Final | Portugal - Greece (4 Viewers)

Roverbhoy

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2002
1,840
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
In the continued discussion of what it means to be a champion NT in this day and age...

One of the more irritating things about sportscasters in general is that they perpetuate this perception that underdogs, particularly ones with great defenses, don't deserve the credit for winning as much as their opponents are guilty of playing poorly.

I could see that argument for the first Portugal-Greece match, as Scolari fielded too much deadwood that he had since corrected. But I heard a lot of comments about how Portugal played poorly yesterday. Aside of a bit of very poor set piece defense (that cost them the title), I would disagree. But even more annoying is that I heard the same of France when they played Greece, I heard the same of the Czech Republic when they played Greece, etc.

Comon! How many coincidental strings of "poor performances" of opponents do you need as evidence that maybe one of the primary reasons those teams looked bad was because Greece made them look bad? The same was true with Porto and the CL this year.

No wonder so many people think that this Euro sucked and that a team like Greece doesn't have legitimacy to their title. The media helps perpetuate this logic that teams like Greece and FC Porto were lucky and merely caught every successive opponent in an off game on the way to their titles. What a wild coincidence that so many would falter in bad form at the very time they played them. :(

Good post.

You know...I watched most of the games on interactive TV...match sound only, without any commentators, sportscaters, etc.

I thought the Greeks played superior tactics in defence (come on people, who can deny that their back four didn't pull off some great defensive individual performances; haven't Porto just bought their right back?), and looked very dangerous on the counter attack.


Then, later, when I watched highlights with commentators, the entire outlook on the match changed. They had me believing Greece had eleven men behind the ball, and never got over half way in the whole match.

Greece did not play attacking football, I'll grant you that...but that was the only negative point of their performances. They asked players earning fifty times more a year to earn their reputations with displayes of inventive, creative, attacking football, and the opposition failed miserably.


I think any team will struggle to break down Greece in WC qualifying, and they could easily get through to Germany in two years.

Why not folks?:confused:
 

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Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
swag,

There is no doubt Greece deserved to win this tournament. After all they are winners!

However, one must also acknowledge that Greece was also assited by poor performance from the big team, and some run of luck.
What Greece played was a solid, well organized soccer, and they were good indeed. They also have some handy players in their team as well: Dellas, No.7 their captain, both full back, GK and Karagounis are good players. However, never once in the tournament they played at a level that we can call "exceptional". France in the last tournament, for comparison, played some exhillirating football against the Czech, Denmark, and provided us some excellent matches against Spain and Portugal. One has to be kidding that any matches Greece played would equal the excitement and quality of France and Italia of Euro 2000.
Furthermore, lets not forget Greece rode their luck: They played poorly against Russia, and they were two incredible, oh I mean unbelievable misses, away from being knocked out in the group stage and Nedved injury certainly helped them to qualify in the Semi's. I am taking nothing away from Greece because I acknowledge whether big nation or not, every team ride their luck to the finals. Brazil got a dubious call against Belgium in the last WC; Italia were very fortunate to win against the Dutch in the last tournament; Who knows what would have happened had Raul scored a penalty against France in Euro 2000, and had referee not given dubious penalty against Portuguese in the Semi?; France in WC 98 had a scare against Croatian, and Paraguy; Italia in WC 94 were a minute away from suffering indignity of loosing against Nigeria and so forth.
However, just as these teams rode their luck, Greece did as well, and in life everything cannot be dictated by the will and merit alone.
As always, Greek's achievement is a combination of hard work and a bit of luck. The difference is the way in which they achieved they goal compared to previous tournaments.
 

aressandro10

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2003
2,884
++ [ originally posted by AndriesGobert ] ++


Just look at the game the Czech played versus the Greek. The Greek goal was lucky and the Czech Republic should have already scored three times. So Greece was LUCKY , they did NOT deserve to win that game.
Greece took the only chance the got while Czech screw all three they have and still you deny Greece derserved victory? ..man.. u are biased... i bet if its italy in Greeces's place u would bring nothing of that issue....

Neither did Greece deserve to win against France. Again they were LUCKY to get away with it and the fact Henry missed an easy header. No, a team that scores after they've got ONE chance and does not concede after giving away at least THREE good chances to the opposite side does NOT deserve to win.


I'm glad Greece won though, no doubt about that. But we shouldn't hail them as the new football gods, they were lucky and there's no way in denying that. If you do, football just isn't your game, lad.

