a McLaren fan, I check on them because their English. You mean McLaren has fans all over the World?

 

[Lucky Luke]

 

[Cronios]

This has been blown out of proportìon without good reason, there were times 2nd drivers were ordered to surounder their spot, despite the fact that they were obviously faster.
Whilst on the other hand Felipe was really slower than Alonso this, he was holding him back and Ferrari was risking to lose #1 in this very grand prix...

 

[Salvatore]

Was Kimi giving any orders over the radio to let Massa pass?

No. They would have been punished if they told him to move over.

Kimi let him through with common sense as part of the team because he wasn't in a position to fight for the championship. The team probably reminded him about the situation, before and during the race.

 

[Lucky Luke]

This has been blown out of proportìon without good reason, there were times 2nd drivers were ordered to surounder their spot, despite the fact that they were obviously faster.
Whilst on the other hand Felipe was really slower than Alonso this, he was holding him back and Ferrari was risking to lose #1 in this very grand prix...

well put

ps hope you're having a great summer in chios!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

domenicalli took the right decision.vettel was catching up very fast,alonso was faster than massa so gigi had to ensure our 1-2 with any means possible

A decision which is against the rules. And they knew it was.

cant really understand why McLaren fans are so bitter.

they werent even challenging for the win yesterday

There's nothing to be bitter about here. Ferrari broke the rules. They manipulated the race result. It's obvious, and we're just talking about it.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

This has been blown out of proportìon without good reason, there were times 2nd drivers were ordered to surounder their spot, despite the fact that they were obviously faster.
Whilst on the other hand Felipe was really slower than Alonso this, he was holding him back and Ferrari was risking to lose #1 in this very grand prix...

If Alonso was really that much faster than Massa, why couldn't he pass him like a normal race driver? Was he short of laps? I guess not, cos there was at least 20 laps remaining. Massa had no problems holding off Vettel in 3rd, so you can't blame Vettel's pace for that. Alonso's a World Champion. Is he that skill-less to not be able to pass Massa without team orders? Come on...

It's really quite pathetic how you're trying to justify their crime.

No. They would have been punished if they told him to move over.

Kimi let him through with common sense as part of the team because he wasn't in a position to fight for the championship. The team probably reminded him about the situation, before and during the race.

I guess that's the reason why there's so much talk about this one and not that!

Also, why would Ferrari not order Kimi to move over, but order Massa to do so this time? Did they somehow forget that the rule was still in place?

We'll I'll tell you why. It was a DESPERATE attempt by them to stay in the Drivers Championship. They knew that as things stand, there won't be any chance of Alonso winning the championship. Normally, the drivers should've fought it out. If Alonso wanted to win, he would do it with his car and his skills. But he and his team knew that would not happen. Instead of accepting that reality, they tried to change it in Alonso's favour. Say what you will, but that's just WRONG!

 

[Lucky Luke]

because it might end up like that

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

because it might end up like that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z0cjfBsyAU

There's also a change that might NOT have ended up like that, and Alonso would've got a legitimate win. I guess Ferrari don't like to win legitimately.

 

[Lucky Luke]

there's no point to discuss it any more.we cant reach in an agreement

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Exactly. So you Ferrari fans need to man up, accept that your team cheated, and just get on with our lives instead of trying to justify their actions.

 

[icemaη]

Team orders are nothing new. It has always been there in the sport and it will continue regardless. Some instructions are more open than others, so they tend to stand out.

 

[JCK]

Exactly and comparing this to what McLaren did a couple of seasons ago is simply ridiculous.

 

[Salvatore]

I guess that's the reason why there's so much talk about this one and not that!

No it isn't, because whatever was said over the radio then would have been pretty similar to what happened yesterday anyway. Being hidden away from the public doesn't mean it isn't the exact same thing.

Also, why would Ferrari not order Kimi to move over, but order Massa to do so this time? Did they somehow forget that the rule was still in place?