The Greek players are very limited and not very skilled, let's not forget about that. And sorry guys, football is a game that lives on spectacular actions and beautiful goals. Greece can't take care of that section.

mate.. i dunno who teach you about footbal but they got it alll WRONG.. i would point you to some FIFA .com section about football regulation but i figure you would get all lost in the technical words so i'l just summarise about
the part that you clealrly have difficuluty to comprehend... you see .. to win a football match there things that we call goal wich is technically when the wholel part of ball crossed the goal line... the 2 team must do that to the opponents goal and stop the opponent from doing that to theirs.....the team that succeed the most in doing that WINS..... unlike gymnastics or sychronised swimming its not based on points given by professional judges... ... they just simply decide on goals.. how they do that is not decided ... accept that first before you can say football is not anyone else game......;)


the fact that Greece have limited skill is unrelevant at all... is not how many nutmegs or stepover they make that will make the differnce...hell not even how many shot on goal matters as if they do, Liverpool would have runaway with the EPL title already..... if you already prejudge teams based on their individual skill of each nation, then what the used of having a tournament at all?.. an audition style with the nation that have the most players that can complete certain task wins seemingly would suit your needs better...surely a lot of things that you yourself cant do that you can watch... either that or the circus..... this is a team sport for crying out loud..its how ur implement ur skill or none of it into the team and work to achieve the best result from it....


contrary to your opinion, the entertaiment of the spectators is just a small overhyped factor.. its just the same as how big is the stadium .. or how fast do the cloud move in the sky above... totally unrelevant.. the real matter is the players that plays on the pitch...the real intention is to find the winner from all of europe after all the qualification and final round...and even if you dont beleive it, Greece is that nation.....

let me ask you something, try put yourself in Zagorakis shoes... would you play like somebody else eventhough you dont have the requite skill to do so, and faca the unevitable lost in the qualifying and be left out.. or would you challenge your own fate and play football your own way and qualify and evetuallly become the Champion of Europe?
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
Aressandro, the sole purpose of professional football is entertaining the crowd. That's the only reason it exists as well. So no, entertainment is not a small factor, it's the factor.

Watching from a pragmatic point of view football should be filled with spectacular free kicks, nice dribbles and incredible goals. If it isn't, professional football will disappear. If you deny this, you're just plain stupid.

My dear friend, football is just a game. It won't save you lives and it won't prevent the African starvation. I'm truly sorry I have to blast your entire world vision.

Furthermore we always use the number of chances a team had to decide whether they deserved the win or not. I'm sorry, lad, but that's how it's done. If we look at the number of chances Greece didn't deserve to beat the Czech.

And skill is what I want to see. There is nothing special about people conquering the title because they had a good coach and were passionate. I can be passionate as well and I could hire a good coach too, nothing special about that. No, sir, I do not admire workrate, I only admire talent.

It isn't important who won for the game of football. Yes, that's important to the fans and to the players, but not for the game itself. Again I'll make the comparison with gladiators. I don't know what your education is, but the smallest child can see that football is just a barbaric restover from those days. Just like you probably.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
Yeah, Aressandro..the Czech had three chances and the Greek had one, so I MUST be biased if I say the Czech deserved it more :D.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++


you convineiently left out which team score more from their chances ;)
That's just incredible, you're not pretending, you really are that stupid. Goals equal the result. Chances equal whether the result was deserved or not. That's how it's been done, aressandro, or at least how it has been done for the past fifty years. People will decide whether is was deserved or not based on the number of chances.
 

aressandro10

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2003
2,884
people decide the who deserve the win more from the hard work they do to achive the win... and the Greek have work hard on each of their win agaist the Portugal , Czech , Spain and France....funny how you were so emphasizing about chances when all of those teams were all so dry of idea from where they can get goals against the Greek.. their patince and diligence to their gameplan is outstanding... thats why they deserve the Cup more from other team...

and please let off the stupid comment... i have deal with you arrogant blatant stupid short sighted selfish idea with respect untill now, dont make yourself lower than u already are.....
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
Look, time after time after time I've heard people say Italy didn't deserve anything because they created so little chances. I'm just doing what they do, that is judging teams by the chances they create. And Greece didn't create anything.
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
++ [ originally posted by AndriesGobert ] ++
So if I work really hard, I automatically deserve to be European Champion?
If you beat Portugal twice, France, Czech Republic and win the winal, then yes, you do deserve it.
 

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