Both drivers would have been politely reminded of the situation they were in, neither were told to move. The way Ferrari orchestrated the swap was poor though, they could have done it in the pits or something, just as what has happened numerous times before with all of the other teams, when there wasn't an uproar.

Felipe has already said he made the decision for the team. Same as Kimi in 2008.

We'll I'll tell you why. It was a DESPERATE attempt by them to stay in the Drivers Championship. They knew that as things stand, there won't be any chance of Alonso winning the championship. Normally, the drivers should've fought it out. If Alonso wanted to win, he would do it with his car and his skills. But he and his team knew that would not happen. Instead of accepting that reality, they tried to change it in Alonso's favour. Say what you will, but that's just WRONG!

Then I guess most teams on the grid are desperate because teams tactically position their cars all the time. Team orders are a part of this sport whether you like it or not, and they will do anything to win. McLaren in 2007 favoured Hamilton and gave him preferential treatment, no matter what they claim. Irvine in 1999 after Schumacher broke his leg, he was the focus of Ferrari. Red Bull favour Vettel when Webber was given older parts for his car at Silverstone this year.

Look at what happened just this year between Vettel and Webber at Istanbul to see what happens to teams who let their drivers fight, and why they tell them to keep in formation and keep it safe.

I don't get the punishment by the way. If they were cheating, then why were they just fined a relatively small figure?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Exactly and comparing this to what McLaren did a couple of seasons ago is simply ridiculous.

You're the only one here comparing it to what McLaren did. In fact, until you came along, it was not being compared to what any other team did at all.

No it isn't, because whatever was said over the radio then would have been pretty similar to what happened yesterday anyway. Being hidden away from the public doesn't mean it isn't the exact same thing.

Well we don't know if what was said to Kimi earlier was similar or not because THAT MESSAGE WAS NOT BROADCAST TO THE LIVE AUDIENCE TO LISTEN TO!!! There's always an uproar when there's a reason for one. Ferrari gave us that reason on Sunday but not during that race. So quit whining about the uproar! Ferrari deserve the uproar. They brought it upon themselves!

Both drivers would have been politely reminded of the situation they were in, neither were told to move. The way Ferrari orchestrated the swap was poor though, they could have done it in the pits or something, just as what has happened numerous times before with all of the other teams, when there wasn't an uproar.

Felipe has already said he made the decision for the team. Same as Kimi in 2008.

If Massa would've involuntarily made that decision, why the hell didn't he do it before? Ferrari's pathetic standings did not change during the course of the race. They were in that situation even before the race started. If Massa really wanted to do it for the team, he would've give the spot to Alonso without anyone asking him to do it. Massa was asked to make that decision. If he denied that, then he would've been punished by Ferrari internally. He doing it after they told him to brought Ferrari into so much trouble, which is probably what he really wanted.

Then I guess most teams on the grid are desperate because teams tactically position their cars all the time. Team orders are a part of this sport whether you like it or not, and they will do anything to win. McLaren in 2007 favoured Hamilton and gave him preferential treatment, no matter what they claim. Irvine in 1999 after Schumacher broke his leg, he was the focus of Ferrari. Red Bull favour Vettel when Webber was given older parts for his car at Silverstone this year.

The last time I checked, a team favouring ONE of their drivers was not against the rules. Manipulating a race is against the rules. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Look at what happened just this year between Vettel and Webber at Istanbul to see what happens to teams who let their drivers fight, and why they tell them to keep in formation and keep it safe.

Well that's arguable. McLaren later showed how it should be done. Ferrari don't even have the audacity to even do that. Did they not have faith in their drivers and their skills? We're they just pussies to not even take that chance? Please...

 

[JCK]

You're the only one here comparing it to what McLaren did. In fact, until you came along, it was not being compared to what any other team did at all.

Because you are calling what Ferrari did cheating whereas the real cheating is coming from McLaren.